nino_savatte
No pasaran!
guinnessdrinker said:
ETA to resume "struggle"
- Thread starter T & P
- Start date
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
Which of my suggestions do you think is fuelled by drink? (tonight's beverages, out of interest, being a bottle each of Merlot and Muscadet, 2 Guinness Export and 2 Guinness Original so far.)
Banning the BNP to wind them up, or banning Sinn Fein for condoning / failing to condemn (and I'll modify it a bit)/ explaining away/justifying murder?
Banning the BNP to wind them up, or banning Sinn Fein for condoning / failing to condemn (and I'll modify it a bit)/ explaining away/justifying murder?
chainsaw cat said:
so far
not even me at my best (and I fully admit to be a specialist on the matter....) would still be able to make sense after all that. this may explain your previous rantings. what about both?
JHE
.
Eta plot to blow up UK ferry foiled
Authorities in Spain say they have scuppered a plot by a suspected member of Eta to blow up a ferry carrying thousands of British tourists.
Authorities in Spain say they have scuppered a plot by a suspected member of Eta to blow up a ferry carrying thousands of British tourists.
Continued: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6774213,00.html
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
zoltan69 said:
FFS
Nobody thinks ETA is a good thing. But banning political parties that might legally represent views is not a good thing either.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
I meant nobody on this thread.
There is a large minority in Euskadi that agree with ETA's ends (however that minority rapidly decreases when asked about bombing campaigns etc). I will try and find the figures for that.
I am just pissed off that people constantly constantly equate Basque nationalism with ETA and terrorism.
There is a large minority in Euskadi that agree with ETA's ends (however that minority rapidly decreases when asked about bombing campaigns etc). I will try and find the figures for that.
I am just pissed off that people constantly constantly equate Basque nationalism with ETA and terrorism.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
chainsaw cat said:
That's more than I drink in a month!
So would you have a problem with the PUP or UDP being banned? They were, after all, connected to the UVF and UDA/UFF respectively, were they not?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Ooops! I just realised that the UDP are no longer in existence. They've been replaced by another set of letters from the alphabet.
JHE
.
Dillinger4 said:
ETA has significant support - probably about 10% of the Spanish Basque Country. (That's about what Batasuna got before it was banned) ETA has no difficulty recruiting from among their young street fighting supporters.
Re their aims: I do wish you, Dill, and others who discuss ETA and the Basque national question would understand what Batasuna, ETA and other sections of the so-called patriotic left of Basque nationalism demand. It is important to understand their ambitions in order to understand how unrealistic they are.
Unlike the mainstream Basque Nats of the PNV, the Rad Basque Nats demand an independent Basque state consisting of: (i) the Spanish Basque Country, (ii) Navarra and (iii) the French Basque Country.
Even if the Spanish and French governments could be persuaded to allow referendums on independence and respect the outcomes, the Rad Basque Nats would not get their way. They would not give up, though - which is rather bad luck for the many people in those areas who are not Basque Nats!
Leaving ETA and their chums aside for a mo, the Basque national question is difficult enough even without the Rad Basque Nats! If there were a referendum just in the Spanish Basque Country, it would be a close-run thing. If the Basque Nats lost, they would conclude that there are too many non-Basques around and the nastier Basque Nats would increase efforts to intimidate their opponents.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
I couldn't agree more, the situation in the Basque country is extremely complex. I think I mentioned earlier I am currently writing a paper on Basque/Catalan Regionalism/Nationalism.
Even the aims of the far more liberal PNV, with the Ibarretxe Plan, have been rejected by Madrid, whilst an almost identical plan for the Catalans was accepted, giving them greater autonomy.
The difference between the two? One used the word 'Nation' and the 'Nationality'.
I am only so bothered by this thread because people seem to assume that Basque Nationalism = ETA and only ETA. It really grates with me. Its the equivalent of saying all Muslims = Terrorists.
Even the aims of the far more liberal PNV, with the Ibarretxe Plan, have been rejected by Madrid, whilst an almost identical plan for the Catalans was accepted, giving them greater autonomy.
The difference between the two? One used the word 'Nation' and the 'Nationality'.
I am only so bothered by this thread because people seem to assume that Basque Nationalism = ETA and only ETA. It really grates with me. Its the equivalent of saying all Muslims = Terrorists.
JHE said:
what were they saying after a certain 11th of march? it does not sound like their modus operandi.
JHE
.
guinnessdrinker said:
The man arrested is Arginzoniz Zibiaurre Aritz. Apparently, he is a known etarra. If someone called, say, Abdul Shahid Jihaad al-Wan'qa had been arrested in the same circumstances instead, I would doubt ETA's involvement!
According to a couple of reports I have seen today, this is not the first time ETA has planned to bomb a ferry. The last attempt, apparently, was a few years ago and the target was a ferry on the Valencia-Balearics route at the height of the summer. Luckily, the car with the bomb broke down in Huesca and missed the boat.
Whether the plan then or now was really to kill thousands of people is another matter. My guess is that they'd settle for killing some people, holing the ferry and having other people escape from the ferry in lifeboats or by helicopter.
I think you will agree that damaging Spain's tourist trade has long been part of ETA's campaign. Making people frightened of going on ferries would achieve that, IMHO.
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
nino_savatte said:That's more than I drink in a month!
So would you have a problem with the PUP or UDP being banned? They were, after all, connected to the UVF and UDA/UFF respectively, were they not?
'Course not. Ban the bastards.
JHE, to me it sounds more like planting a bomb on a ferry, then issue a warning, giving enough time for the police to neutralise the bomb, but giving a jolt of fear to the spanish tourist industry. I don't think we were on the way of a new mercator supermarket or IRA 70s style UK mainland bombing campaign. I'd still go to Spain and the Basque Country on a ferry or whatever mode of transport available to me without any fear or thoughts about it.
JHE said:You remember the large bomb just before the new year in a multi-story carpark at Barajas? Result: Two dead and and loads destruction.There was a warning for that, too.
are you suggesting that the ETA was targeting 2 equadorian immigrants, that they knew they were in there, and that's why they bombed the car-park? did the police not react fast enough because they did not think there were life in danger, perhaps? they too would not have known about the immigrants in the car park.
JHE
.
Obviously they knew people would be around in a massive fuckin' airport carpark. Obviously they knew they were endangering lives. Obviously they knew what they were doing when they put a bloody great big bomb there.
To try to blame the police for the deaths, as ETA and their apologists have tried, is utter shite. If you bomb a multi-storey car park and kill people you are a fuckin' murderer. And if you excuse people who do, you are a twat.
To try to blame the police for the deaths, as ETA and their apologists have tried, is utter shite. If you bomb a multi-storey car park and kill people you are a fuckin' murderer. And if you excuse people who do, you are a twat.
JHE said:
I am not excusing people who do, BTW.
JHE said:
you're repeating yourself like a broken record. can you come up with something more original?
JHE said:
they're not my chums. Batasuna should be given full freedom of expression and political freedom, without resorting to legal battles to defend alternative parties who act as political fronts for banned Batasuna.
guinnessdrinker said:
and they still have political power. I have just read in a june edition of el pais how they took control of 43 councils in recent elections as ANV. admitedly, it is 10 councils less then they had as Euskal Herritarrok, a few years ago. still, not bad for a party that has been starved of the "oxygen of publicity".
JHE
.
Spanish Court orders imprisonment of Aritz Arginzoniz Zubiarre
07/14/2007
In a court judgment anti-terror specialist judge Baltasar Garzon ordered that, who was detained Tuesday at a bus station in the northern city of Santander, be detained until charges are drawn up.
A Spanish National Court judge ordered a man suspected of belonging to the armed Basque group ETA to jail on Saturday pending official charges.
In a court judgment anti-terror specialist judge Baltasar Garzon ordered that Aritz Arginzoniz Zubiarre, who was detained Tuesday at a bus station in the northern city of Santander, be detained until charges are drawn up. In the same judgment Garzon ordered warrants for the arrest of two other ETA suspects.
"I order the pertinent national and international arrest orders, effective as extradition or European detention orders, for Eneko Zurrabeitia Salterain alias "Sorgin" and Saioa Sanchez Iturregui," the judgment said.
Arginzoniz Zubiarre, who the interior ministry said was carrying a pistol, a timer and false identity documents when he was arrested, had drawn attention to himself because of a backpack he was carrying when arrested. When officers moved in to identify him, he told them he was a member of ETA.
Press reports said Arginzoniz Zubiarre had details of at least two potential targets in his possession at the time of his arrest, one a courthouse in Santander and another the ferry linking the port city with Portsmouth in Britain.
07/14/2007
In a court judgment anti-terror specialist judge Baltasar Garzon ordered that, who was detained Tuesday at a bus station in the northern city of Santander, be detained until charges are drawn up.
A Spanish National Court judge ordered a man suspected of belonging to the armed Basque group ETA to jail on Saturday pending official charges.
In a court judgment anti-terror specialist judge Baltasar Garzon ordered that Aritz Arginzoniz Zubiarre, who was detained Tuesday at a bus station in the northern city of Santander, be detained until charges are drawn up. In the same judgment Garzon ordered warrants for the arrest of two other ETA suspects.
"I order the pertinent national and international arrest orders, effective as extradition or European detention orders, for Eneko Zurrabeitia Salterain alias "Sorgin" and Saioa Sanchez Iturregui," the judgment said.
Arginzoniz Zubiarre, who the interior ministry said was carrying a pistol, a timer and false identity documents when he was arrested, had drawn attention to himself because of a backpack he was carrying when arrested. When officers moved in to identify him, he told them he was a member of ETA.
Press reports said Arginzoniz Zubiarre had details of at least two potential targets in his possession at the time of his arrest, one a courthouse in Santander and another the ferry linking the port city with Portsmouth in Britain.
From: http://www.eitb24.com/new/en/B24_57...MEMBER-ETA-Spanish-Court-orders-imprisonment/
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
So? It's a cut and paste, what are we supposed to do?
JHE
.
You are supposed to wear a very large beret, put your right forefinger into your left ear-hole, hold the little finger of your left hand tightly with the toes of your right foot and hop up and down on your left foot while shouting "Gora ETA! ETA mátalos!". As if you didn't know! Now get on with it. No more prevarication.
http://www.gara.net/azkenak/07/28795/es/El-juez-Baltasar-Garzon-envia-prision-Aritz-Arginzoniz-que-denuncia-malos-tratos
unfortunately, I appear not to be able to give a snappy title for this alternative pro batasuna link.
ha permanecido incomunicado en manos de la Policía española.
no one has access to him apart from the police, Judge Dredd Garzon and his lawyer.
En concreto, ha dicho que ha sido golpeado en los testículos,
nice! he's been kicked in the bollocks! (as well as other things for which my castillan is rather limited).
unfortunately, I appear not to be able to give a snappy title for this alternative pro batasuna link.
ha permanecido incomunicado en manos de la Policía española.
no one has access to him apart from the police, Judge Dredd Garzon and his lawyer.
En concreto, ha dicho que ha sido golpeado en los testículos,
nice! he's been kicked in the bollocks! (as well as other things for which my castillan is rather limited).
JHE
.
Gara is a paper ETA often uses to claim responsibility for bombings and so on.
He says he's been thumped in the bollocks.
In brief:
He's been detained and kept incommunicado. He's accused to belonging to an armed group and possession of weapons and explosives.
The court has ordered the detention of three other people, at least one of whom has to be caught first.
Aritz Arginzoniz has refused to plead in court, where he has the help of his own lawyer, and has claimed to have been ill-treated by the police. He claims they have hit him in the bollocks, the hands and the face, punched him on the chest and threatened him that they'll harm his family and partner.
He says the blows have been with an open hand so as to avoid leaving marks.
He has refused food and drink offered to him by the police.
He also says the police medic has not examined him thoroughly, but he has his own doctor who has.
So... maybe he's been ill-treated or maybe he's a lying ETA propagandist.
It's interesting that the article (a) claims he's been kept incommunicado but (b) admits that he's had his lawyer and his doctor and Gara is publishing his allegations, presumably made via his lawyer (and/or doctor)! Not very incommunicado then!
He says he's been thumped in the bollocks.
In brief:
He's been detained and kept incommunicado. He's accused to belonging to an armed group and possession of weapons and explosives.
The court has ordered the detention of three other people, at least one of whom has to be caught first.
Aritz Arginzoniz has refused to plead in court, where he has the help of his own lawyer, and has claimed to have been ill-treated by the police. He claims they have hit him in the bollocks, the hands and the face, punched him on the chest and threatened him that they'll harm his family and partner.
He says the blows have been with an open hand so as to avoid leaving marks.
He has refused food and drink offered to him by the police.
He also says the police medic has not examined him thoroughly, but he has his own doctor who has.
So... maybe he's been ill-treated or maybe he's a lying ETA propagandist.
It's interesting that the article (a) claims he's been kept incommunicado but (b) admits that he's had his lawyer and his doctor and Gara is publishing his allegations, presumably made via his lawyer (and/or doctor)! Not very incommunicado then!
Similar threads
