EU - vote now

[CyberRose]

Oh come on. In 1973, the referendum played on the fear of loss of food, money and jobs. Within prevailing institutions, whether we’re in-or-out is an each way gamble. You've got to understand that bit at least.

I wasn't alive in 1973 and everyone in politics plays on fear to get what they want...

 

[Carousel]

Ok. But you do understand it. Now, for our next step in the journey towards understanding, can you entertain the idea that there is no such thing as the "public interest" or the "common good"?

 

[CyberRose]

Ok. But you do understand it. Now, for our next step in the journey towards understanding, can you entertain the idea that there is no such thing as the "public interest" or the "common good"?

No actually I don't understand any of your recent posts...

 

[Carousel]

Let me just get this straight. You don't understand that we had a referendum in 1975 on withdrawal from the EU (or Common Market as it was then). That the Tories had already taken us into the union as part of the normal course of government. Further, that this situation put the case for withdrawal at a serious disadvantage due to the fact that fear of loss is a much greater motivator than the anticipation of gain?

Edited to add: Ahh sorry, 1975. Apologies.

 

[Carousel]

Heh not according to Tory types! According to them it's a socialist conspiracy to take over the UK!

Can't both be right!

Apart from the fact they can both be right, or both be wrong. The Tories are majorly (excuse the pun) split on Europe. Indeed, they are under strict instruction to avoid the matter in public.

 

[PAD1OH]

Sorry mate no idea what any of that's supposed to mean...

you took the words out of my mouth.

 

[Carousel]

Meaning: A trite flattery of our beliefs or values.

 

[Azrael]

Apart from the fact they can both be right, or both be wrong. The Tories are majorly (excuse the pun) split on Europe. Indeed, they are under strict instruction to avoid the matter in public.

Another example of why the party seems to be heading for inevitable schism. It seems packed full of people who hate one another, divided over everything from selective education to the death penalty. Social liberals who somehow got lost at selection vs. moral conservatives. It'll be a messy sight when it finally dismembers itself.

 

[Carousel]

History demands it. The Corn Laws.

 

[goneforlunch]

We have a much bigger share of the vote (in both legislatures but obviously in the Parliament politics comes into it a lot more) than the majority of countries (I think we are joint second with France after Germany who has the biggest population). That means the UK's voice is heard louder the most other countries and naturally we have a bigger say in the laws that are passed. Also, if we team up with France and Germany on a partiulcar issue it's very hard for anyone else to get their own way (good for us, bad for them)

The UK is due to get a small increase to 12.2% of the vote in the Council, and in the Commission the number of commissioners is to be reduced. From 2014, only two-thirds of member states provide a Commissioner at any time, with every country taking equal turns. Imagine the grubby horse-trading necessary to get both France and Germany or one of the other big states on our side. (Remember Brown giving up the rebate in the vain hope that the CAP would be reformed?) Equally the other big states could join together to block what 'we' want.

Even if we do get 'our' own way, it wouldn't necessarily be what the British people want, and a future government would have absolutely no power to change the 'way'. Mainstream politicians have become removed from the people as they've grown closer to the EU.

 

[gosub]

how can lies and untruths be a reasoned argument?

Interesting article in Wednesday's Wall Street Journal

 

[trevhagl]

No option for "so far but no further" or "stay in but roll it back".

that would be my vote, ya certainly don't wanna give any more powers to a bunch of cunts who want the UK post office destroyed

 

[jonajuna]

the swiss and the norwegians seem to be ok not being part of the eu... in fact norway has the best of both worlds, they dont pay in, are not (entirely) at the mercy of eu laws, yet have quite funky trade agreements

and the swiss are loaded.. ok i know a lot of that is to do with nazi gold, but.......

 

[jonajuna]

The EU sets laws which member states have to abide by (unless in exceptions they have special permission not to).

i guess the french where having lunch when that bit was explained

 

[Shevek]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8219344.stm



Is it worth it or should the UK give them a big 'get lost' tablet?

Poll on it's way.

Sorry about there not being a comedy option but I wanted to see what you really thought.

why do you care derf you live in indonesia