ETA to resume "struggle"
- Thread starter T & P
- Start date
Gingerman said:
it was more of one off and they realised they fucked up badly. I mean, it's catalonia!
Gingerman said:
but their targets were military, police, politicians. who was the first man killed by ETA in 1968, he! and as already mentioned franco's prime minister or the alleged attempt on the king. there would, of course, plenty of inside fighting and maybe civilians go caught, but targeted?
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
guinnessdrinker said:
Yes, targetted. You put a bomb in a street ('cos you is too chicken to shoot it out with the target's bodyguards and die like a hero) and bystanders will be killed. And you know it, and accept it.
That's why ETA,IRA etc are cunts.
All the talk about what they do for their people, but they fucking skulk about with car bombs - wankers.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Gingerman said:
Which they regretted. They do not have a policy of deliberately targeting civilians.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
No, nowadays they see them as just 'collateral damage' nino. The Americans don't (always) set out to specifically murder Iraqi civilians either though that doesn't stop most people giving them the shit they deserve.
The reason ETA didn't repeat the Hypercor bombing was because of the immense wave of repulsion it generated even amongst separatists and many ETA supporters. Had the reception to the bombing been different you can bet your house they would still be doing it.
And of course there is the permanent threat of them taking that further step since. Two years ago they exploded a bomb outside the Bernabeu 2 hours before a Madrid-Barcelona game. That time they gave prior warning so the area was evacuated beforehand. But the message to the Spanish government was clear...
Add all that to the extortions and death threats directed at shopkeepers and businessmen in order to extract money from them or the kidnappings and killings of prison officers and members of the public who happened to be members of the Popular Party and suddenly ETA does not seem so concerned about about civilians does it.
The reason ETA didn't repeat the Hypercor bombing was because of the immense wave of repulsion it generated even amongst separatists and many ETA supporters. Had the reception to the bombing been different you can bet your house they would still be doing it.
And of course there is the permanent threat of them taking that further step since. Two years ago they exploded a bomb outside the Bernabeu 2 hours before a Madrid-Barcelona game. That time they gave prior warning so the area was evacuated beforehand. But the message to the Spanish government was clear...
Add all that to the extortions and death threats directed at shopkeepers and businessmen in order to extract money from them or the kidnappings and killings of prison officers and members of the public who happened to be members of the Popular Party and suddenly ETA does not seem so concerned about about civilians does it.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
STFC said:
The Spanish Government is remarkably adept at controlling public opinion about the Basque country, especially to those outside of Spain.
We have all heard of the atrocities committed by ETA. But how often do we hear about the fact that Spanish Law enforcement still routinely uses torture, and even now there are cases of prisoners dieing in custody. When people think of Basques, they think of the seventy or so ETA commando's. But there is no consideration for what the 15,000 Guardia Civil are doing to Basques in the Basque country.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/aug2005/span-a22.shtml
What about the murder of Basques by GAL, Illegal death squads set up by parts of the Spanish Government to deal with ETA?
There was no public apology or explanation for this. There was no outcry about the murdering of innocent civilians by actual criminals, bankrolled by the government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupos_Antiterroristas_de_Liberaci%C3%B3n
How about the banning of Herri Batasuna?
The problem with Spain is that it has inherited the structure of a fascist state with very little change to this structure.
Nobody within the state structure has been brought to justice for atrocities during the Franco era. Many of these people are still in positions of power. especially in the Army and Gaurdia Civil. It is useful for these institutions to have an enemy like ETA.
It seems to me at least, that when considering this situation, people almost always take the word of the Spanish Government at face value, without any use of their critical faculties.
Just to point out once again, I am not endorsing ETA or terrorism in any form. Its about time people recognized that the Spanish government is committing state terrorism as well, and that it takes two for a situation like this to be perpetuated.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Gingerman said:
Well, perhaps you can tell me why Herri Batasuna has been banned. Aren't they a legitimate political party?
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Yes, and maybe somebody could offer an explanation of the use of torture by the Gaurdia Civil.
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2007/jun/02spain-torture-and-ill-treatment.htm
Or maybe the lack of Habeas Corpus within Spanish Law:
http://hrw.org/reports/2005/spain0105/7.htm
http://hrw.org/reports/2005/spain0105/1.htm
And during this time, as a Basque, you are put in a special prison, run entirely by the Gaurdia Civil, facing physical and psychological torture, without even being charged with a crime.
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2007/jun/02spain-torture-and-ill-treatment.htm
Or maybe the lack of Habeas Corpus within Spanish Law:
http://hrw.org/reports/2005/spain0105/7.htm
http://hrw.org/reports/2005/spain0105/1.htm
And during this time, as a Basque, you are put in a special prison, run entirely by the Gaurdia Civil, facing physical and psychological torture, without even being charged with a crime.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Gingerman said:
As has already been pointed out: this was a one off; a mistake and ETA admitted this. Perhaps you'd like to deal with some of the points raised by Dillinger4?
It was ONE supermarket iirc, it was hardly a series of supermarket bombings that spanned a couple of decades.
JHE
.
It got a bit squeezed out of the British media, what with all the recent problems with incompetent Islamonut bombers in London and Glasgow, but ETA has been back in action... sort of. Yesterday a warning was given that a bomb had been planted at Ibiza Airport. There was great disruption. The airport was closed for over three hours. Thirteen flights were diverted. Thousands of people were inconvenienced. But no bomb was found.
Gingerman said:
would you have banned Sinn Fein?
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
guinnessdrinker said:
I would. Cunts.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
chainsaw cat said:
Okay, on that basis, would you ban the BNP?
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
No. The BNP are cunts, but that's not why I'd ban Sinn fein. I'd ban the bastards 'cos they are up to their beady eyes in 30 years of murder.
The BNP couldn't organise a bombing campaign if you gave them the keys to the Semtex factory and a big bag of balaclavas.
On second thoughts, yeah, ban the BNP. Who'd give a fuck?
The BNP couldn't organise a bombing campaign if you gave them the keys to the Semtex factory and a big bag of balaclavas.
On second thoughts, yeah, ban the BNP. Who'd give a fuck?
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
The people who think that banning political parties is a step towards something awful?
I don't see how banning political parties doesn't encourage further terrorism.
BTW, ETA is banned in Spain and rightly so, it is a terrorist organization. But banning Herri Batasuna, a political party with support from at least a minority of Basques.
Its far better in any situation like Northern Ireland or Euskadi, to have a poltical party in existence that represents some of the more extreme views.
As Lyndon B Johnson once said, its much better to have them inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in.
So personally, no, I wouldn't ban Sinn Fein or Herri Batasuna because they are political parties, not criminal organizations. But terrorist groups such as the IRA or ETA, deserve to be fought against. Calling them terrorist is wrong. They are criminals.
I don't see how banning political parties doesn't encourage further terrorism.
BTW, ETA is banned in Spain and rightly so, it is a terrorist organization. But banning Herri Batasuna, a political party with support from at least a minority of Basques.
Its far better in any situation like Northern Ireland or Euskadi, to have a poltical party in existence that represents some of the more extreme views.
As Lyndon B Johnson once said, its much better to have them inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in.
So personally, no, I wouldn't ban Sinn Fein or Herri Batasuna because they are political parties, not criminal organizations. But terrorist groups such as the IRA or ETA, deserve to be fought against. Calling them terrorist is wrong. They are criminals.
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
I'd ban the BNP just to wind the fuckers up.
The people who think that banning political parties have a point, but where do you draw the line?
The legalise rape party?
The kill-the-gays Alliance?
The compulsory euthanasia for blacks and Unionist party?
Everyone (nearly) would draw it somewhere.
I'd draw it at a party that condoned - or failed to condemn - murder.
And the BNP 'cos they are cunts.
The people who think that banning political parties have a point, but where do you draw the line?
The legalise rape party?
The kill-the-gays Alliance?
The compulsory euthanasia for blacks and Unionist party?
Everyone (nearly) would draw it somewhere.
I'd draw it at a party that condoned - or failed to condemn - murder.
And the BNP 'cos they are cunts.
why do you think there was a Good Friday Agreement?chainsaw cat said:
Gingerman said:Er no,where did I say anything about banning Sinn Fein ?
I didn't say that you had talked about Sinn Fein, I only mentioned them by way of comparison.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
chainsaw cat said:
Lay off the drink, mate.
nino_savatte said:
the stella is too strong for him. he should try some proper ale instead.
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