Euro 2012: Stadiums of hate (panorama)

Discussion in 'Euro 2012 championship' started by tar1984, May 28, 2012.

  1. gabi

    gabi Banned Banned

    The fact that in just one month a BBC team managed to record hours of nazi-saluting football fans and yet when interviewed, the head of the police said he'd *never* seen such a thing and that maybe the fans were 'just pointing' speaks volumes
    _angel_ and october_lost like this.
  2. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

    As I said, if we're going to play the blame game, I feel it lies with the totally corrupt police force out here. You are never going to stomp out racism, you overhear a plethora of racist comments everywhere in the UK, what you can do is make it less visible.

    The visibility boils down to two things:

    a) The police out here are a joke. Cowardly and corrupt. The more "finable" something is out here, the more likely they are to arrest you (and get a pay off). Simply put, if they can't fine you for it and they don't perceive it as serious - nothing is going to be done about it.

    b) Poland never had an empire, so don't really have the history and inevitable guilt that comes with it. This can make it very hard to tackle on an individual scale.

    Having said that the stuff Sol Campbell was saying about coming back in a coffin is a sensationalist sound-bite - you could say the same thing about London at times. If the BBC were that worried about football fans getting into shit, it would have been far better to run with corrupt policing, and what precautions to take as a tourist who doesn't know the law. I suspect that it didn't have enough of a shock factor.
  3. gabi

    gabi Banned Banned

    Um. Not sure where to start with how wrong all that is. Will mull it over.

    Simply put though. The problem's with the fans. Not the police. Not the BBC. The fans.
  4. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

    Racists very rarely change to non-racists. They just shut the fuck up if the ramifications are big enough. I've saw it a few times when I was temping at the prison in the UK. Some dick-head with racist tattoos (one including a lynching!!!) moaning that he couldn't take his shirt off cos he'd get beaten up.

    He was still a racist dickhead at the end of the day. He just shut the fuck up.

    There's plenty of shit that I could pick up with a video camera if I came to London for a month.

    So how do you get racist "fans" to change when there is an easily bribe-able police force quite happy to let you off for £20?
  5. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Apart from that Empire of course.
  6. love detective

    love detective secret pint

    from the baltic to the black sea
  7. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

    I take it you're talking about the Polish-Lituanian commonwealth?

    It's hardly on par with the British, German or French Colonial Empires, of "savages and the civilised".
  8. purenarcotic

    purenarcotic Conveniently Pocket Sized

    Well from Kemp's programe on it, it's the poverty and mass unemployment in his view that seems to encourage the far right views far more than corrupt police.

    Certainly all the far right hooligan fans he visited were living in pretty shite conditions. I expect education will play a role too.

    For sure, if the police do fuck all about it it becomes twice as visible, but I don't think it's the police who are totally to blame here. I am sure it's a whole variety of reasons.

    You just seem to be a bit bizarrely defensive tbh, SBL. My opinion of Poland has not suddenly changed because I watched a half an hour show with some shocking footage. You seem desperate to point out that you know people who aren't white and they don't have a problem. And? Your point is? I know Asian people who've never experienced overt problems here in Birmingham, that doesn't mean that there aren't shocking levels of racism in some parts of the UK.

    Not all of us are going to draw Daily Mail style conclusions about this you know.
  9. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Does it have to be?

    What german empire?
  10. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

    I'll go watch the Kemp thing. It sounds interesting and a bit more honest.

    My main concern was the inevitable conclusion that people will draw about the everyday Pole, and the fact that it will really put people off coming here without strong grounds. Yeah I know Urban isn't exactly the best place to point it out cos you're mainly all decent type chaps, with your thinking caps on. Other forums have not been so kind. A plethora of "send the Poles back home" and other types of ironic nonsense.
  11. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

    I think it does if you're going to look at tackling racism in different countries or if you're going to be looking at attitudes to other races and how it affects racism policies. You cannot compare a monarchistic commonwealth between two countries located in Europe, to the modern baggage that come with a colonialist empire. If you're going to tackle something effectively, then you have to take into account the history of the nation.

    The colonial one.
    iROBOT likes this.
  12. goldenecitrone

    goldenecitrone ubi sunt

    Bismarck's heart wasn't really in it though.

  13. Dhimmi

    Dhimmi Half Man Half HobNob

    Understandable but if you're going to worry about what idiots think you're in for a lot of worrying.
  14. pppPenguin

    pppPenguin Well-Known Member

    What websites are those? EDL, NF?
  15. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    BT i think
  16. pppPenguin

    pppPenguin Well-Known Member

    There's a trend I've noticed on the websites I use, people defending Poland and Ukraine assume all Brits see all Poles and Ukranians as racist, which is obviously a wide presumption in itself.
    _angel_ likes this.
  17. pppPenguin

    pppPenguin Well-Known Member

  18. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    I know loads of really, really sound Poles, and many of them have been active in fighting racism and fascism.
    sunny jim likes this.
  19. Skimix

    Skimix Well-Known Member

  20. tar1984

    tar1984 write a song, i'll sing along

    Classic denial and deflection tactics from ukranian authorities. I thought that police chief was maybe a loose cannon but now the top official?

    There might end up being no trouble. I'm sure they'll have security locked down for the euros in a way it wouldn't be for domestic football. But denying there is a problem seems a bit far fetched.
  21. gabi

    gabi Banned Banned

    the fuck

    er.. i must've been going to some very PC matches, coz i cant see ive ever seen a swastika at a game
  22. sim667

    sim667 Licking windows on the 303 bus.

    Im not sure why 'racism in football in the ukraine' has suddenly come as a big shock to me........ I thought most of the old eastern block countries had a large far right following which spilled over into football :confused:
  23. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    That gag went down well till they found out that the kid was a jew - cue 3-day riot by both sets of fans.

  24. friedaweed

    friedaweed Sitting down for a wee

    There's a thread about hooliganism don't you know :)
  25. starfish

    starfish No dialogue. Just plot.

    A Polish colleague of mine, who watched the programme, claimed that the people with the White Power banners/flags etc, did it because the wear white tshirts. He said if they wore blue tshirts they would have Blue Power banners/flags etc. Not sure how truthful he was being but he is going back for the tournament & he's a Lech Poznan fan. He also said thatthe trouble in Poland was nothing like that shown in the programme, the Ukraine on the hand.
  26. PlaidDragon

    PlaidDragon We don't need money to have a good time

    I may be way off on this (having never been to Poland/Ukraine) and if I am call me a clueless cunt, but my take is this: once the Berlin wall fell, the ex-Soviet countries were exposed to a level of multiculturalism and immigration that had previously not been an issue at all. In this instance, I'd opine that these countries are about 20/30 years behind "us" in accepting and welcoming (as they should be) immigrants to their country. Can anyone really say that the disgusting racism in these countries is that different to what was seen on the terraces here in the 70's/80's?

    I think that exposure to a multicultural tournament comprising players of many nationalities and ethnic origins can only be a good thing in raising awareness of the benefits of multiculturalism. Of course there are some straight out fascist cunts, but they can just fuck off into a hole. Hopefully the majority of football fans in Poland and Ukraine will stop ignoring these vile bigots because of numbers, and rise up and smash them off the terraces.
    tar1984 and southside like this.
  27. gabi

    gabi Banned Banned

    wtf? 'blue power'? :D:facepalm:

    did he also think the people in the terraces giving out hitler salutes and shouting seig heil were 'pointing at the opposition fans' as the chief of police believes?
  28. southside

    southside Banned

    Oh dear!
  29. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Maybe we misheard them. Perhaps they were all keen ornatholigists, simply pointing out the seagulls.
  30. tar1984

    tar1984 write a song, i'll sing along

    Maybe they were fans of the 'power rangers' and simply paying tribute to the white power ranger
    sunny jim and Dhimmi like this.

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