Euro 2012: Stadiums of hate (panorama)

Discussion in 'Euro 2012 championship' started by tar1984, May 28, 2012.

  1. paulhackett

    paulhackett voiced by strother martin

    Same thing they thought when they gave Russia (or any country gets any event) the World Cup.. money.

    There'll be another Panorama in 2018..
  2. friedaweed

    friedaweed Sitting down for a wee

    Plenty of info on this on the 'Official' Euro 2012 Hooligan thread as approved by Pogo:mad:
  3. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

    As someone who is actually living in Poland at the moment I'd like to add my two pence before people actually buy into this sensationalist piece of claptrap. I've lived 9 months and I fear that the problem is being blown right out of proportion. I see more trouble from British tourists here than any other nationality.

    Hooliganism is a problem in Poland, as it is in many other countries, however I expect what The Great Daily Mail Brainwashed Public will think after this bit of "news" is that Poland is a nation of racists. This is not true - the majority of people here are very accommodating and friendly. I fear however that the damage has been done. I worry about how Sun type readers are going to react to the average Pole in the UK.

    Let's also not forget that not so long ago it was a major problem in England which has only recently been tackled... I remember similar scenes 10 years ago.

    The British have never quite learnt how to shake off the delusion of superiority from the days of the empire, and whilst Poland certainly has issues to address (mainly regarding shit, lazy, corrupt Policing), regretfully, other countries could provide the same analysis of Olympics host city London.

    Over the last 12 months in London there have been; 99 murders, 3325 rapes, and 63,655 Residential burglaries. What is considered normal in Britain isn’t acceptable in other countries.

    Those in glasses houses surely should think twice before throwing stones. I await with glee similar presentations of "The British" in the Polish and European Media come the Olympics.

    I can't comment on Ukraine, but never I expect it's another case of not letting the truth getting in the way of a good story.

    You get idiots everywhere. I hope that the Police will be upping their shitty and corrupt game.
  4. pppPenguin

    pppPenguin Well-Known Member

    The reports of the Polish contingent did seem to be just a minority group of people, opposed to the Ukrainians which seemed to be quite a large group including feined ignorance from the police.
  5. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

  6. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    They did seem to have some quite big banners, though.
  7. Yelkcub

    Yelkcub Well-Known Member

    The Polish chaps that work for me, including a pair of twins from Wroclaw, where one of the stadiums is, say there isn't a massive problem in Poland, but anecdotally they've heard there is in Ukraine.
  8. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

    Yes I'm so sorry you're right. Now I have my glasses on I can see that all Polish football fans are racist. And in fact... so are all POLES. How silly of me not to notice, I do live here after all.

  9. shygirl

    shygirl Well-Known Member

    How come news at 10 didn't refer to the scenes filmed in poland?
  10. love detective

    love detective secret pint

    There is quite a deep rooted cultural anti-semitism in poland though - it may be expressed in an extreme and marginal form through some of the ultras, but it exists in a far more widespread way across polish society, albeit fairly latently - a lot of casual racism as well

    Saying that though, i've been in every city that is hosting games in Euro 2012 across both Poland & Ukraine and in comparison to Ukraine (especially the eastern/russian part), Poland comes across as a bunch of of guardian reading do gooder liberals
  11. shygirl

    shygirl Well-Known Member

    He won't be grinning tomorrow
    He won't be grinning tomorrow, now that they're shitting themselves about the impact the publicity will have on attendance at the games. Little shit.
  12. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    Football hooliganism in Poland definitely became pronounced after the fall of communism, which hit people hard as prices went up and wages didnt. That said even before the end of communism there was armed tension on estates between skinheads, metal heads and the third crew on the block, depeche mode fans (nonviolent)!! IIRC

    Theres a feature on this in the current issue of (new?) antifascist mag Hope Not Hate, which pretty much said exactly what Panorama said, but online there is also this, with regular updates:
  13. pppPenguin

    pppPenguin Well-Known Member

    They did. Also the train station had a nice welcome banner painted on the wall.
  14. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

    Re: Anti-Semitism in Poland.

    I'd agree about the "cultural" anti-Semitism, although from what I observe day to day it's slowly being eroded away. While still fairly prevalent in my mother's generation (mum's from Hungary - and she can be just as :rolleyes:), from what I've experienced the younger generation (age 35 or lower) certainly couldn't give two monkeys about "the jews this... and the jews that..." most of them think it's a load of nonsense and are far more concerned with modern politics, ACTA etc - they are a generation of information and knowledge.

    In fact the class of 14 year olds that I teach recently shut up one of their peers, when he said something a little distasteful in the classroom. I didn't even need to intervene - I was so proud of them.

    Change takes time. But I was deeply upset at the Panorama report. It was totally without any historical base and massively over egged. Seems like the Poles are fighting an uphill struggle.
  15. pppPenguin

    pppPenguin Well-Known Member

    England are playing in Ukraine.
  16. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

    But they're based in Krakow - Poland.
  17. pppPenguin

    pppPenguin Well-Known Member

    True. I guess the trouble just came across as so much more extreme in Ukraine. Different level shit.
  18. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    Thats all sort of true, but as you say its like England was in the past, and that was a problem, just as it is a problem in Poland and needs stamping out. Anti-semitism has a foothold in Poland not just on the terraces but through Catholic radio like Radio Marja - I would say anecdotally antisemitism in Poland has increased in the last 20 years - its not a good trend. No one is throwing stones, just showing what has happened. Your post is slightly toned with 'no need to go on about it, Sun readers will get the wrong impression etc. No, name and shame, great that it was on prime time TV, and lets hope a similarly critical attitude arises in Poland itself. I didnt find it claptrap or sensationalist.
  19. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    Again, kind of true, but it depends who you know
    purenarcotic likes this.
  20. purenarcotic

    purenarcotic Conveniently Pocket Sized

    Ross Kemp's programme on this exact same issue was good because it in part went into that context you mention, SBL. He speculated about the extreme poverty and unemployment and various other factors being a breeding ground for far right views in more detail.
  21. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    and dont forget religion
    purenarcotic likes this.
  22. youngian

    youngian Well-Known Member

    How long has Danny Dyer been producing Panorama?
    You can find firms like that all over Europe. The jew baiting was reminscent of Feynoord and Ajax, but never remember much hassle going to the European cup in Holland and Belgium, except the usual English twats who think its still 1942.
    PandaCola likes this.
  23. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    It's ok. Your anecdotes have convinced me that there is no racism in Poland anywhere, especially not amomgst football fans.
  24. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

    Funny how I've managed to convince you of something I never actually said. Show me where I've said racism doesn't exist in Poland??

    What I said was a) Hooliganism is a problem in Poland
    b) The main problem is corrupt policing
    c) The programmed over-egged the whole "racism in Poland" thing and pretty much painted all football fans and poles to be racist thugs - which is sensationalist rubbish and not true.
    d) The UK could easily be painted in the same way by European media re:riots and crime stats : it's not safe, all Brits are murdering thugs, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story....

    So, here's a pair of reading glasses. I think you might need them.

  25. tar1984

    tar1984 write a song, i'll sing along

    It didn't make me think all poles are racist, just that there is a well-developed hooligan scene attached to polish football. And that racism is fairly prevalent within this scene.
  26. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

  27. gabi

    gabi Banned Banned

    With respect, you are (i believe) an ethnic, white Pole. I'm not sure you're best placed to judge whether racism exists in your country. I'd take the word of an African footballer living there or a group of Indian students studying there over yours.
  28. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! /wɜːst tɜːf ɒn ɜːθ/

    I'm ethnically British/Hungarian. Last weekend I had a Muslim friend come and stay, I've had Greek friends come and stay. No problems... so far. Take the word of whoever you want. But don't take the word of the shit-stirring media.

    TBH, when it comes to Poland I'm more worried about LBGT issues, women's rights, and the total grip that the Catholic Church has on the vast majority of the population.
  29. gabi

    gabi Banned Banned

    I'm not sure the media is to blame for the racist cancer that infects eastern european football. ask any of the black english players who've played in the likes of Kiev, Warsaw or Moscow.
  30. Dhimmi

    Dhimmi Half Man Half HobNob

    It was a miserable viewing experience.

    To be fair the programme did make a point of claiming how most Poles are happy to get along with folk, with the footy firms being the sad exception. Their Police did seem to be useless, even the riot cops took a kicking. Even though the refs could do something as expressed by UeFA I can't see them having the balls, I doubt they'd get out of the ground without grief.

    Here's a vid to take the foul taste out of your eyes;
    friedaweed likes this.

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