very true. Any nazi who came on here would think some of em (but it's never clear WHICH) were on THEIR side, as they hate each other so much and would rather bicker amongst others with similar beliefs than the real enemy!
Embarrassing if BNP beat left in Glasgow
- Thread starter sonny61
- Start date
very true. Any nazi who came on here would think some of em (but it's never clear WHICH) were on THEIR side, as they hate each other so much and would rather bicker amongst others with similar beliefs than the real enemy!
About 13% down on 2005 GE.
Anyway, no use bickering, especially about pedantry. I would like to hear from those who think this is a victory for the BNP - how much did you expect them to poll? Many sites were speculating on them beating the Tories (though maybe for reasons other than accurate forecasting), so their failure to do so must be disappointing for them. Personally, I tend to think that the BNPs recent successes have been a product of a fairly unusual and stormy transition period, and probably represents no significant threat to the community at large. In Scotland especially, they have the disadvantage of having to struggle against nationalist sentiment, rather than harness it. Lots of people here who I would generally consider right-wing have a strong resistance to ideas of 'Britishness', either because of issues surrounding Ireland or a more instinctive Scottish nationalism (tendency rather than party).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Not sure any has said it was a victory, a step forward, a potentially significant step forwards given the history of the seat, sure. But beyond that...suggests that QT hasn't eroded existing support, something which will be confirmed or refuted further south over the next 3 months.
Oh, I would certainly agree that QT has (probably) had a minimal (and probably no) negative impact on their standings.
The only people who thought they would come third were the press, and the BNP at the count when the frst few ballot boxes were opened
I think you should consider the BNP vote in terms of its increase from 1999 through until now. This is their best election performance ever in scotland- and i would stress, 19 votes form a saved deposit, 60 from coming third. Its the sort of votes the SSP were getting in 1997, which they turned into an MSP by 1999
Anyway, I guess I was being overly pessimistic - I genuinely expected them to beat the Tories (and only ~60 votes in it. Which way would increased turnout have pushed it?) - so their failure to keep their deposit made it seem like a giant step backwards. But the situation in Scotland (and Glasgow) is pretty anomalous compared to the UK at large (though I guess everywhere is), so trying to extract any grander pattern of the relative health of the 'far-left' or far-right is going to be fruitless (which is also why Brown really shouldn't be trying to make any claims off it's back, but any party would do the same, I suppose. Not implying Labour are left, of course.). Anyway, off to the pub to bicker about politics with people in person.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Because occasionally the seed takes root, in the right conditions. I don't personally think that the BNP would ever be anything but a minor presence on the Scottish political scene, but the fact that they're able to be present at all is somewhat worrying.
Sometimes, especially in politics, it isn't about winning, it's about establishing a presence.
Oh look, Stoat Boy has taken an opportunity to let another right-wing trope fall from his
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Interesting how willing you are to kiss the arse of anyone whose views coincide with yours, regardless of their political direction, isn't it?
A Dashing Blade
Takes horses to water but can't make donkeys drink
You have spelled pejorative wrong, and the meaning is clear too 'expressing contempt or disapproval' (Oxford English dik). You R full of ultra left simplistic tosh
Actually, OED defines it this . . .
" a. adj. Tending to make worse; depreciatory; applied
especially to a derivative word in which the meaning of the
root word is lowered by the addition of a suffix or otherwise."
And would stress to any non-scottish readers that there is PR in place up here for the Scottish parliamentary and Local Elections- and you need just a few results like this for a momentum to be built up for them to break through in Glasgow.
Side track for a moment: What do scotish voters on here think about the PR system? do you prefer it to the old system?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
i agree that the BNP are rather closer to winning a seat (perhaps through the inaction of others rather than their own 'attractiveness' to voters) in these ultra-low turn-out elections after the implosion of the SSP/SLP/Sholahadarity vote than traditional Scottish politics watchers might like to think, but i'm interested in whether people think that gaining a seat would give them permanence in a way that the Left getting 6 (or whatever) MSP's didn't give them?
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
The Daily Mash short stories said:
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
In my opinion the BNP lack something that even the most strife-torn left party have: A degree of political respectability.
A seat in a national parliament, much as their euro seats, will serve to legitimise their politics in the eyes of those parts of the right who are usually too "law and order" to vote BNP, as well as acting as a lightning rod to draw in "protest votes" who think that voting BNP once will do absolutely no harm.
JHE
.
Not a good result for anyone, really.
The Labour Party can feel a bit relieved that the SNP didn't do well, but it's not a great vote for Labour. It's just that the buggers aren't voting for any of their opponents in large numbers.
The SNP will be feeling quite glum about this, I guess.
The Tories didn't do well, but they must be very used to not doing well in Glasgae.
The BNP always do badly in Scotland. Again, they've lost their deposit. Perhaps they'll try to cheer themselves up by focusing on the fact that almost 5% is an improvement, but it's still pretty crap.
I hope John Smeaton now stops kidding himself that being a decent sort is enough to attract votes. You need some politics too.
The SSPers must be grinding their teeth. It was Big Tommy Liar who fucked up Scottish Trottery's chances of becoming a political force of some small importance, but Big Tommy Liar's sect does less badly than the remnants of the SSP. Snot fair!
If Big Tommy Liar's little crew are pleased at having beaten their rivals in the SSP, that's rather sad. It's clutching at straws. There was a time when the (pre-split) SSP looked like becoming a group to be reckoned with in Glasgae. Now all they've got to look forward to is Tommy's trial and all the loyal shite they'll come out with in a vain attempt to support the perjurer.
The Greenies and the Lib Dems did so badly they were beaten by Big Tommy's little outfit.
The Scargill Labour Party did miserably, as they often do, and it is likely that some of the 47 votes were mistakenly cast for the SLP by people who intended to vote Labour.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Somebody using the term "vaguely sane" rather than "rational" is hardly proof of a prejudice against mental health issues. If you're going to pick fights in lieu of being able to make a political point, then doesn't that illustrate the thinness of your argument?
I make loads of political points thanks. You do know the intended opposite of sane don't you? Of course.
I am against such sloppy thinking. Rather than being instead of political positions, it is as well as...
The Black Hand
Unclean
Yes Trev, you are COMPLETELY RIGHT.
It's very sad too. I think we are going to have to do more good politics without these fools...
The Black Hand
Unclean
Actually, OED defines it this . . .
" a. adj. Tending to make worse; depreciatory; applied
especially to a derivative word in which the meaning of the
root word is lowered by the addition of a suffix or otherwise."
I have got the Compact Oxford english dik, 1210 A5 pages, 2005 printing, and I quoted the exact words "expressing contempt or disapproval". Different editions will have different and additional (or less) meanings.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Interesting how willing you are to kiss the arse of anyone whose views coincide with yours, regardless of their political direction, isn't it?
WTF are you on about? I am kissing no butt of anybody, you should know me by now. WTF should I care where objective comment comes from? I am not here to care bear with the stupid, ignorant and sectarian left who reproduce sloppy old left thought. Rather I am interested in truth from an independent Red Anarchist perspective, it can be called Anarcho Marxist (Dave Douglass), Marxist Humanist, Left Anarchist and there is a large amount of autonomist thinking in the mix too. This is the type of synthesis I am after, and similar to what we talked about on that other thread.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Of course, the sides have hardened. That is very clear.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
No-one on the Left can look at this result with any pride. The SSP vote was derisory, the Solidarity vote, for the most iconic socialist in Scotland post war, was less than a weirdo BNP candidate. No doubt the sectarian name-calling will continue, with we're bigger than you etc etc, meanwhile in the real world the BNP are making progress.....
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
Hence why I wish those attending the anti fascist march tomorrow power to their protest...
I'm babysitting for those going or I'd be making a stand too...
Mainly because the BNP have remained more or less united since 1982- and have discovered the benefits of strategies promoting slow, steady progress
One of the probelms for the SSP when united was it did not have a strong local government base- which the BNP have been buidling since 2002- and as a result- when times were hard in the 2007 elections, SSP/Solidarity were only able to get 2 councillors elected under a very favourable PR system
http://scottishsocfree.blogspot.com/2009/11/solidarity-pull-off-good-result-in.html
Sheridan's post election analysis
GLASGOW NORTH EAST POSTSCRIPT : GLASS HALF FULL OR HALF EMPTY
by Tommy Sheridan
Is the glass half full or half empty? From Solidarity's point of view we entered the Glasgow North-East by election contest under our own banner reluctantly and late. We first attempted to avoid various socialist parties competing for the same constituency of voters. Our open letter to SSP and SLP seeking unity around a left trade union backed candidate for this contest was well meaning and a product of talks with non-aligned left trade unionists who had expressed an interest in such a unity project. These efforts were sadly dismissed by the SSP who proceeded to select their candidate regardless.
We were left with the choice of dipping our banner and letting the SSP and SLP battle it out for socialist votes or enter with a view to proving yet again our position as the primary socialist party in Scotland, a position secured in 2007 when we collected three times the vote of the SSP in Scotland overall and four times their vote in Glasgow. In Glasgow North-East our status as the leading socialist party was further enhanced. Despite never having stood before our vote was over five times greater than the SSP who had stood in the area previously in 2001 and 2005 and greater than all the Green, SSP and SLP votes put together.
Thus the Solidarity party can legitimately lay claim to the mantle of Scotland's primary socialist party once again but the overall result and outcome of last night's contest was still disappointing. The turnout marked a new low in Scottish by-election history. The previous low of 36% was surpassed. For the first time 2 out of every 3 voters decided to ignore the election and stay at home in protest at the sorry state politics has been dragged down to by a New Labour government in particular whose members have gorged themselves with illegitimate expense clams while lying to justify wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and presiding over an obscene growth in inequality across society.
Sure they won the election comfortably but thousands of previous core voters deserted them and factors like the proximity to a general election and the fear of a brutal Tory government being elected, the eve of the election attempt by the scab Sun to use a grieving mother cynically to undermine Brown further and the Labour candidate continually distancing himself from New Labour failures on minimum wage inadequacy, pension levels and the posties dispute played in their favour in the face of a very limp SNP campaign. Always remember the lowest turnouts in British general election and by-election history have came under New Labour and a Nazi party like the BNP won two Euro seats for the first time under their watch.
The BNP vote in Glasgow was poor by comparison to their exploits in England. To fail to keep their deposit in a seat were immigration issues probably rank higher than any other part of Scotland and after getting massive TV and press exposure on the back of Griffin's Question Time appearance and his visits to Glasgow was a serious setback. They thought they would keep their deposit for the first time ever and they failed. The methods used to expose these fascists further and the racial poison and division they preach should be debated on the left in the near future. Leaving the main-stream numpties to expose their cynical lies in the media may no longer be sufficient. It is the collective failure of those numpties to tackle poverty, low pay, unemployment and quality housing provision that is after all at the root of these modern day Nazi's superficial attraction to some of the most dispossessed.
All in all Solidarity can be proud of it's campaign. Our material was good in quality and content and our contact with the public was constant. Our nine public meetings were successful in different ways and the meetings alongside George Galloway were outstanding. The saddest and proudest moment for me was when 6 young men in their mid to late twenties entered Royston primary school to cast their first ever votes for me and Solidarity. I was proud they made the effort to vote but sad that only one of the 6 emerged having cast a vote as the others were all absent from the register. A job on voter registration has to be done.
With a general election only 6 months away however we and the other left forces have to devise a method to prevent competing in the same seats for the same votes. Whether through electoral agreements or temporary alliances we owe it to the class we aim to represent to get our act together and offer a more united and therefore viable and potentially powerful electoral alternative. The glass half empty or half full? Well the BNP lost their deposit and we secured a clear mandate as the socialist party of choice in Glasgow. However the terrible turnout and the fact the BNP came close to keeping their deposit makes it a half empty glass experience overall.
Sheridan's post election analysis
GLASGOW NORTH EAST POSTSCRIPT : GLASS HALF FULL OR HALF EMPTY
by Tommy Sheridan
Is the glass half full or half empty? From Solidarity's point of view we entered the Glasgow North-East by election contest under our own banner reluctantly and late. We first attempted to avoid various socialist parties competing for the same constituency of voters. Our open letter to SSP and SLP seeking unity around a left trade union backed candidate for this contest was well meaning and a product of talks with non-aligned left trade unionists who had expressed an interest in such a unity project. These efforts were sadly dismissed by the SSP who proceeded to select their candidate regardless.
We were left with the choice of dipping our banner and letting the SSP and SLP battle it out for socialist votes or enter with a view to proving yet again our position as the primary socialist party in Scotland, a position secured in 2007 when we collected three times the vote of the SSP in Scotland overall and four times their vote in Glasgow. In Glasgow North-East our status as the leading socialist party was further enhanced. Despite never having stood before our vote was over five times greater than the SSP who had stood in the area previously in 2001 and 2005 and greater than all the Green, SSP and SLP votes put together.
Thus the Solidarity party can legitimately lay claim to the mantle of Scotland's primary socialist party once again but the overall result and outcome of last night's contest was still disappointing. The turnout marked a new low in Scottish by-election history. The previous low of 36% was surpassed. For the first time 2 out of every 3 voters decided to ignore the election and stay at home in protest at the sorry state politics has been dragged down to by a New Labour government in particular whose members have gorged themselves with illegitimate expense clams while lying to justify wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and presiding over an obscene growth in inequality across society.
Sure they won the election comfortably but thousands of previous core voters deserted them and factors like the proximity to a general election and the fear of a brutal Tory government being elected, the eve of the election attempt by the scab Sun to use a grieving mother cynically to undermine Brown further and the Labour candidate continually distancing himself from New Labour failures on minimum wage inadequacy, pension levels and the posties dispute played in their favour in the face of a very limp SNP campaign. Always remember the lowest turnouts in British general election and by-election history have came under New Labour and a Nazi party like the BNP won two Euro seats for the first time under their watch.
The BNP vote in Glasgow was poor by comparison to their exploits in England. To fail to keep their deposit in a seat were immigration issues probably rank higher than any other part of Scotland and after getting massive TV and press exposure on the back of Griffin's Question Time appearance and his visits to Glasgow was a serious setback. They thought they would keep their deposit for the first time ever and they failed. The methods used to expose these fascists further and the racial poison and division they preach should be debated on the left in the near future. Leaving the main-stream numpties to expose their cynical lies in the media may no longer be sufficient. It is the collective failure of those numpties to tackle poverty, low pay, unemployment and quality housing provision that is after all at the root of these modern day Nazi's superficial attraction to some of the most dispossessed.
All in all Solidarity can be proud of it's campaign. Our material was good in quality and content and our contact with the public was constant. Our nine public meetings were successful in different ways and the meetings alongside George Galloway were outstanding. The saddest and proudest moment for me was when 6 young men in their mid to late twenties entered Royston primary school to cast their first ever votes for me and Solidarity. I was proud they made the effort to vote but sad that only one of the 6 emerged having cast a vote as the others were all absent from the register. A job on voter registration has to be done.
With a general election only 6 months away however we and the other left forces have to devise a method to prevent competing in the same seats for the same votes. Whether through electoral agreements or temporary alliances we owe it to the class we aim to represent to get our act together and offer a more united and therefore viable and potentially powerful electoral alternative. The glass half empty or half full? Well the BNP lost their deposit and we secured a clear mandate as the socialist party of choice in Glasgow. However the terrible turnout and the fact the BNP came close to keeping their deposit makes it a half empty glass experience overall.
Slow steady progress? No they just got a new leader. The old leader was authoritarian odd ball who appealed only to the Nazi element and the dimbo element, the new leader is mor clever. mor canny, has a couple of "sensible ideas, a little bit fame-hungry, and has a completely different strategy, show'd no interest in the way John Tindal did things, if John Tindal was still in charge they probably wouldn't hav made any mor progress than they did up to 1999, shame that he got ousted actually.
The Black Hand
Unclean
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