Electoral fronts are not enough we need to Make The Middle Class history:

[bemused]

Class doesn't matter in this society?

Doesn't matter to me. Income levels seems to be the big difference between how people live.

 

[Pickman's model]

Wow, you're a complete loon.

it's his biggest success

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Ian Bone is right we do need to have ANARCHISTS CANDIDATES FOR GENERAL ELECTION??? but we do not need the Middle Class to become the vangard of our class

So you will be standing, then?

 

[Andy the Don]

there's a queue

Of course there is a queue, it's what us middle class do best queueing.. We will even form a polite queue for our own execution..

 

[kabbes]

enumbers, are you capable of speaking in anything other than slogans and clichés? Other people's slogans and clichés, at that.

 

[Combustible]

So what percentage of the UK population are to be hanged and how many in the UK would survive if the same principles were applied worldwide?

 

[two sheds]

What is the definition of middle class nowadays, anyway?

 

[Hocus Eye.]

Of course there is a queue, it's what us middle class do best queueing.. We will even form a polite queue for our own execution..

I have worked with and mixed socially with people who might be defined by others as middle class because of their life-style. These people do not queue at all they always know someone in the hierarchy who will let them jump the queue.

Many of them however recognise that their social customs don't protect them from the reality that underneath it all they are just salary slaves in the same way that many of their parents were wage slaves. Ultimately they work for the owners of capital and they know it. The so called 'upward mobility' of the descendants of the artisan class was quite superficial. The loss of craft skills and increase in post graduate office work was not an increase in the middle class. In fact there has been in recent years a rapid de-skilling and 'proletarianisation' of the work of non-manual workers who liked to call themselves 'professionals'.

There is no need to make the 'middle class' history, they aren't there any more. It is not that 'we are all middle class now' as NewLabour would have us believe. We are all working class. It is only that the word hasn't got around to everyone yet.

 

[Stoat Boy]

Dulwich is a straight fight between the Tories and Labour. Simple as.

The 'left' could put up Coco the Clown if it wanted and it aint going to make any difference.

 

[isitme]

I have worked with and mixed socially with people who might be defined by others as middle class because of their life-style. These people do not queue at all they always know someone in the hierarchy who will let them jump the queue.

Many of them however recognise that their social customs don't protect them from the reality that underneath it all they are just salary slaves in the same way that many of their parents were wage slaves. Ultimately they work for the owners of capital and they know it. The so called 'upward mobility' of the descendants of the artisan class was quite superficial. The loss of craft skills and increase in post graduate office work was not an increase in the middle class. In fact there has been in recent years a rapid de-skilling and 'proletarianisation' of the work of non-manual workers who liked to call themselves 'professionals'.

There is no need to make the 'middle class' history, they aren't there any more. It is not that 'we are all middle class now' as NewLabour would have us believe. We are all working class. It is only that the word hasn't got around to everyone yet.

yeah, but dentists aren't as working class as chippies

 

[JHE]

I don't recollect any praise for Pol Pot. Did you just make this smear up?

No, of course I'm not making it up. I just remember some Class War paper seller banging on about killing all the middle class types and Pol Pot got it right, or something of the sort. It was a provocation/joke, of course, but that was Class War, wasn't it? That was what made it so different from the ernest magazines and 'newspapers' of most of the left: it was one big knowing joke. 'Hospitalised copper', probably the papers best-known feature, was a tasteless joke, but lots of people like tasteless jokes.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh a paper seller now - not the paper. How handy.

 

[tar1984]

Oh, and I forgot RANDOM CAPITALS for EMPHASIS where it isn't REALLY necessary.

 

[Philip Pomper]

Doesn't matter to me. Income levels seems to be the big difference between how people live.

And nothing to do with class.

 

[Lo Siento.]

^ this - people are waaaaaay too hung up on the whole class thing.

oh yeah, because it´s not like the entire political class in this country is from the same background, or class background knocks years off your life expectation or anything. And because people are always going on about ways to redress things like this. People on TV are always banging on about "the whole class thing"

Idiot.

 

[butchersapron]

On the death of the artisans mentioned above can i point out that self-employment had massively increased -there are new artisans. The classical middle class has not dissapeared - it's expanded. Its exclusive condtions might have dissapeared, in fact they have. But the class hasn't.

 

[elbows]

Class debates do my head in, not because its irrelevant, its clearly not, but because there is so much baggage and because the basic labels dont seem to do justice to the wide array of things these labels represent.

I guess I am middle class in the sense that my parents were teachers and I grew up on an estate that was literally on the right side of the tracks. In some ways I find it easier to talk on a certain level with the few middle class people at work, but in other ways their attitudes drive me bonkers and Id rather hang round with the blokes in the factory who are, I guess, working class.

I have the same sort of trouble with stuff like liberalism, in many ways I am a liberal but I am also disgusted at how much horror such attitudes have inflicted on many in the world.

I dont see a way past this stuff, except that economic & energy woe in the decades ahead will probably shake things up rather a lot.

 

[elbows]

And by that I mean that certain attitudes about the world are unsustainable, and there will come a day where the concept of sustainability shows its teeth, ie the time when the unsustainable things cannot be sustained a moment longer.

 

[bemused]

And nothing to do with class.

Nope. It is all about money.

 

[bemused]

oh yeah, because it´s not like the entire political class in this country is from the same background, or class background knocks years off your life expectation or anything.

Isn't life expectancy related more to your economic situation?

Maybe you live in a Wodehouse novel?

 

[Philip Pomper]

Nope. It is all about money.

Which has nothing to do with class.

 

[jæd]

^ this - people are waaaaaay too hung up on the whole class thing.

Only people I've heard bang on about class are the people on here...

 

[e19896]

On the death of the artisans mentioned above can i point out that self-employment had massively increased -there are new artisans. The classical middle class has not dissapeared - it's expanded. Its exclusive condtions might have dissapeared, in fact they have. But the class hasn't.

Grade Social class Chief Income Earner’s Occupation
A upper middle class Higher managerial, administrative or professional.
B middle class Intermediate managerial, administrative or professional
C1 lower middle class Supervisory or clerical and junior managerial, administrative or professional
C2 skilled working class Skilled manual workers
D working class Semi and unskilled manual workers
E underclass Casual or lowest grade workers, pensioners and others who depend on the welfare state for their income

The grades are often grouped into ABC1 and C2DE and these are taken to equate to middle class and working class respectively. Only around 2% of the UK population identifies as upper class, and this group is not included in the classification scheme.

A rant indeed or perhaps just ill health, ie the poster knew jack shit what they was saying..

 

[TopCat]

No, of course I'm not making it up. I just remember some Class War paper seller banging on about killing all the middle class types and Pol Pot got it right, or something of the sort. It was a provocation/joke, of course, but that was Class War, wasn't it? That was what made it so different from the ernest magazines and 'newspapers' of most of the left: it was one big knowing joke. 'Hospitalised copper', probably the papers best-known feature, was a tasteless joke, but lots of people like tasteless jokes.

Lying fucker.

 

[newbie]

Nope. It is all about money.

agree, social class is a different animal to economic class.

working class: throughout a lifetime all income comes from working, it is entirely the product of their own labour;
middle class: substantial portions of income are unearned (the product of someone else's labour). This generally means income from asset (= capital) ownership & manipulation, buying and selling shares, property etc.

no, odd bits of building society interest don't count, nor do pensions or state benefits. There are always circumstances at the margins (like winning millions on the lottery) which cloud the issue, but so what.

 

[Fuchs66]

Grade Social class Chief Income Earner’s Occupation
A upper middle class Higher managerial, administrative or professional.
B middle class Intermediate managerial, administrative or professional
C1 lower middle class Supervisory or clerical and junior managerial, administrative or professional
C2 skilled working class Skilled manual workers
D working class Semi and unskilled manual workers
E underclass Casual or lowest grade workers, pensioners and others who depend on the welfare state for their income

Not sure what I am here probably C1 or C2, no supervisory role but also not what I'd call a manual worker anymore

E2A oh bugger does this mean I have to hang myself from the nearest lamp post if I get my promotion at the end of the year?

agree, social class is a different animal to economic class.

working class: throughout a lifetime all income comes from working, it is entirely the product of their own labour;
middle class: substantial portions of income are unearned (the product of someone else's labour). This generally means income from asset (= capital) ownership & manipulation, buying and selling shares, property etc.

no, odd bits of building society interest don't count, nor do pensions or state benefits. There are always circumstances at the margins (like winning millions on the lottery) which cloud the issue, but so what.

Yay cheers newbie I is working class. Maybe

 

[newbie]

don't go on what I say, a grown-up'll be along in a minute to tell me I'm wrong

 

[Fuchs66]

No, no I'm sticking with your definition comrade

 

[JHE]

Lying fucker.

Get out of it! I'm not lying. Why on earth would I? And why would people shouting for the killing of the middle class not add that Pol Pot got it right?

 

[butchersapron]

'Shouting' - anothee attempted sidestep away from the claim it was in the paper as a slogan.