Dumbass cyclist morons who overtake traffic on the left

[sir.clip]

FFS !

sorry...

 

[fortyplus]

I freely ignore guidance that quite clearly is more dangerous than the act I'm carrying out .

me too; in my case though it's the guidance (even law) that we have to take those stupid gutter-strip feeder "lanes" to take up position in an ASL - at lights I ALWAYS go up the outside.

 

[cybertect]

But you're not a cyclist so your view on safe procedures on such a carriage carries little weight imo. I've been cycling for ~35 years, i feel i have a fairly good understanding of what keeps me safe.

Excuse me!

I've been a regular cyclist since I was about seven - I'm 40 next year, so that means you have about two extra years of road experience on me.

I used my bike to get to and from school, university and then work from about 1981 onward, including quite a few years of going from the northern reaches of Surrey into the centre of London. I've toured various parts the UK, Switzerland and France on my bike.

It happens that since my last change of job in 2003 I've found it more convenient to use the train to get to work. Even then I've lately been eyeing folding bikes to do the bits to and from the station.

I also drive a car.

Please don't tell me I'm not qualified to comment.

 

[gentlegreen]

sorry...

All I meant was that I keep left well ahead of cyclists

 

[tommers]

It costs money!

I reckon that I make pretty much all of that back at the bike shop.

 

[gentlegreen]

me too; in my case though it's the guidance (even law) that we have to take those stupid gutter-strip feeder "lanes" to take up position in an ASL - at lights I ALWAYS go up the outside.

Although it's weird when there is an ASL, but no obvious way to enter it.

Depending on what the drivers crossing lanes at the last minute, sitting on the clutch are doing, you may find me crossing two lanes to find a safe way in.

Every few years I get mad enough to "remonstrate" with the c*nts who invade the one on the roundabout I use every day, usually I simply proceed onto the roundabout itself to draw the attention of any police vehicles that may be passing. I nearly always proceed on amber if safe to do so because the prats will still try to race me to the next set of lights.

Having illegally intense lights helps

 

[Herbsman.]

Just a couple of things:

No-one suggested that cyclists should ride in the middle of the road all the time. Just that we are supposed to pass slow / stationary traffic on the right.

Cycle lanes don't come into it. I was talking about roads that don't have cycle clanes. I thought that would be obvious.

No-one is making up 'macho rules'.

I would quote the posts that I'm replying to , but this public computer is far too slow... it takes half a second for each letter I type to actually show up...

 

[Ribbit]

You might feel safer, but you may not be. The safest place to be is where you can be seen, and that is often on the outside.

True, if you get hit by an oncoming car it will hurt more and may kill you. But the vision for everyone is so much better that it's less likely.

In slow-moving traffic your place is in the lane - in the primary field of vision of the driver behind you. The gutter isn't an unmarked cycle lane, it's a gutter. When the car behind you wants to pass, it's courteous but not compulsory to pull over to the left - when there's space, preferably without getting trapped between two parked cars - to let them go past on the right; which is also where you should pass them.

Having said that, everyone cycles how they feel most comfortable doing it. I scare the wits out of the ms when I take the lane round a busy junction like Vauxhall Cross or the Elephant.
I've been freaked out a few times when driving by a cyclist on the inside in my blindspot; and I know I'd rather be stuck behind a slow cyclist I could see than accidentally cut up an undertaking cyclist I couldn't see.

I'm less likely to be hit in the middle? How do you work that out? Statistically, I'm twice as likely to be hit in the middle as I not only have one direction of traffic trying to pass me, but two. In either direction. At least if I get cut up on the left-hand side, I can do something about it. If someone pushes me into the other lane in the middle, I'm roadkill.

And by the sound of it the sort of cyclist that will eventually force the authorities to make registration and insurance complusory and screw it up for the rest of us .

That won't happen. It'd be nigh on impossible to have every cyclist (or indeed everyone who owns a bike) registered the same way motorists are.

 

[fortyplus]

I'm less likely to be hit in the middle? How do you work that out? Statistically, I'm twice as likely to be hit in the middle as I not only have one direction of traffic trying to pass me, but two. In either direction. At least if I get cut up on the left-hand side, I can do something about it. If someone pushes me into the other lane in the middle, I'm roadkill.

only the oncoming ones - you're overtaking the ones to your left, they're not trying to pass you. If they are, you're in the wrong place, signal left, move in front of them and let them pass you on the outside.

And "statistically twice as likely" - only if being hit is random.

Whatever, the best place to be depends on the traffic situation, which you are the only person to judge at the time. It's just that in my experience as a cyclist, the gutter is very seldom the best place to be; and in my experience as a driver, it's seldom the best place for a cyclist to be.

 

[sir.clip]

Whatever, the best place to be depends on the traffic situation, which you are the only person to judge at the time. It's just that in my experience as a cyclist, the gutter is very seldom the best place to be; and in my experience as a driver, it's seldom the best place for a cyclist to be.

But if as a cyclist you sat in the middle of a road you would be breaking the highway code..

136: Once moving you should

keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road

 

[gentlegreen]

the best place to be depends on the traffic situation, which you are the only person to judge at the time. It's just that in my experience as a cyclist, the gutter is very seldom the best place to be; and in my experience as a driver, it's seldom the best place for a cyclist to be.

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[cybertect]

But if as a cyclist you sat in the middle of a road you would be breaking the highway code..

136: Once moving you should

keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Excuse me! <snip> Please don't tell me I'm not qualified to comment.

Consider yourself excused

Fair enough on the rest then, I'm surprised that you take the view that you do though. Keep on pedalling....

 

[fortyplus]

But if as a cyclist you sat in the middle of a road you would be breaking the highway code..

136: Once moving you should

keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road

'keep to the left' doesn't mean 'ride in the gutter'. It's a drain, not a lane.

 

[gentlegreen]

'keep to the left' doesn't mean 'ride in the gutter'. It's a drain, not a lane.

I reckon you have the basis of a "road safety rap" - or at the very least a series of haikus

 

[cybertect]

Consider yourself excused

Fair enough on the rest then, I'm surprised that you take the view that you do though. Keep on pedalling....

just my 2p. Cheerz then.

 

[sir.clip]

'keep to the left' doesn't mean 'ride in the gutter'. It's a drain, not a lane.

I'm confused..

I've never ridden in any gutter as far as i know.. oh yeh there was that one time i passed through stoke.. but i'm usually on the left hand side of the road..

 

[CA9I]

I use a bicycle and to be honest I take my chances on the road. That is to say I overtake on the left or right.

I'm not just being bloody minded. It's more a matter of survival. The vast majority OF car/van drivers don't seem to have a clue of how to drive. I've been forced off the road more times than I can count. And getting cut up by vehicles and being forced into oncoming traffic is no joke. If I ever manage to catch the drivers and they'll even wind down they're windows to talk to me, it's allways the same: "I didn't see you".

I agree with Herbsman; driving according to the highway code and in an assertive manner should be the best way to avoid accidents but that's assuming an awful lot of common sense from other road users.

But in defense of left hand overtaking; bicycles are often not as fast as other vehicles on the road and, this being the case, I believe if one is supposed to allow other vehicles to overtake. This means that bicycles are invariably on the left hand side. When we do get a chance to overtake other drivers will go bumper-to-bumper rather than let other vehicles into the middle of the lane(you don't have to be bicyclist to appreciate this ).

Also if oyu are on the right of the lane other vehicles later pick up a turn of speed and will pass on the left of you without signalling, very disconcerting in very busy traffic. I'm more than happy to move back to the left hand side of the lane to let them overtake if they signal but they nearly allways come right up your arse before they sound their horn. And if you want to get over to the left before it becomes an issue you need top check car/van driver's reactions and attention first:- A lot of you use a mobile while driving.

All in all I think it's often easier and less stressful for me and other road users if I overtake on the left.

 

[gentlegreen]

I've been forced off the road more times than I can count. .

You have been very unlucky - this hasn't happened to me in 20 years.

they nearly allways come right up your arse before they sound their horn. .

You actually take notice of idiots sounding their horns ?

One did that the other day after I'd prevented him triggering an advisory speed warning.
He passed close enough for a solid thump on the roof as he passed stupidly close, and the traditional gesture as he drove off.

I get in their way as much as possible - they really don't want blood and guts on their paintwork.

 

[goldenecitrone]

If cars are moving normally there's no chance of overtaking them unless you're Lance Armstrong. If they're trundling along at a snail's pace I'd generally move out to the right to overtake as I don't want some knob opening the door into me as I cycle. However, if I think vehicles are about to speed up I'd overtake on the left so as not to get stuck in the middle of the road with some cunt trying to run me off the road.

 

[Herbsman.]

I'm less likely to be hit in the middle? How do you work that out? Statistically, I'm twice as likely to be hit in the middle

That's theory, but where's the evidence? I'd bet that actual recorded statistics might just prove you wrong...

 

[Herbsman.]

BTW I apologise for the insulting thread title... I don't actually mean it. It was just for provocation! In some situations it is only possible to undertake.

 

[Termite Man]

I conciously thought about how I was over/undertaking cars on the way home today because of this thread . I'd say half the time I undertook and the other half I would overtake but that is all based on the space left by the cars on the left and right hand sides of the roads and the cycle path layout ( one part of my journey has the cycle path go from roadside to pavement and back to roadside then back to pavement again - and I refuse to ride on the pavement because it's too close to unpredicatable pedestrians ) . My conclusion was that it actually feels safer to overtake and the car drivers sem more aware of your approach ( one driver pulled over to the left slightly so I could pass ) , so I reckon herbsman is right

 

[pk]

When I drive my car I deliberately hug the kerb to block cyclists trying to sneak down the inside (and hence leave room for them on the outside where they should be.)

You're the kind of driver I'd crack the windscreens of when I was a courier.

 

[mannybianco]

I think the most dangerous thing for a cyclist is crossing from one side of a lane of tightly spaced busy traffic to the other, yet that is precisely what the official recommendations seem to suggest doing depending on the speed of that traffic. If the traffic is slower than you you are supposed through the lane to the right to overtake, and when the traffic is faster than you you are then supposed to move back to the left to allow them to pass safely. In stop-start london traffic you will be constantly crossing that lane. The alternative of stopping just because the cars next to you have...doesnt bear thinking about

Motorists seems to expect cyclists on the left, and once they do mob rule will decide that is the safest place to be, and most will ride there. And most do - rarely see any cyclists going up the right expect when they have been caught there by the traffic.

If both sides cant be as safe then maybe all the right-siders should shut up and move to the left, or at least stop moaning about the safety implications their choice has thrown at them.

 

[gentlegreen]

You're the kind of driver I'd crack the windscreens of when I was a courier.

Hoisted on your own petard

I rest my case

(I seem to recall crossing swords over the same issue last year some time)

Just thought - it must be handy for those who like to hop onto the pavement when finally forced to stop ....

 

[gentlegreen]

The alternative of stopping just because the cars next to you have...doesnt bear thinking about

why ?

I like to pull up alongside motorists and wind them up

It's all about foresight and not being taken by surprise.

You don't do anything in traffic you can't possibly complete.

The dangerous activity we're talking about here is cyclists squeezing into a gap on the left hand side and unexpectedly encountering an obstacle - e.g. a door or a parked car - what then ?

If it's not safe to overtake, it's not safe to "undertake" either.

 

[Herbsman.]

You're the kind of driver I'd crack the windscreens of when I was a courier.

He's the kind of driver I'd put my thumb up to when I was a courier (i.e. now). I'd love it if all drivers stayed by the kerb when traffic's crawling or still. I'd also love it if all drivers didn't block exits/junctions when traffic's crawling or still. That's one thing that f*cking makes my blood boil.

On the high street parallel to the street that I live on, all the exits have those yellow boxes on them. Yet the cunts still fucking block them off. I don't think many drivers know what yellow boxes are for fucking cunts

 

[scifisam]

Someone else (I forget who, my apologies) mentioned the number of bus lanes in London. Those are what I generally cycle down, so in order to cycle to the right of traffic when the bus line cuts out, I would have to cut in front of moving traffic before cycling next to them. Cars also often drive so close to the centre line that to cycle to the right of them, I would actually have to cycle in the other lane, full of cars going in the opposite direction.

The main dangers are the high-sided or long vehicles, the buses, lorries and white vans. Coming up on the left, I don't undertake them - not worth the risk. I just stay behind or occasionally get off and push. If I were to the right of traffic, I'd have to carry on cycling, wouldn't I? Not safe (or legal) to stop in the middle of the road, and not possible to get off and push. But those big vehicles have blind spots on the right-hand side as well as the left.

I also don't quite get the concept of 'overtaking' with regard to cyclists. When I'm sharing a lane with motor vehicles (rather than being in a cycle lane or bus/cycle lane), in London, I'm generally going faster than the motor vehicles. So should I always cycle on the right, since I'm always overtaking? How about when there are stop-start cycle lanes or cycle/bus lanes? Should I swerve in and out of traffic to be on the right, then in my own lane, then on the right, and so on?

Thanks though, Herbsman, because, despite my counter-arguments, I had never never even thought about overtaking on the right before, or heard of undertaking except for those already dead. Next time I'm on a road where it's a possibility (which is actually very rare), I'll remember this, and see if it is safe or does make a difference.

 

[Herbsman.]

Thanks though, Herbsman, because, despite my counter-arguments, I had never never even thought about overtaking on the right before, or heard of undertaking except for those already dead. Next time I'm on a road where it's a possibility (which is actually very rare), I'll remember this, and see if it is safe or does make a difference.

Well the main thing is that you do what you feel is safest... if you feel safer overtaking on the left then that's up to you, I wouldn't have anything against you for that and I certainly wouldn't think you were a 'dumbass moron' or any of the things I called people in the original post...

I only said all that offensive stuff 'cos I was a bit pissed off that most of the cyclists I share the road with, always overtake slow/still motor traffic on the left, and I've had cars pull over to the right and almost knock me off because of it. It mostly happens when traffic is moving slowly rather than when it's stationary. Now that I'm sat here I can't remember exactly what happened or who did what, but, all I remember is that someone cut me up while I was overtaking because there was another cyclist overtaking them at the same time on the other side...