EDL in Nottingham: Information for Action

[Pickman's model]

There is a danger of being simplistic in analysing EDL and their squalid events. But there are only so many ways of interpreting scores of agressive men singing "you can stick your fucking allah up your arse" and banners saying "no more mosques".

i agree with 'no more mosques'. and 'no more churches', 'no more synagogues', and 'no more temples'.

Take a look at the average attendee, they are not too likely to be capable of in depth theoligical discussion.

yeh, cos they're obviously thick as pigshit

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Pickmans

"i agree with 'no more mosques'. and 'no more churches', 'no more synagogues', and 'no more temples'."

Regardless of any fundementalist athiesm or opposition to freedom of worship on your part, EDL are clearly more myopic in their dislike.

"yeh, cos they're obviously thick as pigshit"

Having trawled through enough of their messageboard drivel and seen enough videos of their behaviour I'd say that's broadly true. I know it's not PC to deride thick people as thick, but the right hate PC anyway. When thick people are nasty bigotted shits then perhaps it is time for the liberal politeness to end.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

If the left would of confronted the Islamic extreamists there would of been no EDL.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

If the left would of confronted the Islamic extreamists there would of been no EDL.

Reactionary bigotry can be a consequence of leftist failings to establish an alternative narrative. But the idea that the gatherings of these nasty losers is actually the direct FAULT of a frankly moribund left is absurd.

 

[Pickman's model]

Pickmans

"i agree with 'no more mosques'. and 'no more churches', 'no more synagogues', and 'no more temples'."

Regardless of any opposition to freedom of worship on your part, EDL are clearly more myopic in their dislike.

"yeh, cos they're obviously thick as pigshit"

Having trawled through enough of their messageboard drivel and seen enough videos of their behaviour I'd say that's broadly true. I know it's not PC to deride thick people as thick, but the right hate PC anyway. and when thick people are nasty bigotted shits then perhaps it is time for the liberal politeness to end.

i disagree. from what i've seen, there's some careful thought behind them. for example, the shirts which suggest that there are more people around the edl than is likely to be the case, naming the 'division' of the edl the wearer's from. also, the edl you see on the street are by no means all who are around on the day. for every person on an edl demo, i'd suggest there's two or three - at least - tucked away in a pub nearby. should push come to shove, their emergence could change the balance of forces quite quickly. this is a level of tactical thinking at which few left-wing groups have arrived.

even if what you say were the case, and i don't doubt they have their share of thick fuckers, they are not a group in the sense the swp or even uaf are a group. they do not have a membership structure, and the people who attend their demos are not necessarily all the same people who post on their boards.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

i disagree. from what i've seen, there's some careful thought behind them. for example, the shirts which suggest that there are more people around the edl than is likely to be the case, naming the 'division' of the edl the wearer's from. also, the edl you see on the street are by no means all who are around on the day. for every person on an edl demo, i'd suggest there's two or three - at least - tucked away in a pub nearby. should push come to shove, their emergence could change the balance of forces quite quickly. this is a level of tactical thinking at which few left-wing groups have arrived.

even if what you say were the case, and i don't doubt they have their share of thick fuckers, they are not a group in the sense the swp or even uaf are a group. they do not have a membership structure, and the people who attend their demos are not necessarily all the same people who post on their boards.

You are separating the thought behind them from the thought-power of the average attendee. I agree that the whole branding exercise is clever and some of the propaganda is superficially clever in trying to say they only oppose extremists. But these are just clarion calls that appeal to large numbers of nasty and stupid elements.

You are correct that for every obvious EDL-ers there are quite a few sympathisers milling around. It doesnt follow that the latter are more intelligent, discerning, theologically or culturally minded. It just makes them milder, more apathetic or cowardly bigots rather than enthusiastic or committed ones.

This is not to say that muslims cant be bigots too of course. Much of the "culture" EDL draw from is the self segregaton that occurs in areas that are heavily blighted environmentally,economically and culturally.

Elements that have been shat on by capitalism are turning around and blaming brown people for why they feel crap about themselves.

It's divide and rule, consciously and deliberately stirred up by the establishment media for many years.

EDL will serve a function for the ruling class and media so long as they provide good copy and prevent any risk of people taking action against the banks that have ripped us off to the tune of £40k per household.

They are certainly not a group in the way SWP are, but the counter protests aint really UAF. I would think the counter protests are less of an organisation than EDL - they are just locals who dont like aggressive thick bigots organising in their towns and cities.

ETA: Beyond branding, I wouldnt overstate the "intelligence" of EDL propaganda too much. How "English" are lions, St George, Teutonic knights and gothic script?

 

[BlackArab]

There is a danger of being simplistic in analysing EDL and their squalid events. But there are only so many ways of interpreting scores of agressive men singing "you can stick your fucking allah up your arse" and banners saying "no more mosques".

Regardless of what the propagandameisters might say, the main appeal of EDL is clearly a dislike of Islam that wantonly fails to discriminate the multifarious shades of how it is practiced.

Take a look at the average attendee, they are not too likely to be capable of in depth theoligical discussion. They talk about defending "culture" (a key aspect of the fascist lexicon) but again, what is their culture? A gaping black hole of post-industrial nothing. I dont blame them neccessarilly for that, it's complicated and a product of capitalism.

But when all they can do is be nasty about others it's time to call them out for their stupidity and uselessness. When they talk about "culture" what they really mean is that they dont like someone else's culture.

I am astonished at how many people are so befuddled by liberalism that they can't see in-your-face bigotry and hatred for what they are.

Fantastic, and your posts increasingly point out the fact that you have the same mindset but with a different target. Why beat around the bush, they are thick, white Nazis right? I doubt think anyone posting here would be stupid enough to realise that they attract a certain type of bigot but what is stupid is to believe this the only type they attract, the wholesale labelling and insulting you and the UAF engage in, is counter-productive and acts as a recruiting sergeant for the moron element.

You continue to smear and insult anyone with enough intelligence to realise that there is more to the EDL than meets the eye but fail to address anything that challenges your own narrow-minded view. Nice work, keep it up! Rather than engage on any sort of intellectual level let's keep churning out the slogans and drive anyone with a different viewpoint into the arms of the arms of the Far Right because if you're not with us, you're against us eh..

 

[BlackArab]

Having trawled through enough of their messageboard drivel and seen enough videos of their behaviour I'd say that's broadly true.

Yes because beliefs and philosophies can be proven by postings on facebook and Youtube. Honestly this stuff is comedy gold.

 

[BlackArab]

At some point, supporters of military parades need confronting and the troops need to know they are not welcome,

still waiting for a clear explanation of this statement Jimmy, not the clumsy backtracking.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

Reactionary bigotry can be a consequence of leftist failings to establish an alternative narrative. But the idea that the gatherings of these nasty losers is actually the direct FAULT of a frankly moribund left is absurd.

Who else is demonstrating against these Islamic extreamists? I once seen members of the swp have ago at a guy from anachist federation for having a leaflet which said bin blair bin bush bin laden. The swp said it was offensive to muslims.
Its all this sucking up and pussey footing around Islam that has made many people think the left is in unity with Islam.
Ive even seen muslims shouting anti semetic slogans at anti war marches and most lefties keeping their mouths shut.

 

[phildwyer]

what is it with imbeciles and they're decision to deliberately mis-spell everything?

Come on. You're doing this on purpose now aren't you?

 

[Slugger_O'Toole]

If the left would of confronted the Islamic extreamists there would of been no EDL.

But the left seem to embrace a religion that oppresses women and gays.

 

[phildwyer]

But the left seem to embrace a religion that oppresses women and gays.

Islamophobes don't give a toss about women and gays though. Red herring.

 

[Stoat Boy]

Islamophobes don't give a toss about women and gays though. Red herring.

It might be but that still does not alter the wider perception/confusion that many people have about the left and its strange relationship with Islam.

If you would just admit it was a case of my enemys enemy then fair enough but many of you dont.

 

[The Black Hand]

Reactionary bigotry can be a consequence of leftist failings to establish an alternative narrative. But the idea that the gatherings of these nasty losers is actually the direct FAULT of a frankly moribund left is absurd.

Well said.

 

[The Black Hand]

To state again : The people opposing EDL are not UAF, they will be ordinary local people who have probably never been to a UAF event in their life. It just suits simplistic narrative to say they are UAF, they are students, anti-free speech whatever.


Despite the "antis" not being perfect - "a plague on both their houses" is misguided liberalism. I have seen it most used on message boards where large swathes of smug people have no actual experience of what they are on about.

EDL represent a dangerous, nasty and stupid streak in our so called "culture". They have little to do with opposing extremism (beyond thinly veiled propaganda) and everything to do with not liking Muslims. Period.

I agree. This 'critisise all efforts to oppose fascism and proto fascism which are not perfect ultra leftism' is frankly absurd and reactionary.

The critics do nothing but whinge, have no effect on the political process period and thus ease their conscience by spouting ultra left crap. Rather, we have to encourage all to engage in anti fascist theory and practice, to learn from the proces and thus improve everyones praxis.

The idea that everything must be perfect is linear narrative crap and a diversion from the class struggle(s).

 

[The Black Hand]

There is a danger of being simplistic in analysing EDL and their squalid events. But there are only so many ways of interpreting scores of agressive men singing "you can stick your fucking allah up your arse" and banners saying "no more mosques".

Regardless of what the propagandameisters might say, the main appeal of EDL is clearly a dislike of Islam that wantonly fails to discriminate the multifarious shades of how it is practiced.

Take a look at the average attendee, they are not too likely to be capable of in depth theoligical discussion. They talk about defending "culture" (a key aspect of the fascist lexicon) but again, what is their culture? A gaping black hole of post-industrial nothing. I dont blame them neccessarilly for that, it's complicated and a product of capitalism.

But when all they can do is be nasty about others it's time to call them out for their stupidity and uselessness. When they talk about "culture" what they really mean is that they dont like someone else's culture.

I am astonished at how many people are so befuddled by liberalism that they can't see in-your-face bigotry and hatred for what they are.

I have sympathy for this pov

 

[Slugger_O'Toole]

Islamophobes don't give a toss about women and gays though. Red herring.

So that makes it alright for the left to ignore the oppression does it ?

 

[phildwyer]

So that makes it alright for the left to ignore the oppression does it ?

It's a matter for Muslims. No-one else's business.

 

[STFC]

Islamophobes don't give a toss about women and gays though. Red herring.

Even those 'Islamophobes' who happen to be female or gay themselves? Wow. They must be those self-haters you hear about.

 

[treelover]

It's a matter for Muslims. No-one else's business.

What a ridiculous comment, what happen in the Uk is everyone business, particualry if the Islamists also ferment radicalism leading to more bombings, etc.

 

[STFC]

It's a matter for Muslims. No-one else's business.

No it's not, you complete idiot.

 

[phildwyer]

If any non-Muslim tries to interfere in Islam, they will provoke a ferocious reaction.

Any reform of Islam has to come from within.

 

[STFC]

If any non-Muslim tries to interfere in Islam, they will provoke a ferocious reaction.

Any reform of Islam has to come from within.

You're mental.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

It's a matter for Muslims. No-one else's business.

Dishonest, self-obsessed, dullard comes out with provocative idiotic remark; do you never stop and think 'what the hell am I doing?'

Louis MacNeice

 

[belboid]

Dishonest, self-obsessed, dullard comes out with provocative idiotic remark; do you never stop and think 'what the hell am I doing?'

Louis MacNeice

he knows exactly what he's doing - trolling.

The more pertinent question would be, do those who engage with him know what they are doing?

 

[phildwyer]

You're mental.

If you imagine for one second that Islam can be reformed by non-Muslims, it is you who are mental.

 

[STFC]

If you imagine for one second that Islam can be reformed by non-Muslims, it is you who are mental.

I don't imagine that, nor have I sad that. All I've said is; you're mental.*






*figure of speech, not intended as a slight against anyone with mental health problems.

 

[phildwyer]

I don't imagine that, nor have I sad that.

In that case, we agree.

Islam may well reform itself. But it will certainly not do so if non-Muslims start interfering. Any outside meddling will be construed as cultural imperialism, not without reason.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I cant stand this stuff about "where are the moderate muslims". Loads of muslims are moderate, even semi apathetic about their faith. Ture there has been no theological revolution on the scale of Lutherism (at least not that we are aware of), but in practice muslims are generally no more "extreme" than (say) Irish Catholics were a generation ago.

Homophobia and sexism are common to loads religious and secular conservatives. The problem is conservatism, not Islam.

Any muslim will rightly tell you that the Koran has a lot of liberal stuff regarding women. Anyone who uses their faith to justify prejudice is a blasphemer. Vast swathes of religion are blasphemous, islamic or otherwise.