Endogenous Money: BoE shoots the Gov 'Austerity' Fox

[Lurcio]

You're the one making claims about the gold standard.

I'm not clear about the connection between the gold/silver standard and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion ??

 

[8ball]

The rate of £ or $ to the gold ....

Can you change that? I thought the gold standard involved pegging a unit of currency to an agreed currency of gold.

If you can suddenly mess with the units don't the tokens essentially become promissory notes based on an expectation of future redeemable value (what was the word for that again...)?

 

[Lurcio]

I think that arguing for a return to the gold standard is missing a trick. If we returned to a silver based currency we'd have absolute price stability, and a means of making up colloidal silver whenever we liked. Wealth and health sorted!

I agree ... I think a bi-metallic standard is far more preferable than just gold alone

 

[8ball]

I agree ... I think a bi-metallic standard is far more preferable than just gold alone

Like the £2 coins?

 

[Blagsta]

I'm not clear about the connection between the gold/silver standard and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion ??

Just wondering what your thoughts are on it.


Anyway I'm off out to see the mightily angry Sleaford Mods. Have fun while I'm gone.

 

[frogwoman]

I'm not clear about the connection between the gold/silver standard and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion ??

Some of what you have said here comes across as dog-whistle stuff, vested interests, cabals of bankers, sheeple combined with the currency stuff. Maybe you aren't though but there are some dodgy types in the zeitgeist/'alternative' money theories milieu that you should be aware of.

 

[Lurcio]

This is supply & demand, due to lack of building we have a shortage of houses. Yes I know we have 1000s of empty properties but its for governments to decide to requisition these properties to house the homeless, nothing to do with money. For a while the housing market was stuffed because banks reverted to the pre 1980s idea that you don't lend unless the borrower has a reasonable chance of repaying & a 20% deposit does show a bit of commitment. However this mean't nobody could buy houses & government ideology precludes mass council house building so it decides to 'help to buy' by using taxpayers money to underwrite private loans. Again, government. Nothing to do with money. To change things you change the government not change the money.

Why can't we change the government, its financial lobbyists (easier said than done) and move the currency to a form that cannot be sabotaged for the benefit of a few bankers??

Unless you like the idea of having your money, savings and pensions being molested ?!

 

[Lemon Eddy]

Shall we cut to the chase? Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Lurcio ,What's your opinion?

I think we're tending more towards "statute law is contractual" territory.

 

[Lurcio]

Can you change that? I thought the gold standard involved pegging a unit of currency to an agreed currency of gold.

If you can suddenly mess with the units don't the tokens essentially become promissory notes based on an expectation of future redeemable value (what was the word for that again...)?

Should the £ Sterling be pegged back to the gold/silver standard, you would have to set a rate of exchange on entry. Getting that rate right for the condition/state of the economy is crucial. The mere act of setting the rate of exchange wouldn't (in itself) constitute a return to fiat ...

 

[SaskiaJayne]

and move the currency to a form that cannot be sabotaged for the benefit of a few bankers??

Already done. Start by googling 'bitcoin' & read everything about it.

 

[8ball]

Should the £ Sterling be pegged back to the gold/silver standard, you would have to set a rate of exchange on entry. Getting that rate right for the condition/state of the economy is crucial. The mere act of setting the rate of exchange wouldn't (in itself) constitute a return to fiat ...

So once it's been pegged, then when you find yourself in a situation where the economy is stagnant and you've discovered a big seam of gold/silver, what happens?

 

[Lurcio]

Some of what you have said here comes across as dog-whistle stuff, vested interests, cabals of bankers, sheeple combined with the currency stuff. Maybe you aren't though but there are some dodgy types in the zeitgeist/'alternative' money theories milieu that you should be aware of.

I thought the combination of my introductory post and the article that was attached to it would be enough to set the context for the discussion. Apparently, not .... looks like I have establish my "NON-NUTTER" credentials !?

 

[frogwoman]

I thought the combination of my introductory post and the article that was attached to it would be enough to set the context for the discussion. Apparently, not .... looks like I have establish my "NON-NUTTER" credentials !?

I haven't accused you of anything.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

looks like I have establish my "NON-NUTTER" credentials !?

Let's just say that usually when people start talking about gold standards and sheeple, it's a good idea to check.

 

[8ball]

Let's just say that usually when people start talking about gold standards and sheeple, it's a good idea to check.

Yeah, we've had a few of these. It's a 'three tropes and you're out' system these days and you've got two.

 

[Lurcio]

So once it's been pegged, then when you find yourself in a situation where the economy is stagnant and you've discovered a big seam of gold/silver, what happens?

If you've got a stagnant economy with a bi-metallic standard it means you've set the wrong rate of exchange!!

As for stumbling across a hoard of gold and silver, it means you haven't confiscated all the mattresses (as a prerequisite) ...

 

[frogwoman]

People here don't generally take kindly to the politics in much of the gold standard currency crank scene tbh

 

[8ball]

If you've got a stagnant economy with a bi-metallic standard it means you've set the wrong rate of exchange!!

So you set it once and general productivity and prosperity is guaranteed for ever?

 

[8ball]

As for stumbling across a hoard of gold and silver, it means you haven't confiscated all the mattresses (as a prerequisite) ...

Seam. Not hoard. They get it out of the ground. I'm not an economist but I'm pretty confident of this bit.

 

[frogwoman]

Seam. Not hoard. They get it out of the ground. I'm not an economist but I'm pretty confident of this bit.

I dunno about that mate. There's a pretty big hoard of gold and silver in my kitchen just next to the toaster, just next to where we keep the nanothermite.

 

[Lurcio]

I now understand why the forum has nowhere to post a thread on finance/economics?

Its a shame ... there is a vast reality that dominates our political and economic direction but some of my fellow members regard that as a 'kooky' discussion that might open itself to all sorts of accusations of fringe beliefs and conspiracy rantings. Had no idea I'd have the Protocols of the Elders of Zion thrown in my face when I opened this thread ... fuck me ... and I'm the one thats supposed to feel like a heavenly weirdo

 

[Lurcio]

Seam. Not hoard. They get it out of the ground. I'm not an economist but I'm pretty confident of this bit.

If its in the ground, it can stay there. & just because you get it out of the ground doesn't mean you have to refine it. & if you do decide to refine it, you don't have to put it into circulation.

If you do decide to put into circulation, you'll know when to do it - in order to avoid the OVERSUPPLY scenario you outline.

Its just a rational process you have to go through, really.

 

[frogwoman]

I saw that Jacob Rothschild bloke in the pub the other week. I told him my washing machine was bust and he said he would give me some platinum to manipulate the price of washing machines better so I could afford one. I'm still waiting for the platinum

 

[8ball]

"I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed..."

 

[SaskiaJayne]

I now understand why the forum has nowhere to post a thread on finance/economics?

Its a shame ... there is a vast reality that dominates our political and economic direction but some of my fellow members regard that as a 'kooky' discussion that might open itself to all sorts of accusations of fringe beliefs and conspiracy rantings. Had no idea I'd have the Protocols of the Elders of Zion thrown in my face when I opened this thread ... fuck me ... and I'm the one thats supposed to feel like a heavenly weirdo

I don't think this is the case, you posted the op as if it was some earth shattering revelation that should have us all revolting in the streets after realising we had been duped when most people are well aware that all the world's currencies, not just the £ are backed up by nothing more than belief.

 

[BigTom]

I now understand why the forum has nowhere to post a thread on finance/economics?

Its a shame ... there is a vast reality that dominates our political and economic direction but some of my fellow members regard that as a 'kooky' discussion that might open itself to all sorts of accusations of fringe beliefs and conspiracy rantings. Had no idea I'd have the Protocols of the Elders of Zion thrown in my face when I opened this thread ... fuck me ... and I'm the one thats supposed to feel like a heavenly weirdo

Been quite a lot of posts about finance/economics over the past few years, either in p&p or in theory/philosophy/history for the more theoretical stuff.
Actually the article you started this with was also posted in the "critiques of loon theories around money..." thread, which you could read through for in depth discussion of money growth theories.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

http://thecharnelhouse.org/2013/05/07/radical-interpretations-of-the-present-crisis/

Good stuff on fictitious capital in the context of the current crisis

(In a pub on my phone will say more later)

 

[Lurcio]

I don't think this is the case, you posted the op as if it was some earth shattering revelation that should have us all revolting in the streets after realising we had been duped when most people are well aware that all the world's currencies, not just the £ are backed up by nothing more than belief.

The revelation wasn't supposed to be that fiat currencies aren't backed by anything of value, but, that a leading global central bank has (for the first time) admitted that that is the case. Thought that maybe of some value on these forums!?

And as for revolting on the streets, I'm sure the mods on these forums have strict rules against anyone trying to instigate social insurrection!

 

[Lurcio]

http://thecharnelhouse.org/2013/05/07/radical-interpretations-of-the-present-crisis/

Good stuff on fictitious capital in the context of the current crisis

(In a pub on my phone will say more later)

Cheers ... I'll look into this

 

[SaskiaJayne]

The revelation wasn't supposed to be that fiat currencies aren't backed by anything of value, but, that a leading global central bank has (for the first time) admitted that that is the case. Thought that maybe of some value on these forums!?

And as for revolting on the streets, I'm sure the mods on these forums have strict rules against anyone trying to instigate social insurrection!

All they were doing was admitting the blindingly obvious, they could hardly deny it. Urban is a forum full of political extremists, radical free thinkers & outright nutters, as such I'm sure the mods are ok with some encouragement & active promotion of insurrection, agitation & eventual overthrow of the government.