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Dulwich Hamlet vs Bath City: Sat. 2nd Nov, 2019

Roger D

Well-Known Member
Is this true?
Yes. I have been a shareholder since about 1995. In that time I have had zero input into the footballing side of things - and rightly so. The Football Committee have managed the footballing side of the club for as long as I have been around - since 1991 - and were certainly doing so before that date.

(It got a bit blurred when the Property Developers were effectively running the club as I believe they took decisions that would usually have been reserved for the Football Committee.)
 

B.I.G

Well-Known Member
Yes. I have been a shareholder since about 1995. In that time I have had zero input into the footballing side of things - and rightly so. The Football Committee have managed the footballing side of the club for as long as I have been around - since 1991 - and were certainly doing so before that date.

(It got a bit blurred when the Property Developers were effectively running the club as I believe they took decisions that would usually have been reserved for the Football Committee.)
But is it true now?

Shareholders control every football club I have ever known, the ones with the most shares that is.
 

Roger D

Well-Known Member
I believe it is still true.

Many of the biggest shareholders are also on the Football Committee so would be involved in any footballing decision. They are consulted as Football Committee members not as shareholders. The Football Committee is a one person, one vote scenario. Having never attended a Football Committee meeting I have no idea whether or not the Committee would defer to the wishes of the biggest shareholder.

However, from memory, our second biggest individual share holder is/was Nick McCormack. He is not on the Football Committee so would not get consulted on any footballing decisions.

The biggest shareholders have always controlled the Limited Company. The footballing side has been devolved to the Football Committee for years. Which is a good thing as for many years our biggest shareholder had no real interest in running the football club. Permitting the key shareholders to run the footballing side is something I would strongly oppose.
 

B.I.G

Well-Known Member
I believe it is still true.

Many of the biggest shareholders are also on the Football Committee so would be involved in any footballing decision. They are consulted as Football Committee members not as shareholders. The Football Committee is a one person, one vote scenario. Having never attended a Football Committee meeting I have no idea whether or not the Committee would defer to the wishes of the biggest shareholder.

However, from memory, our second biggest individual share holder is/was Nick McCormack. He is not on the Football Committee so would not get consulted on any footballing decisions.

The biggest shareholders have always controlled the Limited Company. The footballing side has been devolved to the Football Committee for years. Which is a good thing as for many years our biggest shareholder had no real interest in running the football club. Permitting the key shareholders to run the footballing side is something I would strongly oppose.
I don't believe its true.
 

liamdhfc

Well-Known Member
The Directors control the majority of shares through a separate company. These are the shares acquired from Mr McCormack. Those shares are not for sale.

The Trust are also a significant shareholder.

Things are taking a little longer to sort out than they should have done but meetings will be called shortly but I'm not privy to any date.

The shareholders should all be showing on Companies House in the Confirmation Statement filed on 14 August. Certificates were delayed to complete a transaction so I will check with the Chairman when that is likely to happen.

All shares are in the hands of fans or fans representatives.

The committee is no more and the Directors now make all decisions. The number of Directors will increase shortly.
 

Roger D

Well-Known Member
Apologies Liam, I wasn't aware the committee no longer held sway over footballing issues. My mistake.

Edited to say I have no concern at the current directors running the footballing side. Their conduct over the past few seasons shows they are worthy of my trust.
 

Son of Roy

Really?
I just think it's time for a change. 'Sacking' is a clumsy way of putting it, but I think, given the money we're spending, it's got to be time for a change. I was sat in a car on the way home yesterday and each of us said that it's hard to get excited about DHFC these days - I just think it's in dire need to freshening up.
I wonder if this is Ian's view too? I agree our league position ought to be better. The manager has provided a period of stability badly needed after years of difficulties. Dont we have two managers (Junior too)? I used to think we needed Gav more than he needed the club. Perhaps that has changed since the academy / reserves find it more difficult to make the first team since we got promoted? Years ago a mid table Charlton sacked Curbishly. They have not been in the top division since. Who would you rather have McCann or McKimm or Wheeler or Brennan?
 
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B.I.G

Well-Known Member
I wonder if this is Ian's view too? I agree our league position ought to be better. The manager has provided a period of stability badly needed after years of difficulties. Dont we have two managers (Junior too)? I used to think we needed Gav more than he needed the club. Perhaps that has changed since the academy / reserves find it more difficult to make the first team since we got promoted? Years ago a mid table Charlton sacked Curbishly. They have not been in the top division since. Who would you rather have McCann or McKimm or Wheeler or Brennan?
McKimm :p
 

tonysingh

Random Clever and Witty Strapline
I wonder if this is Ian's view too? I agree our league position ought to be better. The manager has provided a period of stability badly needed after years of difficulties. Dont we have two managers (Junior too)? I used to think we needed Gav more than he needed the club. Perhaps that has changed since the academy / reserves find it more difficult to make the first team since we got promoted? Years ago a mid table Charlton sacked Curbishly. They have not been in the top division since. Who would you rather have McCann or McKimm or Wheeler or Brennan?
Garland

:D
 

Blitzwalker

Well-Known Member
I wonder if this is Ian's view too? I agree our league position ought to be better. The manager has provided a period of stability badly needed after years of difficulties. Dont we have two managers (Junior too)? I used to think we needed Gav more than he needed the club. Perhaps that has changed since the academy / reserves find it more difficult to make the first team since we got promoted? Years ago a mid table Charlton sacked Curbishly. They have not been in the top division since. Who would you rather have McCann or McKimm or Wheeler or Brennan?
Curbishley resigned with a year left on his contract and most definitely wasn’t sacked. He thought he’d taken the club as far as he could (he was right) and although there was an idiot minority of Charlton fans who thought he should go as we played “boring football”, most of us knew what his departure would mean. The very next season, sure enough, relegation followed.
 

B.I.G

Well-Known Member
Curbishley resigned with a year left on his contract and most definitely wasn’t sacked. He thought he’d taken the club as far as he could (he was right) and although there was an idiot minority of Charlton fans who thought he should go as we played “boring football”, most of us knew what his departure would mean. The very next season, sure enough, relegation followed.
There were better managers around than Dowie and Les Reed though!

Alan “aim for forty points” / “catch the other team on a bad day” Curbishley was done as shown by his stellar performance elsewhere as a manager before going into early retirement.
 

MrFab_JP

Member
Has Rose's record generally been that of finishing higher than the previous season?

Is there any reason to think that the general upward curve will end any time soon (current poor form accepted) and is it the end of the world if it does?
No manger is untouchable and that should always be the case but I think Rose has earned the opportunity to continue the progression.

Older fans may know better, but has there been a period when we have been as stable on the pitch (results wise over 10 years) compared to now, is there not a huge risk in change for change sake?

I admit my knowledge of other mangers in and around the league is not great, who would be able to come in a do a better job?

SEASON LEAGUE P W D L F A P POS
2009-10 ISTH-1S 42 14 12 16 57 64 54 12/22
2010-11 ISTH-1S 42 19 8 15 79 59 65 5/22
2011-12 ISTH-1S 40 26 8 6 73 26 86 3/21
2012-13 ISTH-1S 42 28 5 9 91 42 89 1/22
2013-14 ISTH-P 46 25 7 14 96 65 82 6/24
2014-15 ISTH-P 46 21 13 12 66 51 76 4/24
2015-16 ISTH-P 46 23 12 11 93 58 81 5/24
2016-17 ISTH-P 46 22 14 10 89 55 80 3/24
2017-18 ISTH-P 46 28 11 7 91 41 95 2/24
2018-19 NAT-S 42 13 10 19 52 65 49 14/24
 

Pink Panther

Well-Known Member
Has Rose's record generally been that of finishing higher than the previous season?

Is there any reason to think that the general upward curve will end any time soon (current poor form accepted) and is it the end of the world if it does?
No manger is untouchable and that should always be the case but I think Rose has earned the opportunity to continue the progression.

Older fans may know better, but has there been a period when we have been as stable on the pitch (results wise over 10 years) compared to now, is there not a huge risk in change for change sake?

I admit my knowledge of other mangers in and around the league is not great, who would be able to come in a do a better job?

SEASON LEAGUE P W D L F A P POS
2009-10 ISTH-1S 42 14 12 16 57 64 54 12/22
2010-11 ISTH-1S 42 19 8 15 79 59 65 5/22
2011-12 ISTH-1S 40 26 8 6 73 26 86 3/21
2012-13 ISTH-1S 42 28 5 9 91 42 89 1/22
2013-14 ISTH-P 46 25 7 14 96 65 82 6/24
2014-15 ISTH-P 46 21 13 12 66 51 76 4/24
2015-16 ISTH-P 46 23 12 11 93 58 81 5/24
2016-17 ISTH-P 46 22 14 10 89 55 80 3/24
2017-18 ISTH-P 46 28 11 7 91 41 95 2/24
2018-19 NAT-S 42 13 10 19 52 65 49 14/24
We've never had this level of sustained high league finishes/promotions on the field during my lifetime. You need to go back to at least the 1950s for that, and even then I think there were the odd seasons of finishing in the lower half of the table, albeit with much more fixture congestion caused by a greater number of cup competitions, all with replays, and having to play midweek daytime fixtures with weakened sides due to lack of floodlights.

Last season was relatively poor, but that was mitigated by the ground crisis that made life difficult for everyone throughout the club. I had expected to have more league points/wins to our credit by this stage of this season, but given the amount of credit in the bank accrued by the manager over the previous ten seasons I for one am not going to start bellyaching over three months of mediocrity.

Let's just say Gavin suddenly attracts an offer too good to refuse, either a first team job at a bigger club or even an academy director role at a Football League club. The other club does everything through the right channels, we as a club feel duty bound to let him consider the offer and next week he's suddenly gone.

As you say ""Who would be able to come in and do a better job?" That's not a rhetorical question, but there's no simple answer either. You might consider all sorts of possibilities. First up you might say "Someone like Steve King." Managed several clubs successfully at our level: Lewes, Farnborough, Whitehawk, Welling. He's also been with our club before as youth team manager, so he knows the club, but he's just taken the Dartford job. Then you might look at other people who've managed in this division recently who are actually available at the moment: Bobby Wilkinson, Lee Bradbury..... hmmm. Secondly you might say "How about Peter Adeniyi?" Former Hamlet captain, popular player, made a very bright start to his management career with Carshalton, a promotion followed by a second place in the next season at the higher level; but this is a much bigger job with fairly high expectations now, and he remains a fairly inexperienced manager. Thirdly you might say "Hey, we're a big club now, and we're ambitious, we should be looking at someone who's already been to the National Division and got the T-shirt", as Havant did in appointing Paul Doswell. Garry Hill springs to mind as an easy example, having recently been sacked by Ebbsfleet. Finally you might consider a well known ex-pro with all the coaching badges looking to make a start to a managerial career, which is more or less what Billericay have done with Jamie O'Hara in amongst all the other lunacy surrounding the club. Jimmy Bullard at Leatherhead was another recent example. (I thought he actually did a pretty good job there, inheriting a struggling team with what appeared to be a modest budget at the time.) However all of those options still rely on identifying the right candidate for our club, and all are fraught with hazards. If we were in a position where we no longer had a manager we'd have to take a decision, but I find it incredible that some people seem to be getting restless already.

I accept that there have been some relatively disappointing seasons in that sequence above. The first one after Erhun Oztumer left (2014/15) when we seemed to adopt a much more cautious style of play and faded badly over the final months of the season despite qualifying for the Premier Division lay-offs for the first time. Then the one immediately after, when we appeared to have a championship winning squad on paper with the likes of Waldren, Scannell, Moss and other obvious big money players, but stumbled into the play-offs despite losing the final league match thanks to other results going in our favour. However despite the disappointments it remains a fact that in each and every season under Gavin Rose - ten seasons so far - there has been a measurable tangible improvement on the previous one. In every single season without fail we have either finished in a higher league position, gone a stage further in the play-offs, or been in a higher division.

Of course the bar is fairly low this time, we only need to finish 13th to sustain the sequence, and I don't think anyone would really be content with that including the team management. However there's already another tangible improvement on the FA Cup front, with our first appearance in the competition proper this century.

No manager should be untouchable, I grumble about results and performances falling short of my hopes or expectations just like anyone else, but personally I still trust Gavin to get it right in the end because so far he always has in my view.
 

StephenMac

Well-Known Member
No manager should be untouchable, I grumble about results and performances falling short of my hopes or expectations just like anyone else, but personally I still trust Gavin to get it right in the end because so far he always has in my view.
Great post full stop, but you're absolutely right about having a moan and a grumble. We all do it and it's a fairly intrinsic part of being a football supporter. I'd rather not have dissent shut down by blind support of any manager though or indeed have any moans interpreted as "Gav out".

Gav in.
 

MrFab_JP

Member
Pink Panther

Appreciate the considered response, my own thoughts and feelings coincidence with your own.

Performances and results go up and down, as fans of course we have every right to be frustrated and disappointed when it's not going well, I'm sure we all want to see the team play well and win, as do the management.

Roll on Friday!
 

Blitzwalker

Well-Known Member
There were better managers around than Dowie and Les Reed though!

Alan “aim for forty points” / “catch the other team on a bad day” Curbishley was done as shown by his stellar performance elsewhere as a manager before going into early retirement.
Totally agree re Dowie especially. That was Richard Murray trying to be a smart-arse and wanting to put one over on Simon Jordan. That went well then.

I’d have liked to have seen them appoint an experienced manager - someone like George Graham - to stabilise matters and perhaps mentor another young manager.

Curbishley probably had run his course and I suspect thought as much himself.
 
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Pink Panther

Well-Known Member
*edit: somehow posted this on the wrong thread

I've just been looking up more information on the two new players whose sudden appearance in the starting XI on Friday aroused considerable debate.

Nathan Smith began his career in non-league with spells at Enfield, Waltham Forest and Potters Bar Town before a successful trial at Yoevil aged 21 led to a substantial professional career. He holds the club record of 259 Football League appearances at Yeovil over two spells with three seasons at Chesterfield in between, left Yeovil for Dagenham around this time last season, then became a free agent in the summer. He seems to be primarily a centre back, which in my view is the weakest area in our squad and has been since Weatherstone, Hayles and Acheampong all departed in summer last year, although of course he played at left back the other evening. He turns 33 in January and given his depth of experience I'd say he's potentially a very useful recruit for the position vacated by Michael Chambers in the summer, which Christian Smith (whom we signed as a midfielder) has been filling recently, rather than keeping Jack Connors out of the side.

Ben Dempsey turns 20 later this month and has so far made one League Cup appearance for Charlton Athletic. He's here on a one month loan. I was very impressed with him on Friday considering his inexperience and being thrust into a new team for a big match. I reckon he has all the attributes to make the grade at Football league level.

Dulwich Hamlet announce double signing
 
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