Embarrassing if BNP beat left in Glasgow

[belboid]

That's the combined obvious FAR left vote, there were 3 independents whose politics would have to be looked at a bit more to see whether they were left or right too. I think lots of left people will have voted Labour and the SNP, so I also think you are mistaken

'left people' may have voted for labour or the snp, but they are not left wing parties by any stretch of the imaginiation. So they were not 'left votes'. Two of the three independents were shitty right-wngers, dunno about the third. But even if he was left as fuck, his vote still have meant the 'combined lefts' beat the BNP's by 2 shitty little votes. Any cvaguely sane analysis would show the far-right doing significantly better than the far-left. In Glasgow.

 

[Paul Marsh]

the BNP are still a long way from a breakthrough.

If they've not had a breakthrough yet, I would hate to see it when they do....

 

[glenquagmire]

If you include the Greens, I make the left-of-Labour vote 6.44 between the four parties. More than the BNP.

Of course, you can now start arguing about how the Greens aren't very left, the SLP aren't very left, the SSP aren't left (because they're 'scabs') etc...

 

[JimPage]

Any vaguely sane analysis would show the far-right doing significantly better than the far-left. In Glasgow.

And this being Glasgow matters

There are very few places in electoral terms where "the left" are in a general lead over the BNP Inner East London, Lancaster, Preston, Brighton and Coventry- maybe a few more areas. But Glasgow was the big red daddy of them all, with the SSP polling 14.4% in Springburn in 2003- and 2 MSPs from Glasgow

And they have just come, with an activist base in Glasgow of no more than half a dozen active members, and with a little help at weekends from their Cumbrian and Tyneside members and whupped the most high profile Socialist in Scotland, Tommy Sheridan

 

[JimPage]

If you include the Greens, I make the left-of-Labour vote 6.44 between the four parties. More than the BNP.

Of course, you can now start arguing about how the Greens aren't very left, the SLP aren't very left, the SSP aren't left (because they're 'scabs') etc...

You could feasibly add Smeatons vote to the BNP's under this reckoning

 

[lewislewis]

'left people' may have voted for labour or the snp, but they are not left wing parties by any stretch of the imaginiation. So they were not 'left votes'. Two of the three independents were shitty right-wngers, dunno about the third. But even if he was left as fuck, his vote still have meant the 'combined lefts' beat the BNP's by 2 shitty little votes. Any cvaguely sane analysis would show the far-right doing significantly better than the far-left. In Glasgow.

The SNP is a left-of-centre social democratic party.

With regards to the election, I can't find any positives at all in it.

It's likely the BNP could get an MSP in Scotland and an AM in Wales in 2011 because of the proportional systems in use.

 

[glenquagmire]

You could feasibly add Smeatons vote to the BNP's under this reckoning

My 'reckoning' was per mutley's post further up on this page. The BNP did not beat the combined left vote.

 

[The Black Hand]

'left people' may have voted for labour or the snp, but they are not left wing parties by any stretch of the imaginiation. So they were not 'left votes'. Two of the three independents were shitty right-wngers, dunno about the third. But even if he was left as fuck, his vote still have meant the 'combined lefts' beat the BNP's by 2 shitty little votes. Any cvaguely sane analysis would show the far-right doing significantly better than the far-left. In Glasgow.

Whats with all this mental health prejeudice on this website? This is far from the only example too.

Anyway, are you saying that the people on the left have disappeared? They are still there you know. The right do not have that possibility in Glasgow.

I think the problem is that they are not motivated, and that is to do with the level of infighting and prejudicial language such as the likes of you use.

 

[The Black Hand]

And this being Glasgow matters

There are very few places in electoral terms where "the left" are in a general lead over the BNP Inner East London, Lancaster, Preston, Brighton and Coventry- maybe a few more areas. But Glasgow was the big red daddy of them all, with the SSP polling 14.4% in Springburn in 2003- and 2 MSPs from Glasgow

And they have just come, with an activist base in Glasgow of no more than half a dozen active members, and with a little help at weekends from their Cumbrian and Tyneside members and whupped the most high profile Socialist in Scotland, Tommy Sheridan

It's not as doom laden as you are suggesting. Who gives a fek about Tommy? Not me, he is not essential to socialist growth in the area, or anywhere for that matter. The red vote is STILL there, it hasn't changed, it is just lacking motivation and dare I say it, undecided as to the way forward.

 

[The Black Hand]

If they've not had a breakthrough yet, I would hate to see it when they do....

Poor little bairn, exciteable aren't you.

 

[belboid]

well that just shows how useless your 'analysis' is then.

The simple fact is the far-right vote outstripped the far-left vote. Anyone denying that is living in cloud cuckoo land. Whilst the BNP will not be about to win a seat in Glasgow, they got more evidencable support from the electorate than the combined far-left did.

Of course if the far-left united and put out a leaflet headlined 'Praxis' they would probably have won the election.

(god save us from pisspoor academics)

 

[The Black Hand]

My 'reckoning' was per mutley's post further up on this page. The BNP did not beat the combined left vote.

Of course.

 

[The Black Hand]

And they [BNP] have just come, with an activist base in Glasgow of no more than half a dozen active members, and with a little help at weekends from their Cumbrian and Tyneside members

What does this tell you? It tells me that they put in a lot of work that is unsustainable, bussing in morons from Cumbria and the North East indeed. 1000 votes is not that many, especially in a by election. Expect the vote to fall in the General Election, when the vote will get more serious, and the BNP cannot bus in people.

I said this "the BNP are still a long way from a breakthrough. Certainly in Scotland its impossible imho". Here it is again in full, cos Marsh perfers to selectively quote. I am using breakthrough here to mean being a significant political force, rather than being a sideshow (in Scotland they are not even the latter).

 

[The Black Hand]

well that just shows how useless your 'analysis' is then.

The simple fact is the far-right vote outstripped the far-left vote. Anyone denying that is living in cloud cuckoo land. Whilst the BNP will not be about to win a seat in Glasgow, they got more evidencable support from the electorate than the combined far-left did.

Of course if the far-left united and put out a leaflet headlined 'Praxis' they would probably have won the election.

(god save us from pisspoor academics)

What a load of shite, full of prejudicial and pejorative rubbish. When you have stopped building straw men and being exciteable you may grow up. I am going to report your post cos you were warned.

 

[belboid]

eh? have you invented a nerw meaning of 'perjorative'?

It's a simple fact, the far-right vote beat that of the far-left. Deny it as much as you want, but it wont make it any less true.

 

[butchersapron]

Well there's the answer as to how question time might damage Griffin. It didn't.

 

[Stoat Boy]

Its only a thousand votes. Why are you all getting so het up about it ? Genuinely puzzled.

It was only ever a two horse race with those coming third or below scrapping over nothing.

Now I accept that you lefties like to fall out with each other rather easily but this seems dafter than most.

Personally I am gutted at the Labour vote holding up so well. Not so much from a Tory POV because its only Scotland and who cares but because it means that idea of Scottish independance seems to have taken a real spanking here which means we are stuck with them.

Poxy SNP.

 

[The Black Hand]

eh? have you invented a nerw meaning of 'perjorative'?

You have spelled pejorative wrong, and the meaning is clear too 'expressing contempt or disapproval' (Oxford English dik). You R full of ultra left simplistic tosh

 

[The Black Hand]

Well there's the answer as to how question time might damage Griffin. It didn't.

You cannot draw that conclusion from that vote, well not realistically anyway.

 

[belboid]

oh well, better that than a useless liberal academic arse

 

[The Black Hand]

A) Its only a thousand votes. Why are you all getting so het up about it ? Genuinely puzzled.

B) It was only ever a two horse race with those coming third or below scrapping over nothing.

C) Now I accept that you lefties like to fall out with each other rather easily but this seems dafter than most.

Personally I am gutted at the Labour vote holding up so well. Not so much from a Tory POV because its only Scotland and who cares but because it means that idea of Scottish independance seems to have taken a real spanking here which means we are stuck with them.

Poxy SNP.

A,B,C, good examples and objective comment here. You ultra left lot should look and learn, and even better start to think.

 

[dennisr]

So the full results:

Labour - 12,231 votes (59.39%)
SNP - 4,120 votes (20%)
Tory - 1,075 votes (5.22%)
BNP - 1,013 votes (4.92%)
Solidarity - 794 votes (3.86%)
Scottish Greens - 332 (1.61%)
John Smeaton - 258 (1.25%)
Scottish Socialist Party - 152 (0.74%)
Socialist Labour Party - 47 (0.23%)
Lib Dems - 474 votes (2.30%)
Total votes cast - 20,595
Voter turnout - 32.97%

Its a by-election so looks like a low turnout - is Glasgow lower or higher normally?

 

[The Black Hand]

oh well, better that than a useless liberal academic arse

Fantastic. I am now a 'liberal academic arse'. You oiks are exciteable and not able to debate even Marxist politics sensibly. If you want to know why you are doing so badly some more self analysis is called for.

What I am saying is, as it always has been, medicine not poison (that's my tribute to Levi btw).

 

[William of Walworth]

Thanks for that full result dennis!

 

[belboid]

I am now a 'liberal academic arse'.

well, yes, you are. Without even the ability to do basic addition.

Tho why I'm bothering even replying to you, I don't know, as no one pays you any serious attention.

Goodbye.

 

[The Black Hand]

well, yes, you are. Without even the ability to do basic addition.

Tho why I'm bothering even replying to you, I don't know, as no one pays you any serious attention.

Goodbye.

You see what you want to see, that is not a recipe for serious scientific thinking. 'how many put downs' can you try, that's the way children behave.

It is quite clear who has serious Marxist politics here, and it is not you or your ilk. Your collective low standard of posts are available for all to see.

 

[belboid]

Well, if you think including labour, SNP and greens amongst the votes of the 'far left' is 'serious Marxist politics', you go big guy! Personally I see that as the desperate attempts of apologists for the system to help them believe it's all okay.

In the space of just a couple of years, the scottish - nae, the Glasgow - political landscape has shifted to such an extent that the left (ie an actual left, not the right-wing labour tosspots) have gone from half a dozen MSP's to 0, whilst the BNP have gone from half a dozen votes to outscoring the entire far-left! It might not be earth-shattering, 1930's Berlin all over again, but if you think it means virtually nothing, you've got your head up your arse.

 

[JimPage]

It's not as doom laden as you are suggesting. Who gives a fek about Tommy? Not me, he is not essential to socialist growth in the area, or anywhere for that matter. The red vote is STILL there, it hasn't changed, it is just lacking motivation and dare I say it, undecided as to the way forward.

I full agree the left vote is still out there, probably among the 66% who did not vote- and won't vote again unless the left sorts its act out

And while in England- there seems to be a broad consensus among most of the large left groups (SP, SWP, CPB) that at very least a non-agression pact is the way forward in the run up the General Election , I cant see this hapenning in Scotland. The worry with the BNP vote has been steadily creeping up to the current level organically, a % point here and there. But this is all they need to break through in 2011- 6.5% glasgow wide will give them a seat

 

[belboid]

the idea that 'the left' just needs to 'sort its act out' to garner the left vote which is, apparently, still obviously out there, is a fantasy politics drawn up by people living of hope not expereience.

There is a large vote out there that could be won to the left, but it isn't particulalry left wing now. It could be pulled to the right, or even to a centrist (not in the leninist sense) party that bothered with grassroots work and which hasn't already been discreditted through its role in government.

Concentrating on the tiny left groups is completely arse over tit, and doomed to failure.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Whats with all this mental health prejeudice on this website? This is far from the only example too.

Somebody using the term "vaguely sane" rather than "rational" is hardly proof of a prejudice against mental health issues. If you're going to pick fights in lieu of being able to make a political point, then doesn't that illustrate the thinness of your argument?