Election ‘04: Black London Decides

[ernestolynch]

Is the Christian Dentist Alliance attending?

Why, mr idiot, did you call it the most important meeting by the way?

 

[Harold Hill]

Why would it be more "equal" to have one targeted at all communities rather than taking into account the different needs and interests of Londons diverse ones?

What are these different needs exactly?

 

[rednblack]

londoners - black, white and of every other complexion and all origins - will, i confidently expect, be sold short no matter which fat cat they elect. things like transport, health, housing, policing and so on and so forth are already in the hands of paper shufflers and/or incompetents and seem set to remain so

none of the candidates can offer anything to working class londoners of whatever ethnic origin (except maybe lorna reid ) the idea of a bme hustings is pointless, the vast majority of working class black and asian londoners will not give a fuck about this, it will appeal purely to the business and "community" leaders who will love having their egos stroked, and maybe a few policy wonks who get turned on by this sort of thing.
this is absolutely regressive and does nothing to further the position of the working class in london

 

[Random One]

Well this thread has turned to complete fucking shite.

I don't see why a hustings aimed at BME community is pointless. A normal hustings would be a majority white affair where people of ethnic minorties may feel intimidated to raise issues concerning them. So if this gives people the chance to have there voice heard about matters that affect them then it is not pointless.

No meeting by itself is going to further the position of the working class, ethnic minorities or anyone else, but if you don't know what the concerns of the people are in the first place then how will you ever determine what it is that needs to be changed.

 

[butchersapron]

So what about working class only meetings? Genuine question as you seem to have grouped them on the same level as the people this is aimed at?

 

[rednblack]

A normal hustings would be a majority white affair where people of ethnic minorties

not where i live! in tottenham the only hustings ive been to had about 2 white people, and 100+ black and turkish or kurdish. the vast majority were working class.

 

[academia]

The 2001 Census results showed the White British population standing at 59.79%.

At what point does an ethnicity become a minority?
When the whities hit 49% do they get invited to the meeting?

 

[montevideo]

angry idiot's original post was cutnpasted from here:
http://www.obv.org.uk/questiontime.html
so, given they are not his words it's understandable he can't/won't defend them, or bother responding.

On one hand the original text is encouraging black people to vote (hence the 'most important' Question Time meetings) on the other it is quite clearly inaccurate to describe it as a meeting where all the mayoral candidates will be present.

 

[maomao]

The 2001 Census results showed the White British population standing at 59.79%.

Of Britain? Or of London?

Are white people excluded from this meeting or banned from asking questions? If not then I don't see how this is any different from any political meeting addressed towards a special interest group.

 

[Random One]

can u give a link to those stats academia? Because everything i come up with doesn't match up to what you've put at all.

and nope white people are not excluded from this meeting.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

The 2001 Census results showed the White British population standing at 59.79%.

At what point does an ethnicity become a minority?
When the whities hit 49% do they get invited to the meeting?

what's the definition of a white person when it comes to a census?

 

[academia]

London is the most ethnically diverse city in the UK. Census 2001 population figures suggest that around 40% of Londoners belong to a black or minority ethnic group.

http://www.lho.org.uk/HIL/Population_Groups/Ethnic_Minorities/Ethnicminorities.htm

can't find the official source right now...

 

[TeeJay]

So what about working class only meetings? Genuine question as you seem to have grouped them on the same level as the people this is aimed at?

This hustings has been organised by a bunch of groups with common agendas - its doesn't say you must have dark skin to attend. I am sure that trades unions and people like STWC have organised hustngs as well. I suppose when a certain group organise a hustings they can get more of their members in the audience and probably have some influence over the questions asked and the chairing of the debate - and so they get a chance to extract some public promises and commitments from the various candidates as they all compete with each other to bend over backwards to look good for the audience The event also provides the organisers with more 'status' with ther members and the media and a chance to develop contacts and lobbying opportunities with people who may well end up in power very soon.

I do have some distaste for the odea of separating and labelling people on so-called "racial" lines as separate and distinct races don't exist. However I do accept that "black" and "asian" can be used as shorthand for a lot of other more complex things than 'race' (cultural/ethnic/linguistic/religious/etc) and that some people do choose to self-define themselves as 'black' or 'black british'. Anti-racist campaigning is very important, and there is also a valid role for organisations that seek to ask questions if there are disproportionate numbers of a certain 'group' who are over- or under- represented in some in some way.

 

[TeeJay]

When the whities hit 49% do they get invited to the meeting?

Who says that "whites" are not invited? Why does your skin colour determine if you are interested in the work of these groups or not?

 

[TeeJay]

what's the definition of a white person when it comes to a census?

People can decide which 'box to tick' for themselves, or they can write in their own words, or they decide not to answer the question.

Here is the Office for National Statistics explanation of how the methology and thinking behind the categories: The Classification of Ethnic Groups

 

[Random One]

London is the most ethnically diverse city in the UK. Census 2001 population figures suggest that around 40% of Londoners belong to a black or minority ethnic group.

http://www.lho.org.uk/HIL/Population_Groups/Ethnic_Minorities/Ethnicminorities.htm

can't find the official source right now...

can't see anything on your link to confirm your figures but here are the figures from National Statitistics Census 2001 site: (type in London)

http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/default.asp?nsid=false&CE=True&SE=True

suggesting that London's white population stands quite a bit higher than 59%

 

[Ol Nick]

suggesting that London's white population stands quite a bit higher than 59%

Which isn't what he said.

You've substituted the word "white" for the phrase "White British". Was that a mistake, or a clever use of spin to try and make someone look stupid?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Which isn't what he said.

You've substituted the word "white" for the phrase "White British". Was that a mistake, or a clever use of spin to try and make someone look stupid?

If it was its because the original poster did the same.

 

[Random One]

Which isn't what he said.

You've substituted the word "white" for the phrase "White British". Was that a mistake, or a clever use of spin to try and make someone look stupid?

sorry but what is the difference?

i'm not into playing games to try and make people look stupid. so no it wasn't use of ''spin''.

 

[TeeJay]

The census uses the following "boxes":

WHITE
British
Irish
Other White background
MIXED
White and Black Caribbean
White and Black African
White and Asian
Other Mixed background
ASIAN / ASIAN BRITISH
Indian
Pakistani
Bangladeshi
Other Asian background
BLACK / BLACK BRITISH
Caribbean
African
Other Black background
CHINESE / OTHER ETHNIC GROUP
Chinese
Other ethnic group
NOT STATED

As you can see "White British" excludes "White Irish" and "White Other" - which presumably covers "White Europeans" (including Eastern Europeans etc) and "White Aussies/Kiwis/SouthAfricans" - in fact anyone who wants to call themselves "white" as opposed to "black" or "asian" at all. The answer is entirely up to the person answering and people can choose description whatever they want - you can even write in something entirely made up (Space Alien, Human Being, etc) if you feel like it.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Interesting point TJ.

In case anybody is wondering I aint wasting my breath responding to posters that use insulting, pseudo-racist arguments or points. I don't believe certain posters are interested in discussing/debating the issue or topic but only in suppressing any discussion about Black and Minority Ethnic people and their interests/experiences or concerns.

 

[ernestolynch]

What 'pseudo-racist' arguments, idiot? What does that term mean, anyhoo.

Over to you idiot.

 

[chucky]

White other!!!

I know a lot of "white Scottish" who would have marked the "white other" box.
As the do not class themselves as "white British", I assume some English born Whites would've the same if they were anti- British state.

 

[ernestolynch]

I always tick White Other.

 

[TeeJay]

The 2001 Census included a question about ethnicity that asked people to tick a box to indicate their ethnic group, or to write an answer of their own if no category was suitable. There was no 'Welsh' tick-box on the form, but across Wales 418,000 people wrote 'Welsh' on their form - 14 per cent of the population.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=449

The actual form is worded as follows:

Question 8 What is your ethnic group?
Choose one section from A to E and then tick the appropriate box to indicate your cultural background:

A White
[ ] British
[ ] Irish
[ ] Any other White background, please write in [...................]

etc...
see here:http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/censusform.asp

Interestingly in Scotland the options are:
A White
[ ] Scottish
[ ] Other British
[ ] Irish
[ ] Any other White background, please write in [.....................]
see here: http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/grosweb/grosweb.nsf/pages/cenbi102

Whereas on the NI Irish/British/etc isn't mentioned- ther is a just a "White" box - although there are some additional questions regarding membership or being brought up in various denominations of church.
see here: http://www.nisra.gov.uk/census/censusmethodology/Censusforms.html

 

[Kid_Eternity]

It's tomorrow! And there's a few free tickets left...

Details

The Capitals Black Communities to decide who becomes Mayor

Come to the last and most important of the husting meetings in the race to become Mayor of London.

The meeting is being orgnised by a coaltion of groups: Black Londoners Forum, The 1990 Trust, National Assembly Against Racism and Operation Black Vote.

All the Mayoral candidates will be there, plus a special international guest, the dynamic and trailblazing Mayor of San Francisco Willie Brown.

Date & Time

8th June 2004 at 7PM.

Venue

University College London
Senate House
Malet Street
WC1E

Contact

Please e mail [email protected] or
call 020 8983 5474 for reservations (all tickets are free).

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Apologies in advance to anyone who has to read any ignorant shite from Ernestlynch...

 

[kropotkin]

I agree with what he has written, FWIW.
He, as usual, has expressed it in an intentionally inflammatory style, but the points buried within it are worth it.

The state has organised a special hustings meeting on the lines of race, a characteristic those of us opposed to racism have always argued should never be used to divide us from each other.
This should be seen in the context of the "multicultural" ideology, one that reinforces spurious differences rather than uniting around common interests.
It is an ideology directly to blame for the rise of the far right, as it tends to reinforce the power of self-appointed "community/religious leaders" within their communities, and leads to the segregation we can see all over the country.

There are many on this board, of impeccible anti-fascist credentials, who feel this way. Their opposition to the underlying values and politics behind this event are well-founded and serious.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

It's not organised by the state and what are the numbers of this "many on this board"?

 

[kropotkin]

Ooops, I thought the email address you gave at the end said ...gov.uk but it actually said ...obv.uk

Sorry.

I think the general gist of the post is right though.

And there are a few on here....maybe 15-20?