ETA to resume "struggle"

[guinnessdrinker]

It's interesting that the article (a) claims he's been kept incommunicado but (b) admits that he's had his lawyer and his doctor and is publishing his allegations, presumably made via his lawyer (and/or doctor)! Not very incommunicado then!

obviously he cannot be kept away from his own lawyer! clearly, he cannot see his family, not even under some form of supervision (just in case) and I know very well which side of the political chessboard Gara stands, as was made obvious from my original post. personally, I would not like to be in the hands of the spanish police if they think I am a real baddie. I suspect they're not very different from the french police.....

 

[T & P]

Or any other police force for that matter.

 

[nino_savatte]

You are supposed to wear a very large beret, put your right forefinger into your left ear-hole, hold the little finger of your left hand tightly with the toes of your right foot and hop up and down on your left foot while shouting "Gora ETA! ETA mátalos!". As if you didn't know! Now get on with it. No more prevarication.

Actually, I do wear a Basque beret, thank you very much. However, you don't appeared to have grasped the nub of the argument: namely the fact that a political party - Herri Batasuna - was banned solely for its links with ETA.

How did you regard the media silencing of Sinn Fein in the 80's? IIRC, none of the Loyalists were evere silenced in this way.

 

[JHE]

Actually, I do wear a Basque beret, thank you very much. However, you don't appeared to have grasped the nub of the argument: namely the fact that a political party - Herri Batasuna - was banned solely for its links with ETA.

The nub of what argument? If you are suggesting that ETA's violence is a response to the banning of Batasuna you have an arse-upwards view of the world.

You are, in any case, very out of date on the name. The ETA-associated rad Basque Nats' main organisation has been through various names. At the time of its banning it was, and had for some years been, Batasuna, not Herri Batasuna.

Oh, and as it happens I do NOT think that banning Batasuna is a good thing. It does no good, AFAICS. I do, on the other hand, understand why banning it was a popular policy.

 

[nino_savatte]

The nub of what argument? If you are suggesting that ETA's violence is a response to the banning of Batasuna you have an arse-upwards view of the world.

You are, in any case, very out of date on the name. The ETA-associated rad Basque Nats' main organisation has been through various names. At the time of its banning it was, and had for some years been, Batasuna, not Herri Batasuna.

Oh, and as it happens I do NOT think that banning Batasuna is a good thing. It does no good, AFAICS. I do, on the other hand, understand why banning it was a popular policy.

You deliberately misread my post; that isn't what I said and you know it. Banning anything will result in the banned object or organisation becoming popular.

 

[JHE]

You deliberately misread my post; that isn't what I said and you know it.

Er, yeah, right... Congratulations on your odd headgear. I'm sure you look very fetching.

Banning anything will result in the banned object or organisation becoming popular.

Really? Always?

Let's leave aside your bold general claim, and stick to Basque politics. I don't know any evidence for the idea that ETA-Batasuna have become more popular since and as a result of the ban. Can you provide any?

If there is convincing evidence for that, then personally I'd see that as a good additional argument against the ban.

I think their ceasefire while it lasted probably made the buggers more popular (you know how it is: lots of people disapprove of murder and welcome peace) but now they are not even pretending to be on ceasefire.

 

[nino_savatte]

Er, yeah, right... Congratulations on your odd headgear. I'm sure you look very fetching.



Really? Always?

Let's leave aside your bold general claim, and stick to Basque politics. I don't know any evidence for the idea that ETA-Batasuna have become more popular since and as a result of the ban. Can you provide any?

If there is convincing evidence for that, then personally I'd see that as a good additional argument against the ban.

I think their ceasefire while it lasted probably made the buggers more popular (you know how it is: lots of people disapprove of murder and welcome peace) but now they are not even pretending to be on ceasefire.

"Odd headgear"? Aye, that's only to be expected from someone who probably thinks mullets are vogue.

You have so far failed to come up with a convincing argument for why a political party should be banned - apart from its links to ETA of course. I never said that Batasuna "has become popular after the ban". Please produce the post where I said this. When the PIRA was proscribed by the British government, the ban acted as a recruiting sergeant. Perhaps your memories are more informed by a particular ideology that actual historical fact.

 

[JHE]

You are a confused lad.

I have not suggested the ban is a good idea. Indeed, I have explicitly said I don't think it is.

Stick to modelling berets, you silly sod.

- What d'ya think of that Nino Savatte?
- Wears a good boina - but he's an arsy English loon!

 

[nino_savatte]

You are a confused lad.

I have not suggested the ban is a good idea. Indeed, I have explicitly said I don't think it is.

Stick to modelling berets, you silly sod.

- What d'ya think of that Nino Savatte?
- Wears a good boina - but he's an arsy English loon!

1. I think you're the one who is "confused".
2. I'm not fucking English.
3. Just because you don't suit a beret is no excuse for your juvenile insults
4. You insist on putting words into my mouth.
5. Take your advice and shove it where the sun don't shine, prick.

 

[JHE]

- Apparently, he's an arsy non-English loon.
- Oh...
- The English look after him, though. No one else would have him.

 

[nino_savatte]

Do fuck off and take your silly images with you.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Or any other police force for that matter.

at least, some times, the british police give you a cup of tea in the morning, even a full size english breakfast, I am told. and they say sir, not fuck off.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

You are a confused lad.
Stick to modelling berets, you silly sod.

you're the one who is confused.

this man isn't a basque, as far as I know.

 

[JHE]

That's a nice pic. It's Nino, you know, before his accident.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

That's a nice pic. It's Nino, you know, before his accident.

what? are you saying that you ran into him, in some ways or others? last time, I saw him he was doing fine. are you confusing the subtle art of political debate with bitter arguments spouted from your geriatric bed?

it's time for the nurses to send you back to sleep, methinks.

 

[JHE]

It's a long time since there was any political, or any other sort of, debate on this thread. Nino's loony interjections put an end to that.

And I'm not bitter. So there.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

It's a long time since there was any political, or any other sort of, debate on this thread. Nino's loony interjections put an end to that.

And I'm not bitter. So there.

I am still debating politically, even when faced with nutters like yourself. now, whio is the real loony, here? are you posting such crap because you know you're losing the plot?

 

[JHE]

What political debate are you engaging in?

 

[guinnessdrinker]

What political debate are you engaging in?

the title of this thread is "ETA to resume struggle". I am talking about that, not about basque berets, unless provoked.

 

[JHE]

the title of this thread is "ETA to resume struggle". I am talking about that...

Go on, then.

Hopefully, you have dropped the idea that the recently thwarted bomb plot was not the work of ETA.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Go on, then.

Hopefully, you have dropped the idea that the recently thwarted bomb plot was not the work of ETA.

I never said that it wasn't the plot was the work of ETA, I just urged for caution. also, I still believe that unless they have a mercator supermarket amidst their membership (unlikely), it was only meant to frighten the tourists.

 

[nino_savatte]

That's a nice pic. It's Nino, you know, before his accident.

Pillock.

 

[JHE]

I never said that it wasn't the plot was the work of ETA, I just urged for caution. also, I still believe that unless they have a mercator supermarket amidst their membership (unlikely), it was only meant to frighten the tourists.

You suggested we should compare it with the atrocities of 11-M - i.e., when the daft government claimed the bombings were the work of ETA and (dishonestly) persisted in that claim even after it was obvious to almost everyone else that they were the work of 'slamists.

There are major differences:

- This plot has been thwarted, thank goodness (though there will be further plots, I don't doubt)
- The plot was stopped when an etarra was arrested with explosives and plans (NB an etarra, not a 'slamist)

I quite agree ETA want to frighten tourists. They do that with bombings. Bombs kill and maim. If ETA had succeeded in their plan to bomb a ferry, I hate to think what the toll would have been. It's bloody dangerous to bomb ferries. ETA must know that and even you can see that it is.

They have, as you know, killed many people over the years. They do not, AFAWK, have any ambition to get into the same murder league as the 'slamists of 11-M, but they are not shy of murder.

Did you notice the recent 10th anniversary of the kidnapping and murder of a young PP councillor, Miguel Angel Blanco? Following that murder, there were enormous demonstrations all over Spain, calling for ETA to stop their murders. (I wonder if you would have joined those demonstrations, or shunned them for being too anti-ETA.) Unfortunately, 10 years on, they are still in business.

You really do come across as a soft apologist for ETA. I know you are not quite a supporter of theirs (you've said so), but you go to ridiculous lengths to try to reduce their culpability for carnage - as you did over the horror at Barajas. I'm not having a go at you - just pointing out the obvious about the way you post on the subject of ETA.

If you are concerned with the politics, why not tell us how you would like things to go?

I pointed out earlier on the thread (i) how the objectives of the rad Basque Nats (inc. ETA and Batasuna, of course) are unrealistic and (ii) why I see the whole Basque Nat question as intractable.

How do you see it? Are you more optimistic and what role, if any, do you imagine ETA and Co can play in solving it?

 

[Dillinger4]

I pointed out earlier on the thread (i) how the objectives of the rad Basque Nats (inc. ETA and Batasuna, of course) are unrealistic and (ii) why I see the whole Basque Nat question as intractable.

Just because a political parties objectives are unrealistic doesn't mean the government in Madrid should ban them.

The SNP in Scotland campaign for an independent Scotland, some might see that as unrealistic.

The reason Herri Batasuna are banned is for failing to condemn ETA violence. I think that needs to be made clear.

I believe that there is a future for Herri Batasuna and any other Basque nationalist parties. There will always be a range of views about the future of the Basque region that need to be represented, however unrealistic they may be.

Through the Autonomous process there seems to be a way to find the middle ground between the desires of Madrid and of the Basque people. I saw some research recently pointing to support for ETA falling as more power is transferred to Victoria/Bilbao.

However, there is no space for terrorism in this process. A reasonable outcome can be reached through the Autonomous Process.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

JHE, whether the political objectives are realistic or not is irrelevant. the point is that all ranges of political opinions must be represented. it is true that Batasuna is "banned" (they always come back under a new name, the latest is ANV) because of failing to condemn terrorism, but Sinn Fein was in the same situation, was never banned, there was finally the Good Friday agreement and there is now a working NI assembly. this, to me is the way forward. at least, with Zapatero and the socialists, there is a chance of it happening, but if the popular party comes back to power, there won't be any chance of anything happening. I do not support terrorism, but surely you must see how that situation developed, first under Franco (their first killing was that of a policeman in 1968), and post franco in the revolutionary excitement of the seventies. there is no place for it now, but, as far as I am concerned, the spanish state must talk with everyone, including an unbanned Batasuna, and concede if necessary. and if Rajoy and his mob aren't happy, stuff them. I don't know all the powers that have been devolved to the basque parliament, and the post above, suggests that more powers have been devolved (it's Vitoria, not Victoria), so that's good. a real solution for me is through a referendum, possibly including Navarra or it's basque speaking part, up in the mountains, to consider whether the basque country should remain fully spanish, have some kind of joint sovereinty with Spain (like Andorra), or become fully independent within the European Union.

having said all that, there is the french question.....

 

[disownedspirit]

quoi ?

sorry couldnt resist

 

[guinnessdrinker]

quoi ?

sorry couldnt resist

la bonne reponse est: le pays basque au nord des pyrenees

 

[JHE]

ETA arses try to disrupt the Tour de France:

Small blasts after ETA threat on Tour de France

MADRID (Reuters) - Two small explosions hit part of the Spanish section of Wednesday's Tour de France cycle race after a telephone bomb threat from a caller claiming to represent Basque separatist rebels ETA, newspaper website El Pais said.

No one was hurt and the race was not called off after the explosions, which came after the caller told a highway authority that ETA had planted several bombs along the route of the Tour de France through the Spanish region of Navarre, El Pais said.

The race had already passed through the area when the blasts occurred, it said.​

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL2585261220070725

 

[guinnessdrinker]

ETA arses try to disrupt the Tour de France:

Small blasts after ETA threat on Tour de France

MADRID (Reuters) - Two small explosions hit part of the Spanish section of Wednesday's Tour de France cycle race after a telephone bomb threat from a caller claiming to represent Basque separatist rebels ETA, newspaper website El Pais said.

No one was hurt and the race was not called off after the explosions, which came after the caller told a highway authority that ETA had planted several bombs along the route of the Tour de France through the Spanish region of Navarre, El Pais said.

The race had already passed through the area when the blasts occurred, it said.​

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL2585261220070725

to act like that is a stupid idea. the tour de france is very popular in the basque country, remember Indurain? they're just not thinking clearly.

 

[chainsaw cat]

Pillock.

You use that word you are functionally English.

Sorry, but it's a fact.