I'm not suggesting that physical confrontation is a product of macho posturing. To my mind it is a perfectly valid tactic but one which would be counter productive in this case.
English Defence League in Birmingham today (4th July)
- Thread starter FreddyB
- Start date
I'm not suggesting that physical confrontation is a product of macho posturing. To my mind it is a perfectly valid tactic but one which would be counter productive in this case.
Neither are you, what is your point in coming along doing what you are doing, oh that would be it judge the working class by there past not there present, so all who voted BNP are what racist or fascist, or people who have been fucked over so often they see the likes of The BNP as some form of salvation?
Have you come along to simply displace me and anything I have to say, likewise it was a misfortune meeting you to be frank, there are some who just are CUNTS are you one of them?
More of what I was saying, but for some people such action is nothing more than macho posturing and like wise to perfectly valid tactic, but sometimes we need to understand the right and wrong use of such means.
Pickman's model where would you like me to move onto? simple fuck you i aint going anywhere and will not live in fear of people like you.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
it would be a brave (and very very stupid) man who came along and tried to displace you from your position on urban as the good doctor's replacement.
as to your first point, i'm not judging the working class, either by their past or their present, nor do i believe that everyone voting bnp's a nazi.
Spion
I hear ya
I think you're being extremely pessimistic.
The EDL may want a street brawl but they don't want a beating so the very real possibility of getting one is the only thing that will keep these scum from trying to provoke things.
And how do you do that? Mobilise as widely as possible among anti racists and among Asian youth to get as big a turnout as possible to confront them.
Call me old fashioned but whenever there was a NF presence planned for the streets of Brum we did our best to get as many people there to intimidate the shit out of them - and it largely worked.
it would be a brave (and very very stupid) man who came along and tried to displace you from your position on urban as the good doctor's replacement.
Well I noticed in later posts you linked to Lancaster Unity, who seemed to think they are a bunch of football thugs.
The football type chanting of ''ingerland'' seems to indicate they come from football.
Most of them will not know much about politics, more of a dislike of Muslims, and a chance of a ruck.
So any one physically confronting them, will be giving them what they want.
And being football thugs, they will be well used to physical confrontation. Will anti fascists who want to take them on, be as experienced in street fighting as they are?
Agreed, ive said for years these are the very experienced in street fighting anarchist need to win over to our side what they do not know about taking on the state ie The Police is not worth knowing, this the far right will no doubt understand as much as some anarchist understand, ive no doubt this is where this is coming from ie The Far Right being clever at how they are working, we need to understand this and engage with football thugs a term I do not agree with in the whole but in this context right to use, fuck me think on having this lot at the G20 on our side, lets begin the conversation not confrontation?
They've always been seen as willing tools of the far right.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Not always at all. There have been anti fash football crews and no doubt if the left meant anything in working class communities there would also be left football crews.
Quite frankly I think if the police knew there were going to be massed ranks of football hooligan types at G20 rather than just a few lentil-wielding hippies, they'd cack their pants...
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
If we think back the original grouping around this was the UBA ,patriotic yes , football supporters yes, anti muslim probably but based on their perception that muslim = extremism,nazis they are not. The events in Luton where the Islamic far right picketed the troops homecoming then allowed the likes of Paul 'Lionheart' Ray in .Ray who claims to be an ex drug dealer who converted to being a Christian is a fanatical anti muslim and BNP supporter who lives near Luton.Local street opposition to the protests came from both black and white youths and also in a different way from local muslims. There is no doubt a heady volatile cocktail here in which we have on one side what was the UBA lot who at worst can put out fifty or so but as it snowballs will also have some local ties through football in not just Brum but in most cities.They will be backed by those on the neo nazi far right who will be attracted to them like flies to shit despite the fact that they aren't all white.There is a problem for the neo nazis in that some elements of won't have anything to do with them and the neo nazis will be more scared of them.There iss also a problem for the UBA lot in that the larger the protestss the more they could lose the anti nazi position if some of the more BNP types like Paul Ray soften the situation.
On the other side we have Islam4UK who are small but have the ability to mobilise in a number of cities gullible youth in the same way the far right can . Those who see anti fascism as turning up to oppose the far right physically could turn up in numbers, there is a liklihood that some local muslim youth will see the UBA/March for E protests as a potential attack on them and will be egged on by both the anti fash and no doubt comments from the UBA/March for E protests.
This could be Oldham mark 2 ie an irrelevant and marginalised group protest , the anti fash decide they are the real fash not the BNP, it all kicks off , support for either side become racial not political and meanwhile the BNP reap the votes in .
I agree with Freddy anyone with any sense should stay well clear.
On the other side we have Islam4UK who are small but have the ability to mobilise in a number of cities gullible youth in the same way the far right can . Those who see anti fascism as turning up to oppose the far right physically could turn up in numbers, there is a liklihood that some local muslim youth will see the UBA/March for E protests as a potential attack on them and will be egged on by both the anti fash and no doubt comments from the UBA/March for E protests.
This could be Oldham mark 2 ie an irrelevant and marginalised group protest , the anti fash decide they are the real fash not the BNP, it all kicks off , support for either side become racial not political and meanwhile the BNP reap the votes in .
I agree with Freddy anyone with any sense should stay well clear.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
They would be dealing with exactly the same sort they deal with every saturday match day and in most town centres in the evening at the weekend.I think you would also find that there were a number who would be up for it and that the Midlands police and surrounding forces would have every resilience for coping with what they would see as potential serious disorder.
Trying to harness people seeking violence for your political cause is stupid and will only lead to more conflict. Even the US miltitary now realise its a battle for hearts and minds that counts. Stay away and these idiots will help discredit the BNP turn up and the BNP will distance themselves and you will end up looking like the violent unreasonable ones in the eyes of the population.
Perhaps, but i have seen full riot police lose it and the football thugs both sides turn on them was quite good to see a bunch of riot police being run down the road, indeed i know some people who are football thugs there involved to have a go at the police, some even say there anarchsit, a lot to gain if we talk.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
This is what finally brought down Milosovich in Serbia. Otpor had rallied again and as usual they fled to their cafes after the riot police laid into them but Red Star Belgrade supporters had turned up mob handed and fought back. It regime couldn't last any longer after that.
Spion
I hear ya
What are you going to say to them?
As someone posted here already if we(whoever we are) had a presence/concrete support in communities then the support of elements such as these within those communities could be relied on in instances when confrontation with the police happened and I don't mean G8 style set pieces.
Trying to get the support of these people on their own as a distinct group would potentially alienate us from the wider community or be a pointless diversion at best.
If anything needs to be said to the people involved with the EDL it's an explanation of how they fit into what's happening in the UK today, how they're being manipulated and by who. That the lines that have been drawn for them race/religion etc. are a smokescreen obscuring their class position and common interest with their perceived enemies.
An IWW style "One Big Firm" doesn't strike me as the most useful thing we could have.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Apart from being the wrong colour and different, yeah! - and Eliotts Bistro is chain isn't it?
edit: actually, the sign might be same just looking different due to top being cut off/light making it appear to be diff blues.
edit: actually, the sign might be same just looking different due to top being cut off/light making it appear to be diff blues.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Racists drink in a pub where they know there's a racist landlord? What's the story?
Paul Marsh
NeitherWashingtonNorMecca
How camp is the lad on the back left of the first BFF photo! 
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
It's the same pub Inspector Clouseau. The window of the pub is the same with a sign stuck to it which is the same.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
The BNP connection to a bunch of sieg heiler's I suppose?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
As i said, big deal. Racists in a town drinking in a pub that they know their politics isn't going to be challenged in. Hold the front page! Obviously this means that the BNPs turn towards serious community politics of the last decade is now over - it's war on the streets, weimar mark 2, get the guns out etc
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Silly boy.
These gangs do appear to have some relationship with some BNP members.
I'm not going to get upset, as you appear to do, about some exposing that connection.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
How camp is the lad on the back left of the first BFF photo!
I'd ask Nicky Crane, but he's been dead for years.
I'm guessing it something to do with the EDL website being registered by a BNP activist and the links this alludes to between them being further reinforced by using the same pub.
The EDL use this pub?
Similar threads
