dumb republicans on the streets of Glasgow.

[Nigel]

But nobody - well certainly not me - is refuting that Northern Ireland was in anyway democratic before Civil Rights, are they?!

I'm saying the idea, inferred by some republicans I think, that Northern Ireland today is not democratic is simply not true.

And yes a different strategy has to be taken by republicans (not that their previous strategy which resulted mostly in the murder of their Protestant neighbours and/or innocent civilians was right or logical in the first place)!

Will the republican movement change?

I doubt it. Too many of them will not be able to resist the temptation to carry on being career terrorists and gangsters.

They must hate the idea of peace breaking out. Being committed to peace might mean having to let that SUV go. Not being able to control you manor through fear. No more expensive lifestyle; nice big houses, luxury holidays and being in charge.

Aw shit!

The poor bastards.

The crushing of the Civil Rights Movement is what created and perpetrated the recent troubles. Discrimination against Catholics is still prevelent today.
Ethnic cleansing and intimidation, predominantely fron Loyalists/Unionists, but also from Catholics means that a free society still needs to be fought for.

Unlike your friends in loyalist para-militaries, I don't think that anyone can deny that the Provos, from the 80's onwards and the INLA after Gino's Influence were/are not political soldiers. Most who are POW come out with Degrees or similar qualifications, through the dirty protests and hunger strikes they kept their dignity, and although not winning all their rights won consolidations and respect from their adversaries in the British Establishment. This cannot be said for these neanderthal thugs in the loyalist camp, who spent most of their time wanking themselves off to porn & power lifting mags, pumping themselves up with steroids, and whose
attempts at hunger strikes begin after breakfast and end before dinner.
Engraciating themselves with Neo-Nazis & Yardy Drug Dealers, I doubt fits into the level of community work that Republicans, against all the odds commit themselves to with much success.

 

[revol68]

The crushing of the Civil Rights Movement is what created and perpetrated the recent troubles. Discrimination against Catholics is still prevelent today.
Ethnic cleansing and intimidation, predominantely fron Loyalists/Unionists, but also from Catholics means that a free society still needs to be fought for.

Unlike your friends in loyalist para-militaries, I don't think that anyone can deny that the Provos, from the 80's onwards and the INLA after Gino's Influence were/are not political soldiers. Most who are POW come out with Degrees or similar qualifications, through the dirty protests and hunger strikes they kept their dignity, and although not winning all their rights won consolidations and respect from their adversaries in the British Establishment. This cannot be said for these neanderthal thugs in the loyalist camp, who spent most of their time wanking themselves off to porn power lifting mags, pumping themselves up with steroids, and whose
attempts at hunger strikes begin after breakfast and end before dinner.
Engraciating themselves with Neo-Nazis & Yardy Drug Dealers, I doubt fits into the level of community work that Republicans, against all the odds commit themselves to with much success.

this bullshit!

the issue of civil rights and it's subsequent beating off the streets may have allowed the Provos a great recrutiment tool but it had fuck all to do with their aims. The Provo's were never interested in equal rights within Northern Ireland and their policy of destabilisation throughout the 70's is perfectly in keeping with that, they sought to make the North ungovernable and to provoke a situation of total polarisation.

Your points about loyalist prisoners are largely true but this in no way explains away the million odd people who still have no desire to declare themselves Irish. Of course it's much easier for republicans to focus on the absurdities of loyalism than to engage with ordinary prods and accept they have no right to force them into a united ireland.

 

[Nigel]

Gfa????!!!@@£

I thought that was what the GFA was all about.

As I have said before on this bulletin board and others, a new strategy must be put forard by socialists/Anarchists/Communists et al.

The IRA has said that the war is over, from their Christmas/New years message that much needs to be done by those involved in the political process. Part of the political process for Sinn Feinn is implementing a Neo-Liberal contemporay Social Democratic agenda, which includes selling their soul for the Euro.

This Centrist policy, left wing dogma and rhetoric while taking a pro-capitalist position, needs to be seen as adversaral to those struggling for a just and decent society.

 

[Nigel]

No Justice No Peace!!!!!!

this bullshit!

the issue of civil rights and it's subsequent beating off the streets may have allowed the Provos a great recrutiment tool but it had fuck all to do with their aims. The Provo's were never interested in equal rights within Northern Ireland and their policy of destabilisation throughout the 70's is perfectly in keeping with that, they sought to make the North ungovernable and to provoke a situation of total polarisation.

Your points about loyalist prisoners are largely true but this in no way explains away the million odd people who still have no desire to declare themselves Irish. Of course it's much easier for republicans to focus on the absurdities of loyalism than to engage with ordinary prods and accept they have no right to force them into a united ireland.

The very nature of Partition breeds inequality?!!!11

 

[nacho novo]

I don't think that anyone can deny that the Provos, from the 80's onwards and the INLA after Gino's Influence were/are not political soldiers. Most who are POW come out with Degrees or similar qualifications, through the dirty protests and hunger strikes they kept their dignity

So its 'dignified' to reduce women and children to a molten mass thats shovelled off the street and placed in plastic bags? THEN, once convicted as murderers they then decide to live in an excrement covered jail cell, just because they couldn't wear their own clothes.



Very dignified.

 

[Nigel]

As far as I am concerned it is not only a right, but a duty and responsibility to fight and defend yourself against bullies and oppressors.

 

[revol68]

The very nature of Partition breeds inequality?!!!11

and here we get to the Holy Mantra of nationalist mythology, having decided that equality can never be achieved living under partition, republicans now have carte blanche to inflcit their murderous nationalist discourse on all those who stand in it's way, likewise loyalists hold they can never have equality in a united ireland and therefore have a green light to slaugther any lundy who dares open the gates, rotten prods and rebelious taigs are now legitimate targets. Meanwhile the vast majority of people struggle to get by in life whilst being written off as colatral damage.

Total fuckwittery!

And would you say there is still substantial oppression of catholics in the 6 counties?

"well of course there is!"

why?

"well we still live in a partitionist statelet"

repeat until u lose your mind, humanity and all critical faculties and are now prepared to see god knows how many Omaghs.

 

[Nigel]

At the end of the day, I can't see that going over the much trodden ground is going to convince you me or anyone else on this Bulletin Board.

I have expressed much crticism of Provo strategy.
What do you see as alternatives.

P.S. You have'nt answered my PM

 

[fanta]

The crushing of the Civil Rights Movement is what created and perpetrated the recent troubles. Discrimination against Catholics is still prevelent today.
Ethnic cleansing and intimidation, predominantely fron Loyalists/Unionists, but also from Catholics means that a free society still needs to be fought for.

Unlike your friends in loyalist para-militaries, I don't think that anyone can deny that the Provos, from the 80's onwards and the INLA after Gino's Influence were/are not political soldiers. Most who are POW come out with Degrees or similar qualifications, through the dirty protests and hunger strikes they kept their dignity, and although not winning all their rights won consolidations and respect from their adversaries in the British Establishment. This cannot be said for these neanderthal thugs in the loyalist camp, who spent most of their time wanking themselves off to porn & power lifting mags, pumping themselves up with steroids, and whose
attempts at hunger strikes begin after breakfast and end before dinner.
Engraciating themselves with Neo-Nazis & Yardy Drug Dealers, I doubt fits into the level of community work that Republicans, against all the odds commit themselves to with much success.

There can be no doubt that it was the gross inequality, gerrymandering and second class status of Catholics that led to the Troubles.

But to suggest that was what also solely perpetuated the conflict is wrong.

The blinkered, militaristic conservative nationalism of the republican movement also played a large part in continuing unnecessary violence. Their quite deliberate murder of people simply because they were unionist and Protestant and/or innocent civilians shows their sectarian credentials and their dishonesty - in spite of their pseudo-left wing class rhetoric.

You're a foolish idiot with your cheap and tacky inferences that I support loyalist thugs as well by the way. You have no fucking evidence for this, in fact you know it is utter crap.

You just can't bear to admit that both loyalist and republican gunmen and bombers are fucking gangsters bullying and killing the very people they purport to be liberating.

Community work my arse. Everybody knows what Gerry's baseball bat brigade do to their community.

They're both cunts. And you're an even sillier cunt for trying to suggest otherwise.

 

[fanta]

The very nature of Partition breeds inequality?!!!11

Wow.

Another slogan!

That is what is needed: more slogans!

Yeah, slogans will solve the problem.

Never mind jobs, housing, education, healthcare and universal suffrage because they won't help, will they?

No, they won't, but slogans will!

Hurrah for slogans!

Well here is another one:

You Muppet!

 

[Nigel]

Why The Insults!!!!!

Why are you refering to insults.
Why are you infering that I blindly accept everything that Sinn Feinn say.
One position that I hold is that the NILP should be accepted into the British Labour Party. Although I think that Tommy Sherridens and the Scot Millies initiative with the PUP was naive and foolhardy, that at the end of the day the UVF are supremicist scum & thugs and lackeys of the British Establishment and Imperialism it was a brave attempt. Hardly an unbending Republican Line: Although My allegiances go to the Irish Republican Socialist Tradtion, does not mean my support for those in word and deed who are proggressive and pro class struggle, even if I don't agree with their outlook.

You can continue a slagging match or move on to something constructive in this conversation. If it is the former I'm going to leave you to your own devices.

WHY DO YOU CALL YOURSELF FANTA, IF YOU ARE'NT SYMPATHETIC TO THE ORANGE ORDER????

 

[Nigel]

Show Me The Evidence???

The very nature of Partition breeds inequality?!!!11

If this is'nt true
SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE????????\

 

[fanta]

WHY DO YOU CALL YOURSELF FANTA, IF YOU ARE'NT SYMPATHETIC TO THE ORANGE ORDER????

Because I'm syrupy and sweet.

If this is'nt true
SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE????????\

Partition has been a disaster; but even if it hadn't happened tribalism and hatred would have probably led to the same thing.

 

[Nigel]

If ifs and ands were pots and pans

PROBABLY being the appropriate word!!!!

 

[Nigel]

ANti FASCIsm/RAcism

Do you think that there could be a strategy to involve 'your' people in this initiative. Unionists and the ethos of protestantism would oppose such ideologies.

 

[Nigel]

Fascism and Racism that is!!!!!!

 

[fanta]

PROBABLY being the appropriate word!!!!

Ok, what do you think would have happened had Ireland been united against the wish of a million Protestants in the north?

And let your answer take into account the raw sectarian antipathy between both sides dating back to the religious wars of the 17th century and which is still all too prevalent today.

(And try and dispense with facile sloganeering, ok?)

Oh boy, I can't wait to hear this erudite and enlightening response!

 

[fanta]

Do you think that there could be a strategy to involve 'your' people in this initiative. Unionists and the ethos of protestantism would oppose such ideologies.

They aren't 'my' people. Neither side are 'my' people.

I wasn't born there, I just grew up there.

I'm not a Prod, Catholic or even religious.

I know people fropm both sides; some are ok, some are one-sided, sectarian, bitter and politically naive.

Sound familiar?

 

[Nigel]

Ok, what do you think would have happened had Ireland been united against the wish of a million Protestants in the north?

And let your answer take into account the raw sectarian antipathy between both sides dating back to the religious wars of the 17th century and which is still all too prevalent today.

(And try and dispense with facile sloganeering, ok?)

Oh boy, I can't wait to hear this erudite and enlightening response![/
QUOTE]

Equality of opprtunity would be establisahed in Ulster, farier land distribution, Catholics not discriminated against in the proud tradition Ulster had for Engineering and Manufacture. Eventually the Protestant working class would find no interest in supporting British Colonialism, which has treated them almost as bad as their catholic Countrymen(women)

 

[Nigel]

Ok, what do you think would have happened had Ireland been united against the wish of a million Protestants in the north?

And let your answer take into account the raw sectarian antipathy between both sides dating back to the religious wars of the 17th century and which is still all too prevalent today.

(And try and dispense with facile sloganeering, ok?)

Oh boy, I can't wait to hear this erudite and enlightening response![/
QUOTE]

Equality of opprtunity would be establisahed in Ulster, farier land distribution, Catholics not discriminated against in the proud tradition Ulster had for Engineering and Manufacture. Eventually the Protestant working class would find no interest in supporting British Colonialism, which has treated them almost as bad as their catholic Countrymen(women)(transgender type people)

 

[Nigel]

By the way, do you friends in the Orange Order think about the demise of their industry. If they were more concerned about that than attacking Taigs in and around Sunnigdale, Anglo Irish Agreement and the recent debacle of socio-economic reform surrounding the GFA. Then they would'nt be in the shit they are now.

 

[Dilzybhoy]

More Republicans on the streets of Glasgow!!!

Those f**kin' tarriers are at it again.

Can nothing be done about these upstarts!!!

Bloody Sunday Commemoration
Sunday 29th January
Assemble 10.30am
Shamrock St
Glasgow

Speakers in attendance

Organised by the West of Scotland Band Alliance…