England - What to do?

[muser]

LOL

How many of that '98 team played last night?

France have built a hugely successful youth academy at Clairefontaine and with it completely restructured the way football operates in that country.

England have apparently tried to do the same ...but have failed because the English are inherently arrogant and superior. They still have remnants of that 'British Empire' view of how they see themselves and the rest of the world. They still think they are a world footballing power and so have lacked the balls and the grace to overhaul the way they look at football like the French have done ...and who afterall, also had a very flakey history in terms of winning international football matches before the mid 90's.

The French have, since the mid 90's, become a genuine world footballing superpower.

The English could do a lot worse than copy them ...and whilst they're at it, kick out all those crusty old farts at the FA too. But they won't because they are too arrogant and cannot see their own faults ..and so will bumble along, aplogetically, as best they can.

The whole game needs a revolution. Has done for a long time.

Either that ..or fans, the media, the players and the FA should shut the fuck up about ever winning anything.

here here. Good show

 

[muser]

My answer to everything is wenger. Not for the england job (he has said he would never do it), but for the academy. Let him appoint the people he wants, and give him unlimited funds. Failing him, get hinddink. These are the only visible people, I know ,who can do the job. There must be others out there that have an intimate knowledge of footballing technic and mental discipline.
To answer the OP, we drop gerrard, lampard and carrick. Bring in anyone with pace and PROVEN technic on the ball, plus positional sense a la J.cole.
England has these players within its shores, just a matter of finding them.

 

[Phenol]

Its the fault of the players innit.

these are the same bunch of wankers who threatened to strike cos on their Bling mates was caught bang to rights avoiding a drugs test

The same Bunch , whos erstwhile leader - Mr Beckham - announced he was resigning the captaincy - how fuckin gracious of him - I didnt realise that captaincy was endowed for life or until retirement from full national duties ?

The same bunch of fucks who argued that their vulgar one dimensional girlfriends come along for the trip to whatever finals

The same fucks who most likely advised their weak and greedy Swedish manager what would be best for the team & who should be included in their squads - for fucks sake, Your manager even consulted brain dead Beckham before matches!

IM sorry, but they dont care, are too well fed and rich and pumped full of the imbecilic shit that the redtops churn our about them - they fuckin believe this tiresome jingoistic shit and think that the Johnny foreigners will treat them with the respect they deserve.

Where next ? YOu need to fail to qualify for a tournamant or two to dump the dumb egotistical wasters and get a bit of hunger back in the team. For fucks sake, every time I seem to pick up a paper on the eve of a game, I seem to be bombarded By Philip Neville lecturing everyone in that Droning North Western voice of his - these people shouldnt be given any chance to air their limited thoughts and boost their own ego. Its appalling shite.


You could have Peter fuckin Sutcliffe manageing the team and they should play well - they are not children, they should be able to organise & motivate themselves on the pitch withour needing a manager having to do it for them

You have been treating them as adults for too long.I know thats sounds terriblem, but they need to realise once agian gthat is is a privilige to be selected for your country ( and Im not getting all nationaliostic here ) - its not a fuckin right.

Anyway, Im Scots, so why should I care

*stands up and leads a standing ovation*

 

[Neva]

Its the fault of the players innit.

these are the same bunch of wankers who threatened to strike cos on their Bling mates was caught bang to rights avoiding a drugs test

The same Bunch , whos erstwhile leader - Mr Beckham - announced he was resigning the captaincy - how fuckin gracious of him - I didnt realise that captaincy was endowed for life or until retirement from full national duties ?

The same bunch of fucks who argued that their vulgar one dimensional girlfriends come along for the trip to whatever finals

The same fucks who most likely advised their weak and greedy Swedish manager what would be best for the team & who should be included in their squads - for fucks sake, Your manager even consulted brain dead Beckham before matches!

IM sorry, but they dont care, are too well fed and rich and pumped full of the imbecilic shit that the redtops churn our about them - they fuckin believe this tiresome jingoistic shit and think that the Johnny foreigners will treat them with the respect they deserve.

Where next ? YOu need to fail to qualify for a tournamant or two to dump the dumb egotistical wasters and get a bit of hunger back in the team. For fucks sake, every time I seem to pick up a paper on the eve of a game, I seem to be bombarded By Philip Neville lecturing everyone in that Droning North Western voice of his - these people shouldnt be given any chance to air their limited thoughts and boost their own ego. Its appalling shite.


You could have Peter fuckin Sutcliffe manageing the team and they should play well - they are not children, they should be able to organise & motivate themselves on the pitch withour needing a manager having to do it for them

You have been treating them as adults for too long.I know thats sounds terriblem, but they need to realise once agian gthat is is a privilige to be selected for your country ( and Im not getting all nationaliostic here ) - its not a fuckin right.

Anyway, Im Scots, so why should I care

Those are all reasons not to like the players as people. They've got nothing to do with why they're not doing well as players.

 

[zoltan]

Those are all reasons not to like the players as people. They've got nothing to do with why they're not doing well as players.

Arsy, spoilt, egotistical wankers dont usually play too well IMHO.

 

[jugularvein]

Those are all reasons not to like the players as people. They've got nothing to do with why they're not doing well as players.

spot on in that reagrd though

 

[g force]

Arsy, spoilt, egotistical wankers dont usually play too well IMHO.

Doesn't explain how Italy, France or Brazil won the last few world cups. Fabien Barthez has an ego the size of Marseille.

Those characteristics describe most successful sportspeople.

 

[zoltan]

You seriously cant tell me theres no link between the arrogant mouthy cosseted England team & the fact they have underperform so frequently ?

The difference is that brazil/ italy/ etc know when the reality of performace has to come foremost - The England lot are still brim full of that bloated sense of their own worth even when they need to pull out all the stops .

I would hazard a guess that the English team players gross salaries pretty much dwarf the other squads at the WC - even taking into account the Shevcenkos of this world that earn massively more than their countrymates.

The other big teams usually get stuck in and give it a go. What do England do ? Sulk/ lash out/ Blame the cheating of the opposition/ the divots in the grass .... anythting except take responsibility for their own shit performance

The PL & The vast sums floating around have created this lazy, blame avoidance one dimensional fucks that aways manage to just miss out & its always someone elses fault .

Not dissimilar to British society as a whole ?

 

[Neva]

You seriously cant tell me theres no link between the arrogant mouthy cosseted England team & the fact they have underperform so frequently ?

I think your probably right there is a link but I don't think it's necessarily the be all and end all of England's problems. There have been many teams in the past filled with arrogant and mouthy players that have also been tremendously successful. Look at the United team that dominated the Premiership in the nineties. Cantona, Keane, Schmeichel were all egotistical pricks but they were also fantastic players whom a strong manager was able to get best out of. The current England squad has just as many talents as that United team and just as many arrogant louts but it doesn't have a manager who knows what he's doing and it hasn't since as long as I can remember.

 

[AverageJoe]

I think Zoltans kinda got it, but I think the biggest problem is (and this is a massive problem) that they play for free.

These guys earn obscene amounts of cash at their clubs, are cared for better than Kobe cattle, catered for their every whim, and then the FA put them into these matches without any pay, compensation or comeback if something goes wrong.

I'm not really explaining myself properly, but what I am trying to say is that National Pride just doesnt cut it any more, and I thinnk that players look at Internationals as 'friendly matches' irrespective of the tournament or occassion.

If you worked five days a week in an office, and then the FA selected you to work an extra day for no pay in a different office, you probably wouldnt be that bothered either would you?

I think that the salary cap thing should be employed, and that England matches should carry a bonus - after all its performance related (or should be) and the FA should pay the wages if the player is injured on International duty.

That way the players get their cash, the clubs are covered for owen-esque injuries, the players can commit themselves in the knowledge that they are covered. Everyone wins.

And if anyone thinks that it should be about pride (as I do) you just have to be realistic.

How do you motivate someone earning £100k per week to do something for free?

 

[muser]

Doesn't explain how Italy, France or Brazil won the last few world cups. Fabien Barthez has an ego the size of Marseille.

Those characteristics describe most successful sportspeople.

spot on, try telling some people on here that its not personality but ability and you get the strangest looks.

 

[iROBOT]

AverageJoe
I'm not really explaining myself properly, but what I am trying to say is that National Pride just doesnt cut it any more, and I thinnk that players look at Internationals as 'friendly matches' irrespective of the tournament or occassion.

Agree, I wonder what the main topic of conversation between the Beckams was when he was dropped, his foot-balling career or his projected fiscal losses for the following year?
Just to answer this.

part of but not the problem. how would this be combatted? the reffing in this country?

I'm clueless...! (But reffing would be a start)..

 

[Dhimmi]

Andy!!!
I agree with the lot bar #2. I'd stop all non-British players in domestic teams, it stifles homegrown talent and gives members of other national teams a competitive insight into our players we could do without.

 

[stavros]

I fear any attempt at a Clairefontaine-style national academy would fail dismally because the so-called "big" clubs (they all start the season on the same pointage) would refuse to give up any potential money-generating power. I think we may have not only missed the boat on that one, but also high-tailed it as far inland as possible with the pursuit of cash and the distribution of influence to a select and impossibly wealthy few back in the early 90s with the formation of the Prem and the welcoming of Murdoch.

 

[William of Walworth]

I think Zoltans kinda got it, but I think the biggest problem is (and this is a massive problem) that they play for free.

These guys earn obscene amounts of cash at their clubs, are cared for better than Kobe cattle, catered for their every whim, and then the FA put them into these matches without any pay, compensation or comeback if something goes wrong.

I'm not really explaining myself properly, but what I am trying to say is that National Pride just doesnt cut it any more, and I thinnk that players look at Internationals as 'friendly matches' irrespective of the tournament or occassion.

If you worked five days a week in an office, and then the FA selected you to work an extra day for no pay in a different office, you probably wouldnt be that bothered either would you?

I think that the salary cap thing should be employed, and that England matches should carry a bonus - after all its performance related (or should be) and the FA should pay the wages if the player is injured on International duty.

That way the players get their cash, the clubs are covered for owen-esque injuries, the players can commit themselves in the knowledge that they are covered. Everyone wins.

And if anyone thinks that it should be about pride (as I do) you just have to be realistic.

How do you motivate someone earning £100k per week to do something for free?

In combination with zoltan's post (which has got it spot on, IMO, minus his last line ) this from Joe is an excellent post, and pretty much how I see matters as well.

On top of that, we have iffy management who are not named O'Neill ...

 

[jiggajagga]

I remember ( I think???) many years ago Bill Shankly taking his liverpool side down the mine to see what real life and work was.
Perhaps McClaren should take his players to a mind numbing call centre just to see how lucky they are?

You can not be the best unless you are hungry. Our millionares haven't a clue what real graft is.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I think Zoltans kinda got it, but I think the biggest problem is (and this is a massive problem) that they play for free.

These guys earn obscene amounts of cash at their clubs, are cared for better than Kobe cattle, catered for their every whim, and then the FA put them into these matches without any pay, compensation or comeback if something goes wrong.

I'm not really explaining myself properly, but what I am trying to say is that National Pride just doesnt cut it any more, and I thinnk that players look at Internationals as 'friendly matches' irrespective of the tournament or occassion.

If you worked five days a week in an office, and then the FA selected you to work an extra day for no pay in a different office, you probably wouldnt be that bothered either would you?

I think that the salary cap thing should be employed, and that England matches should carry a bonus - after all its performance related (or should be) and the FA should pay the wages if the player is injured on International duty.

That way the players get their cash, the clubs are covered for owen-esque injuries, the players can commit themselves in the knowledge that they are covered. Everyone wins.

And if anyone thinks that it should be about pride (as I do) you just have to be realistic.

How do you motivate someone earning £100k per week to do something for free?

How do you motivate someone on 100k per week to do something for another 100k? They don't really need the money do they?

And other teams aren't full of players on the breadline. Italy's players aren't on any less than England's and they won the World Cup. I really can't see throwing yet more money at them as helping tbh.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Actually...

he has got the right idea, in terms of bringing new faces in.

Sven may have lost few qualifying matches, but was a tosser ultimately--at least McLaren is responding to a situation.

Not too worried about losing one game--it happens.

 

[Dhimmi]

I wonder what the main topic of conversation between the Beckams was when he was dropped, his foot-balling career or his projected fiscal losses for the following year?

More likely "do these shoes go with this suit and what time is the limo?"

 

[LDR]

Put ChrisFilter up front, problem solved.

 

[Dr. Furface]

he has got the right idea, in terms of bringing new faces in.

Sven may have lost few qualifying matches, but was a tosser ultimately--at least McLaren is responding to a situation.

Not too worried about losing one game--it happens.

Actually, Sven only lost 1 qualifying match, the 1-0 defeat by N. Ireland - and that was after 4 and half years. It's taken McLaren 4 matches. Sven lost a couple of friendlies, but he didn't give a toss about those and would try different things in them, but he wouldn't have gone off to Croatia and played 3-5-2, you can be sure of that. If he was ultimately a tosser, at least he was a tosser who realised that the most important thing is to qualify for tournaments.

Of course, McLaren may yet surprise us all and in 2 years time we might become European champions, but first he has to decide what formation he wants to use and stick to it - no more messing about with Plan B or Plan C, because England's players clearly can't adapt. He came into the job saying that he wanted to play the players in the positions that they play for their clubs, which was a good strategy (and what everyone else wanted too), but he's already dumped that. If it's true that Venables was the one who was so keen on the 3-5-2 idea, perhaps it's time to dump him as well.

 

[jugularvein]

Put ChrisFilter up front, problem solved.

cos mcclaren would be sacked immediately... problem solved

 

[ChrisFilter]

Put ChrisFilter up front, problem solved.

Spot on, can't believe it took 4 pages to get the obvious conclusion