English Democrats Party to stand in Welsh Assembly elections
- Thread starter lewislewis
- Start date
liampreston
Spend time, not money
The Annexation of 1536 made all of Cymru part of England, and the only difference between Gwent and the rest was that it was put in a different court circuit. Other parts, added to existing English counties, are still not represented in the Assembly. I wish people could be persuaded to read some history before they expose their ignorance in public.
This doesn't read like a dodgy history lesson to me, Stephen
This doesn't read like a dodgy history lesson to me, Stephen
Stephen Gash
New Member
Anyway gotta go
Idaho
continuity character
Stephen Gash said:
Again a good point and an important issue. So would you propose signficant increases in nurses wages? And how would you pay for such increases?
Students can't claim benefits over the summer months I'm afraid. Would you propose allowing them to if there was a dip in the agricultural sector - the sector you would encourage them to work in?
Now this is where the problem lies Stephen. Half of London's homeless are reportedly from Eastern Europe. Which report?
The cost of people living in a house is insignificant on a national scale. We could perhaps re-jig the entire tax structure in order to tax immigrants in crowded houses, but I doubt if it would reduce anyone's tax bill by even a pound. And such a restructure would be extremely expensive to implement.
The polarised bellowing you refer to, alas, seems something you are regrettably party to. You are waving ill-defined, but legitimate problems and then proclaiming even more ill-defined solutions to them. You are doing the politician's trick of telling us about a problem that none would deny, and then claiming that you therefore have the solution that none would deny.
Stephen Gash
New Member
A quick reply then I've really got to be off
http://www.24dash.com/news/1/12523/index.htm
Now the obvious response will be to shoot the messenger, but that doesn't help. A sensible immigration policy should be drawn up on need, not on crude market forces.
On the question of England's borders, we naturally will retain the integrity of England and will insist on maritime borders being reassigned according to international law. Anything Gordon Brown negotiates on England's behalf will be reviewed, more than likely.
Our goal is a federal UK with full national parliaments. Once achieved anything after is a matter for England.
The questions about Cornwall and other English counties applies equally to other parts of the UK, most notably the Shetland Islands, here all the oil is. So Alex Salmond had better think twice before coming down to Cornwall to talk about its status within England if he doesn't want reciprocal questions asked about the Shetlands. well, that's only fair isn't it?
The English were never asked about devolution. We never let the screaming genie out of the bottle. The dangers of devolution were made clear before Scotland's referendum. Yes we all now have to live with the consequences.
Labour and the Lib Dems could not have handled devolution worse if they had tried. Prescott, fool that he is, assumed we would vote for the destruction of England. Then for Labour to tell us we don't exist and England is not a nation was like a red rag to a bull.
The Liberal Democrats were as bad. Charles Kennedy to Scottish Liberal Democrats said "in England devolution is moving at such a pace that it is bringing into question the very existence of England itself". This may not be verbatum but its meaning is crystal clear.
In the relatively short time I've been actively campaigning for an English Parliament, I've seen calls for England's independence rise from being next to nothing, to approaching half. And still Labour and the Lib Dems say everything is OK.
The Tories started it all in the 70s and also foisted regions on us.
Anyway, I really do have to go.
http://www.24dash.com/news/1/12523/index.htm
Now the obvious response will be to shoot the messenger, but that doesn't help. A sensible immigration policy should be drawn up on need, not on crude market forces.
On the question of England's borders, we naturally will retain the integrity of England and will insist on maritime borders being reassigned according to international law. Anything Gordon Brown negotiates on England's behalf will be reviewed, more than likely.
Our goal is a federal UK with full national parliaments. Once achieved anything after is a matter for England.
The questions about Cornwall and other English counties applies equally to other parts of the UK, most notably the Shetland Islands, here all the oil is. So Alex Salmond had better think twice before coming down to Cornwall to talk about its status within England if he doesn't want reciprocal questions asked about the Shetlands. well, that's only fair isn't it?
The English were never asked about devolution. We never let the screaming genie out of the bottle. The dangers of devolution were made clear before Scotland's referendum. Yes we all now have to live with the consequences.
Labour and the Lib Dems could not have handled devolution worse if they had tried. Prescott, fool that he is, assumed we would vote for the destruction of England. Then for Labour to tell us we don't exist and England is not a nation was like a red rag to a bull.
The Liberal Democrats were as bad. Charles Kennedy to Scottish Liberal Democrats said "in England devolution is moving at such a pace that it is bringing into question the very existence of England itself". This may not be verbatum but its meaning is crystal clear.
In the relatively short time I've been actively campaigning for an English Parliament, I've seen calls for England's independence rise from being next to nothing, to approaching half. And still Labour and the Lib Dems say everything is OK.
The Tories started it all in the 70s and also foisted regions on us.
Anyway, I really do have to go.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Stephen Gash said:
I wouldn't take the jokes about your name seriously at all, in posting on this forum just realise it can be a bit silly, urban75 isn't a serious political website it's more of a cultural site, but there is good debate here if you look for it.
Ok so I don't think you're loons or right-wing nutjobs, in fact your ideas about fiscal powers for Wales, elected public officers, and promoting national identities instead of the phantom 'British' identity, are valid and progressive to an extent.
On Europe we clearly disagree, and also on immigration. I don't think you're a suspect group or racist in that respect but I do think you're on the right, although some of your propositions are reasonable.
Then again, England does stray to the right whereas Wales strays to the left, so maybe it is a legitimate expression of Englishness that England's nationalist party opposes the EU ?
A key difference between your stance and Plaid Cymru's is that the EDP is the English party, representing the English identity only, whereas Plaid is not the Party of the Welsh but the party of Wales, representing all of the identities within Wales (as well as protecting the original Welsh culture and language etc). Maybe you would broaden your appeal if you embraced all of the cultures in England (even if they weren't born there) and united them underneath that banner?
But Stephen mate I still think the Monmouth stuff is a load bollocks
spend those election resources in England instead. But we can't ban you so have a nice election, you'll almost certainly lose your deposits.I dare you to try and canvass Newport in the election, and tell the people on the doorstep that you want Newport to become part of England. This really is an insane venture! Have you ever been to Newport/Casnewydd?
Your standing in Wales means people in Wales won't take you seriously, and will even take a dislike to you.
It's sad that this will do serious damage to your party's credibility, when England needs a proper independent party.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
There is also a huge contradiction here that Stephen's England (not apparently representative to the England envisioned in the mainstream) wishes to take territory off other countries like Wales and Scotland. You don't see the nationalist movements in Wales and Scotland ever demanding territory. The EDP seems to encompass outward nationalism, probably as a legacy of the British Empire that England ran. As much as i'd love to see a progressive national party in England, the EDP isn't it, it is a parochial and right-wing organisation that is missing out on a huge opportunity.
Really, Wales HAS to advance to full powers for our Assembly before we get even further drawn into the shambles of Britain.
Really, Wales HAS to advance to full powers for our Assembly before we get even further drawn into the shambles of Britain.
Idaho
continuity character
That far I would agree on. I think it is a sound principle. But then you charge off the point here. Stick to a principle rather than hunting the myriad degrees of hypocracy you are bound to find in other politicians:Stephen Gash said:
If you are in favour of regional self determination, then say so and Cornwall and Shetland can have their vote. If you are against it, then fair enough, but don't confuse things by bringing Alex Salmond's too-ing and fro-ing into it.
This comment I find very odd. It sounds as if the notion of an English parliament and a set of regional assemblies is not based on any principle but a petulant response to Welsh and Scottish Devolution. If you believe in devolution and seperate parliaments, then be in favour of it. Why are you trying to propose it on the back of some imagined attack on Englishness? Such a line will doubtless sell well on the front of the Mail, but it is intellectually vapid.
Surely when Charles Kennedy said "in England devolution is moving at such a pace that it is bringing into question the very existence of England itself" what he would mean was that England would now have to justify itself as an independent nation without Scotland, Wales, NI and maybe Cornwall. Surely that's what you want? You should be shaking the man's hand.
You see Englishness and England as a thing under siege, something diminishing that needs to be defended. You see an English Parliament as spiteful revenge against devolution, not as a positive opportunity. I get the impression you would be happier with the United Kingdom as it was in 1960.
It's the wrong mindset. There is no greater political and intellectual dead-end than hankering after the past or clinging on to some half-remembered idea that never really was. Put forward a positive agenda. See an English Parliament as something you actually believe in, because from where I am sitting it seems that I am more convinced of it than you and you are standing for election under that banner.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
And of course restricting your candidates to England would be a big bonus
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Idaho said:Yeah exactly. I mean the sensible thing is to get elected in England, then simply overun Wales and take what you want
Like the good old days where England conquered territory from Wales...oh wait a minute that's what Stephen Gash wants !
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Idaho said:
Exactly
, the border existing nowadays should be based on people's consciousness, rather than some historical anomalies. If we're rearranging the UK based on history then crikey, we've got some work to do. For starters, didn't all of Ynys Prydain belong to the Welsh? If the people of Newport and Monmouthshire consider themselves part of Wales (which they do), why should they join England.
I bet the EDP candidates aren't from Wales and are from the north of England or somewhere. The only real explanation for this is that they have never visited Newport in their lives. It's not even as if Newport is heavily 'anglicised', it is a Welsh city through and through, about 13% of Newport's folk even speak Welsh. Do they not know about Caerleon? Newport's contribution to Welsh industry? The GLC? Nathan Blake? St. Cadoc?The poet W.H Davies of Pillgwenlly? I am convinced Stephen Gash has never been to Newport and knows nothing of it's history. What conceivable grounds are there to claim Newport is English?!
Ben Bore
Member
I don't know if the English Democrats have stood in England at any level yet, but standing in Wales is just going to provide ammunition to those who want to mock it (rightly or wrongly)
I have sympathy with English nationalists and enjoy reading the posts (if not the comments) on the Campaign for an English Parliament blog (unrelated to the EDP).
It is a bit nuts that Scotland, Wales and England have three different levels of governments within one state. But as far as I know, the call for a proper English parliament only goes back a few years (after Welsh and Scottish devolution), while there have been calls for Welsh/Scottish Parliaments since the end of the 19th century.
I have sympathy with English nationalists and enjoy reading the posts (if not the comments) on the Campaign for an English Parliament blog (unrelated to the EDP).
It is a bit nuts that Scotland, Wales and England have three different levels of governments within one state. But as far as I know, the call for a proper English parliament only goes back a few years (after Welsh and Scottish devolution), while there have been calls for Welsh/Scottish Parliaments since the end of the 19th century.
Stephen Gash
New Member
Geoff Hoon said that Englishness could perhaps be taught in English schools during the World Cup. He agreed that Britishness would only be taught in English schools.Idaho said:
That's ramming Britishness down English children's necks as far as I'm concerned.
Stephen Gash
New Member
Here's the Questiontime debate about "Britishness" starts about 39.15 mins in and the point about "Britishness" being taught only in English schools at 45.45 mins
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6300000/newsid_6301700/6301717.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6300000/newsid_6301700/6301717.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm
Idaho
continuity character
Hardly comes close to qualifying as a 'ramming'. Sounds like the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland don't feel that they have any place to sanction or direct any notion of English nationalism (be it a benign form or otherwise).Stephen Gash said:
I can't see why you would expect them to to be honest. Obviously the state is going to promote some notion of state unity, rather than the culture of one region of that state.
If the regions, or countries of the union did formally detatch then it would be fair enough, until they do, it would probably be, at best, uncouth, at worst unconstitutional.
Do you not believe in democracy craig? Would you remove their right to pay for this billboard?
Why didn't you do something craig? What did you do?
Idaho
continuity character
ddraig said:a fucking ukip towable billboard was outside county hall in Cardiff today giving it 'vote ukip and abolish the Welsh assembly'odious cunts
Why so cross about it? It's called democracy. A strange system where people are actually allowed to have opposing views believe it or not.Idaho said:
Craig
can be cross about whatever he chooses. If I saw the BNP holding a demo, for instance, I'd be miffed - wouldn't you? Even if I recognised their right to do so.
