English Democrats Party to stand in Welsh Assembly elections

[Dic Penderyn]

by the way Newport really, really isn't that violent, it's just
a) we want to scare away people from our fine city
b) cardiff is soft as shite and thinks everywhere is violent.

 

[Stephen Gash]

EDIT: It's possible to not be a nationalist and support this federal vision - the EDP are nationalists and show signs of right-wing thinking on other issues - that doesn't mean that a federal system is of itself nationalist - it is however certainly anti-state.

EDIT 2: That whole bit about Monmouthshire is clearly nationalist shit stirring by the EDP though - although its fair enough to have a referendum.

Left wing and right wing are outmoded concepts. The only criticism that has been levelled at us is our policy on a points system for immigration - which has been introduced this week by the Labour Government for non-EU citizens.
As we offer the English electorate a referendum on EU membership then this would more than likely be extended, to present EU citizens outside the UK.

We cannot be described as right wing. I would sooner have an Englishman like Ian Wright standing shoulder to shoulder with me for England than the Scots and Welsh "British" MPs voting through legislation which impoverishes England when compared to the other parts of the laugably named United Kingdom.

Welsh Nationalists have been stirring in English matters for decades regarding Cornwall, so it is a bit rich to accuse us of doing a bit of stirring ourselves.

Alex Salmond has been doing the same, and if he does it again we will be reminding the Shetlanders of their Nordic roots and suggesting they could become an oil rich Dubai of the north, if they were independent.

The English now have a nationalist party willing to fight for England and to use the same tactics employed by other nationalist parties against England, but in reverse. Any whining about English nationalism is frankly risible.

Sauce for the goose springs to mind.

England and Englishness have been attacked with impunity - until now

I remind everybody, the title of the campaign is "Letting Monmouthshire Decide" which should have been the case in 1972.

It would sem that devolution has exposed the fact that a sense of fair play is not a "British" characteristic, but an English one.

Please name me a law that selectively disadvantaged Wales compared to England before devolution.

 

[Idaho]

Yeah but surely some basic polling of the electorate in Monmothshire would suggest that you haven't got a hope in hell. So why choose this?

This bit looks like an awkward cut and paste from a list of quotes:

We cannot be described as right wing. I would sooner have an Englishman like Ian Wright standing shoulder to shoulder with me for England than the Scots and Welsh "British" MPs voting through legislation which impoverishes England when compared to the other parts of the laugably named United Kingdom.

Other than the statement struggling to maintain any cohesive internal logic, it doesn't really make much of a statement about your stance on right and left.

What is your policies about recent curtailing of Trade Union rights?

 

[llantwit]

England and Englishness have been attacked with impunity - until now

Awww, boo fucking hoo. The poor English being picked on by everyone.

 

[Idaho]

Watch it welshy - you'll be queing up on Offa's Dyke with begging bowls once we cut you loose

 

[llantwit]

Not once we turn the water off, I won't!
Half of Birmingham'll be crawling to us gasping parched pleas for mercy and offering us free Cadburies chocolate.

 

[Idaho]

Hehehehe... water - about the only thing abundant in Wales - with the possible exception of unsolicited violence

 

[llantwit]

........[punches Idaho and wanders off for drink]

 

[Belushi]

Anyone know how Mr Gash did in the elections?

 

[pembrokestephen]

Anyone know how Mr Gash did in the elections?

Mr Gash doesn't appear in the results listings for any of the 3 areas.

But the "ED" results were as follows -

Monmouth - Ed Abrams, 804 votes, 2.7%
Newport East - Michael Blundell, 429 votes, 2.2%
Newport West - Andrew Constantine, 634 votes, 2.7%

So, a consistent showing, even if it was consistently shit.

ETA: Went to http://www.englishdemocraticparty.org.uk/ to try and find out a bit more. Their website is an object lesson in garishly horrible design - they sounded like amateurs already, but the website makes them LOOK like amateurs, too...

 

[Idaho]

Mr Gash doesn't appear in the results listings for any of the 3 areas.

But the "ED" results were as follows -

Monmouth - Ed Abrams, 804 votes, 2.7%
Newport East - Michael Blundell, 429 votes, 2.2%
Newport West - Andrew Constantine, 634 votes, 2.7%

So, a consistent showing, even if it was consistently shit.

Tbh I am amazed they got that many votes. That's actually a pretty good showing considering how bizzare it was for them to stand in those areas.

 

[pembrokestephen]

Tbh I am amazed they got that many votes. That's actually a pretty good showing considering how bizzare it was for them to stand in those areas.

Well, maybe it was a combination of stupid people, expat nutter English, and more stupid people.

If the crappy website is anything to go by, this party's probably no more than a gang of misty-eyed old men hankering for the days of Empire, sorting out Johnny Foreigner by giving him a taste of cold British...er, sorry, English steel, and The Few. I mean, "fighter squadrons", ferfuxache??? I'm surprised their policies didn't include compulsory cricket, and village greens in every London postcode area.

Idiots.

 

[Idaho]

As me and a few others have said, it is a shame they are so crap, as there is a kernel of a decent idea behind the concept of a progressive English nationalist party. Instead it has been taken up by these odd folk as a petulant 'told you so' to the devolution movement.

 

[pembrokestephen]

As me and a few others have said, it is a shame they are so crap, as there is a kernel of a decent idea behind the concept of a progressive English nationalist party. Instead it has been taken up by these odd folk as a petulant 'told you so' to the devolution movement.

I can't agree. What they seem to be after is some idealistic and hopelessly unachievable return to days of yore. There's any number of eurosceptic parties, if that's your bag, and the idea of suddenly cutting loose all the provinces is laughably stupid, in any case. We can "honour our gracious Queen" without having to join a political party that even tells those interested to go and vote UKIP in any case, and any outfit that talks of "ships of the line" and "fighter squadrons" has been spending far too much time watching "They Also Serve" and "Battle of Britain" style films.

World calling English Democrats - the Hun are on OUR SIDE NOW

 

[Idaho]

You misunderstand me. I don't think they have any decent ideas, but the general concept of a progressive English nationalist could be a good one. If Wales, NI and Scotland are moving toward independance, then it is only sensible that England create an image of itself to move forward with. It can't go on being the sad remains of an old empire. It does still have things to do.

 

[pembrokestephen]

You misunderstand me. I don't think they have any decent ideas, but the general concept of a progressive English nationalist could be a good one. If Wales, NI and Scotland are moving toward independance, then it is only sensible that England create an image of itself to move forward with. It can't go on being the sad remains of an old empire. It does still have things to do.

Fair point. I re-read your post and realised I'd missed your premise.

Actually, I probably missed it because I think the idea of a separatist Wales, NI, Scotland is a bit of a dumb one, and I fell into my prejudicial "aww, look at pwoar England, wowwying about being left out, pwoar ickwle lion" attitude when I think I see people griping about it (which I'll accept you probably weren't).

I think the kind of independence the provinces mostly have is a great one, but I really do believe that our heritages are so intertwined that separatism isn't the way to go: the way to go is for England (in particular) to start recognising the debt and the honour it shares to be partnered with the countries it is. I'd add the RoI to that, too - these are all peoples who, despite our differences, have fought for, with, (ok, and occasionally against) us, share so many of our ideals (and brewing techniques), and whom we have both supplied and been supplied by with all the essentials of existence. They have taught our children, as we have trained their adults. They have written our songs, as we have sung theirs. We're siblings, really, and all it takes, I think, is for the English (in particular) to stop seeing our countries as some outfit that deserves all kinds of things, and accept their existence in conjunction with the provinces, as equals on all kinds of bases.

And let's leave the petty-minded nationalists and those who MUST see difference everywhere they look to their tawdry agendas and centuries-old slights. We don't need that crap any more...

 

[Idaho]

I generally agree with that. I would probably take the analogy of syblings a bit further. I think these islands have more tribes than just those lumped together under the titles of the 4 nations. I think that there are sometimes sharper differences within England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland than between them.

 

[pembrokestephen]

I generally agree with that. I would probably take the analogy of syblings a bit further. I think these islands have more tribes than just those lumped together under the titles of the 4 nations. I think that there are sometimes sharper differences within England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland than between them.

*nods*

 

[Karac]

Tbh I am amazed they got that many votes. That's actually a pretty good showing considering how bizzare it was for them to stand in those areas.

Not really
Blundell, Mike ............Eng Dem 429 (2.16%)
Constantine, Andrew....Eng Dem 634 (2.68%)
Abrams, Ed..................Eng Dem 804 (2.72%)

Beany, Captain..........Bean Party 840 (4.09%)
I reckon anyone could get 2-3% of the vote with a few leaflets and a bit of publicity

 

[Idaho]

Not really
Blundell, Mike ............Eng Dem 429 (2.16%)
Constantine, Andrew....Eng Dem 634 (2.68%)
Abrams, Ed..................Eng Dem 804 (2.72%)

Beany, Captain..........Bean Party 840 (4.09%)
I reckon anyone could get 2-3% of the vote with a few leaflets and a bit of publicity

I suppose in that context...

Although he was a joke candidate - so is going to get more than a misguided 'serious' candidate.

 

[lewislewis]

Fair point. I re-read your post and realised I'd missed your premise.

Actually, I probably missed it because I think the idea of a separatist Wales, NI, Scotland is a bit of a dumb one, and I fell into my prejudicial "aww, look at pwoar England, wowwying about being left out, pwoar ickwle lion" attitude when I think I see people griping about it (which I'll accept you probably weren't).

I think the kind of independence the provinces mostly have is a great one, but I really do believe that our heritages are so intertwined that separatism isn't the way to go: the way to go is for England (in particular) to start recognising the debt and the honour it shares to be partnered with the countries it is. I'd add the RoI to that, too - these are all peoples who, despite our differences, have fought for, with, (ok, and occasionally against) us, share so many of our ideals (and brewing techniques), and whom we have both supplied and been supplied by with all the essentials of existence. They have taught our children, as we have trained their adults. They have written our songs, as we have sung theirs. We're siblings, really, and all it takes, I think, is for the English (in particular) to stop seeing our countries as some outfit that deserves all kinds of things, and accept their existence in conjunction with the provinces, as equals on all kinds of bases.

And let's leave the petty-minded nationalists and those who MUST see difference everywhere they look to their tawdry agendas and centuries-old slights. We don't need that crap any more...

Every analysis of Scottish and Welsh nationalism seems to miss the point of our aspirations for independence. This is probably our fault (the nationalists' that is) !

Gwynfor Evans developed Plaid's idea of independence, in which we'd be completely independent of London rule, ruling ourselves. But in that respect, we'd also be independent to co-operate with London (whereas at the moment the relationship between Wales and London is not fully co-operative), including such things as remaining a member of the Commonwealth (and keeping the Queen- although personally i'd love to see the old bitch gone) if the electorate voted for it, having a customs union (which would be essential to Gwynfor's vision, that the borders would be open between Wales and England and we wouldn't need new passports, which would divide our nations further) and generally working together with the United Kingdom.

Under this scenario, Wales obviously wouldn't be a member of the United Kingdom, but we'd still geographically and culturally be part of a wider British idea, there could be room for a 'British Union' within the EU, which would work out alot more fairer and proportional than the current (dis)United Kingdom we have!

Hope that maybe clears something up? The idea that Welsh nationalism comes from real political goals and the needs of our country today, rather than starry-eyed 19th century sovereignty concerns!

 

[Brockway]

I generally agree with that. I would probably take the analogy of syblings a bit further. I think these islands have more tribes than just those lumped together under the titles of the 4 nations. I think that there are sometimes sharper differences within England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland than between them.

Well Ireland, Scotland, and Wales could be seen as siblings but not England. If you wanted to personify England it would have to be as a bullying German lodger who barged his way into your home and decided to stay.

As for tribes the Anglo-Saxons would have more in common with other Germanic tribes than with us.

 

[Idaho]

Well Ireland, Scotland, and Wales could be seen as siblings but not England. If you wanted to personify England it would have to be as a bullying German lodger who barged his way into your home and decided to stay.

As for tribes the Anglo-Saxons would have more in common with other Germanic tribes than with us.

I realise that is an attractive notion held dear to many in the 'celtic' nations, but the science of genetics and movement of human populations tends to tell a vastly different picture.

 

[Idaho]

As for tribes the Anglo-Saxons would have more in common with other Germanic tribes than with us.

And where do you think the various celtic tribes came from? Atlantis

 

[lewislewis]

Does that really matter, looking at Wales and England today?

If I look at the two countries I can see they both desperately need to govern themselves. Independence.

I don't give a shit about tribes at all. Does anyone on the street care about tribes anymore? It is great history and of course to know about Welsh politics you have to understand the history of Wales, but nowadays birth doesn't always correlate with nationality.

Welsh nationhood is now in the conscience rather than through an accident of birth, which is why Plaid for example has Welsh people in the Assembly now who were born in Pakistan, Newcastle, Colchester etc. Welsh national consciousness is alive and growing.

 

[Idaho]

I agree completely. It's sad that some welsh people still cling to a negative identity of 'not-English' rather than constructing something meaningful anew.

 

[lewislewis]

I agree completely. It's sad that some welsh people still cling to a negative identity of 'not-English' rather than constructing something meaningful anew.

The Welsh identity is by and large a positive one which has indeed been constructed anew during this and the previous century.

It is however fully understandable that some Welsh people feel marginalised and feel that their language is being threatened by incomers (whatever their nationality) moving into areas dominated by the Welsh language, and not learning to speak Welsh.
Any migrant, economic or otherwise, should be welcomed into their community but should only expect this welcome if they're prepared to learn the local language. This applies as much to parts of Wales as it does to Spain, France etc where people from the British Isles (probably including Welsh people, funnily enough)) also sometimes disregard the native tongue.

If we resolve this issue, and also correct the relationship between Wales and London (Wales needs to be treated seperately, not as part of some phantom 'England & Wales' entity), Welsh-English bitterness will be confined to the sports field.

 

[Idaho]

Any migrant, economic or otherwise, should be welcomed into their community but should only expect this welcome if they're prepared to learn the local language. This applies as much to parts of Wales as it does to Spain, France etc where people from the British Isles (probably including Welsh people, funnily enough)) also sometimes disregard the native tongue.

Do you think migrants to England should be obliged to learn english?

 

[lewislewis]

Do you think migrants to England should be obliged to learn english?

Yes I do, although the English language is not under threat in the same way as Welsh, it is essential so that migrants can access the various services they're entitled to. When walking down a street I would love to hear many different languages being spoken

 

[Brockway]

I agree completely. It's sad that some welsh people still cling to a negative identity of 'not-English' rather than constructing something meaningful anew.

Well you would said that - you are the colonizer.

I think it's great myself. It's always good to remind the English that they are of Germanic descent and that they are an interloper, colonizer nation.

Maybe those whining Chechens should just get on with being Russian? How about the Basques, perhaps they should put their culture to one side and concentrate on being good, obedient Spanish citizens? I would say it's crucial to both that they define themselves by stressing their difference to the coloniser.