True. I wouldn't advicate it other than recycling used oil. The frustrating thing watching this as a layman, with no particular scientific knowledge. Is that there seems to be so many things we could to do produce cleaner energy. But it needs someone to start reorganising and investing in point to point systems. Making energy from waste. Micro generation systems in our urban streets. Piazo electric pads under any new likely to be well trodden routes. Biodigesters or methane storing systems at municiple compost sites.
electric cars.
- Thread starter chainsaw cat
- Start date
david dissadent
New Member
Alot of the schemes tend to ignore the energy cost of actual manufacture. The time taken for the energy cost of manufacture to be produced by the energy source is a big part of what is called EROI, energy return on investment. For example a small wind turbine on a house often produces so little energy it takes a very long time to produce a net energy gain.
Actualy this is very common now. One of the companies doing this was thinking of listing on the stock market but did not as so many of the good sites have now been taken up there is not much room for growth.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
editor
hiraethified
Although electric powerered vehicles look to be an improvement over petrol driven ones, it's still a sideways step if the roads remain as congested and people continue to drive extremely short distances, especially when they're the sole occupant.
Unless they make tiny electric cars. One of these should be perfect for Cobbles:
Unless they make tiny electric cars. One of these should be perfect for Cobbles:
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
No, no, you big divvy, you drop the one out of your car and get a new one. Don't need to carry it at all, there'd be some sort of pallet truck device to handle them.
Like being in a futuristic film.
They should geet JP Gaultier to design the Esso lads' uniforms. Little lightning flash motif.
Tight silvery fabric.
Nice.
Eeerrrrm, where were we?
Nonsense - commercial agriculture (as oppposed to subsistence) will always be driven by profitability, hence if a farmer can get more money by selling his maize to the mazola factory down the road where it's turned into a substance used to heat up "chicken nibbles" 5,000 miles away, rather than to his neighbour, then he will.
If he can get even more by selling it to Conoco then so be it.
The same applies globally, that's why the November mangetout crop needs to be flown in from Zambia where it was hardly going to feed the populace anyway (it only forms part of a meal, for example providing something on which to balance a tower of hand caught Maldivian Tuna at a "feed the world whilst making it gween" charity dinner) .
Of course, some governments have tried to nationise food production by turning land away from profitable agriculture (e.g. Roses) into subsistence farms but as Zimbabwe so ably demonstrated, that's just a disaster.
david dissadent
New Member
What are you trying to say. You are making zero sense, unless you believe the world currently has no subsidies for agriculture. You seem to be dribbling shit, clarify please.
Some dimwit said that buying cooking oil to run a car on was "Criminal" (it's not illegal to buy cooking oil for your car, but it is illegal to use it as fuel HMG has the right to apply fuel tax and VAT on top to all fuels) on the basis that it was taking the food out of starving bairns' mouths or something equally stupid.
Clearly as the source materials have been grown somewhere on a planned industrial scale, refined and transported elsewhere, it's not exactly taking away land that would have been used for growing beans to feed the local populace.
By working on the cooking oil farm they can afford to buy Indonesian rice.
david dissadent
New Member
Good lord, you are increadibly dumb.
The word fungible certainly is not in your vocabulary. There is no begining to your grasp of economics.
elbows
Well-Known Member
A modernized version of the Sinclair C5 would be quite good if it were the only vehicle on the road.
Good lord, you are increadibly dumb.
At least I can spell - isn't that taught at skule or is it just all eekynomiks and meeja studys these days?
david dissadent
New Member
2/10 for effort. Say hello to the billy goats gruff for me.
elbows
Well-Known Member
There was some talk that mass uptake of electric vehicles, charged overnight, would be an excellent way to store power generated by wind etc at night.
Its a shame battery technology hasnt progressed enough in my lifetime. That, along with cost of replacing current stock of cars, and challenges generating enough electricty in future, leave me in some doubt as to whether the electric car age will be one for the masses.
I suppose the future might be a combination of less distant travel, greater localization, more public transport. Although the love affair with the car means considerable effort may go towards preserving the car and all that goes with it, I guess it will depend quite how badly various resource issues bite.
At the very least I hope we avoid the nightmare inequality of having lots of people starve so that others can drive. I suppose this reality may already exist on a limited scale, how I do not want to live to see it expand. The backlash against biofuels in the last year gives me some hope in this regard, but I suppose I shouldnt be complacent.
At the moment lots of folk starve so that others can eat McDonalds and KFC garbage - let's ban that first.
editor
hiraethified
Your logic is so desperately flawed it's not worth even.. .. . .
Oh dear, I appreciate that a dose of reality isn't nice but this all started with some person suggesting that electric cars were the future. They'd either have to be pre-pubescent or a moron to be unable to realise that a £45K Elise body shell chock-a-block full of surplus Dell batteries with 2 seats and a boot barely large enough for a single set of golf clubs - but only if you leave the roof and its supporting hoops at home - doesn't equate to a practical vehicle.
Along the way we've had the usual vegan-sandalled-nose-in-the-air bolllocks comments about theevilness of biofuels (what - is that odious goon Mugabwe going to invade the USA and take over the Rape Seed fields for his starving populace to feed on?).
Governments love cars. They can be taxed dozens of different ways and so can petrol, LPG and diesel.
They're here to stay because governments don't want to be voted out of power (and their ministerial Jags and Cadillacs - how many ministers ride in a Prius?).
The road lobby is powerful. The anti-road lobby doesn't even register.
Learn to live with it.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Um, a fair few in the UK. Standard choice offered to a minister is between a jag and a prius. Since Prescott got castigated for having two jags as transport minister it would take rare balls for the ministers in DEFRA, DFT or DFID to take anything but the Prius. A fair few of the others take the Prius too, though I don't know the exact figures.
Just a small example of you not knowing what you are talking about.
"Ministers keep their gas-guzzling cars despite CO2 targets"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...guzzling-cars-despite-co2-targets-798394.html
"Ministers yesterday faced renewed criticism after figures revealed that 13 of the 20 cars used by cabinet ministers are in the second-highest car tax band, pumping out more than 185g of carbon dioxide per kilometre. One further car is in the top band, with emissions of more than 225g/km."
*snigger*
"Brown breaks promise to drive 'green' ministerial car"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...se-to-drive-green-ministerial-car-427563.html
*chortle*
The Government car and despatch agency may have a fair few hybrids in their fleet but clearly nobody of any consequence wants to be seen in one........
cybertect
It's grim up north (London)
There's an exemption if you produce or use less than 2500 litres as fuel a year.
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...ntent&id=HMCE_CL_000205&propertyType=document
(Section 4.2.1)
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
How big is the battery? Bonus points if you can tell me how long a piece of string is.
All: Stop feeding Cobbles, he's a troll.
Figures from Tesla:
- 231 mi EPA city
- 224 mi EPA highway
- 227 mi EPA combined (city/highway)
3.5 hours for a full charge and a mere 2 hours to top up after a 100 mile run using the "High Power Connector that is installed in your garage by a qualified electrician". Presumably if you actually want to use it to go places other than your garage, then the "optional Mobile Connector" comes into play - might take a bit longer though so you can use your Platinum Amex to find a nice 5 star hostelry for the night (but you won't need to worry about tipping teh bellboy to carry your luggage - you won't have any as the boot space will be taken up by the connector).
Clearly it's designed as a 3rd or 4th vehicle-toy rather than a serious attempt at saving Polar Bears.
The website is a perfect example of design for the golly-gosh gullible - I reckon that it'll sell quite well to slebs for eho $89K is cheap (compared with the cost of a private air chartr to Vale or wherever) who've had their eco-worthiness bashed when it was discovered that they bought a Prius for the kids' PA......
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Thank you Cobbles, your dedication to truth and facts humbles us all.
Then again it doesn't answer the question, how much will an electric car suffer in the UK's winters, which aren't even that bad for the most part, when all the nifty features modern cars use are turned on.
Then again it doesn't answer the question, how much will an electric car suffer in the UK's winters, which aren't even that bad for the most part, when all the nifty features modern cars use are turned on.
cybertect
It's grim up north (London)
But judging by all the reviews I've read, it's a serious hoot to drive (which is more than can be said for just about any other electric vehicle ever made).
Is anyone going to get excited over a G-Wizz?
A 225 mile / $60,000 4-door saloon is next from Tesla, apparently.
G. Fieendish
Snark Hunter
I seem to recall that someone has already suggested this idea, a couple of years ago, for the state of California...
I'm not sure if the proposed Chevrolet Volt has the provision for "hot-swapping" it's powerpack, in the manner described, in the same way the concept version that was demoed a couple of years ago on Top Gear, had the provision for "hotswapping" it's bodywork...
If it does, then the proposal's plausable....
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
If it's plausible, it's copyrightable, and I was first ok, you are all my witnesses and you'll get a tenner each and 50 nicker to the Ed to keep the site going.
More if I break the £million.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Just spotted ( it's an old story) that the Danish government is subsidising an electric car infrastructure (similar to what I was proposing above, to much derision 
). They plan to charge by mileage, not per battery:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/27/denmark_agassi_ev/
). They plan to charge by mileage, not per battery:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/27/denmark_agassi_ev/
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
Vven Boris has become a fan of electric cars...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/12/02/do0201.xml
(by the sound of it this Sunday's Top Gear should be a laugh)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/12/02/do0201.xml
(by the sound of it this Sunday's Top Gear should be a laugh)
free spirit
more tea vicar?
fair enough, I stand by my previous comments about the problems inherent in a system based on swapping batteries though... be interesting to see how it pans out, though I can see it ending up a bit like the B&Q home wind turbine debacle - ie backfiring due to piss poor understanding of the limitations of the technologies involved, leading to pissed off customers and badly damaging the reputation of small wind turbines and other home renewables systems.Just spotted ( it's an old story) that the Danish government is subsidising an electric car infrastructure (similar to what I was proposing above, to much derision
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/27/denmark_agassi_ev/
either they'll need to be swapping out batteries from the system before they've really reached the end of their useful lives, or they'll face problems from having too much variability within the storage capacity of different battery units, meaning the units will be judged as being unreliable as one battery may take you to work and back no problem, but another more damaged one would run out unexpectedly part way back from work... swapability is a red herring IMO.
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