Dulwich Hamlet v East Thurrock 8/8/18

Discussion in 'Dulwich Hamlet FC' started by Scolly, Aug 7, 2018.

  1. EDC

    EDC A Slightly Less Invisible Cyber Fan These Days

    That was a very enjoyable evening and the atmosphere in the second half was brilliant.

    I've never seen a player exit the pitch as fast as Cookie.
     
  2. Nivag

    Nivag Well-Known Member

    I thought he must have been on a promise or needed to catch the last train home
     
  3. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    I don't think there's to much doubt that this Hamlet team can survive in this league after that performance. Hamlet made four changes to Saturday's starting XI and adopted a far more adventurous attacking approach right from the start, albeit against a more limited side than Welling. For the first half East Thurrock looked like a side that's already had two seasons in this division, but isn't likely to be progressing any further anytime soon. They were hardworking and well organised but offered little else. It took Hamlet a while to get the measure of them, and with half an hour gone we got hit by a real sucker punch. A vigorous counter-attack down the left by Green ended with him being crowded out; the ball was relayed back via Vose to Pappoe, who was made to look horribly ponderous as an opponent pounced upon him to steal the ball and race away before slotting past Edwards from just inside the box. We'd had a few chances without coming especially close to a goal until right on half time when a vicious free kick from out wide was fired directly into the goalmouth by Cook, blocked, then cleared. We'd had another nervous moment just before that when a visiting player let fly with a shot from distance and a defender's block was accompanied by a big shout for handball. Personally I was too far away to judge that one, and thankfully the officials weren't convinced.

    The way Hamlet stepped up the tempo after the break without sacrificing any composure or accuracy in passing the ball was magnificent. Our brilliant attacking play led to an avelanche of chances as the visitors were completely outplayed. Their keeper pulled off a string of fine saves, as well as wasting as much time as possible with the standard spoiling tactics. Tomlin missed an absolute sitter, somehow shovelling the ball high over the crossbar from right in front of goal inside the six yard box. We should have equalised when a Cook header clearly came down over the line off the underside of the bar, and a first miscued attempt to block it actually took the ball further beyond the line before it was hacked away with the linesman unmoved, leading to a rare chance at the other end seconds later which Edwards thwarted. Finally the deadlock was broken with twenty minutes to go as a Carew free kick was launched deep to the far post where Okuonghae headed it back for Tomlin to launch into a diving header that sent the ball in off the post. The scorer was immediately substituted, apparently turning an ankle after leaping into the air and landing awkwardly in celebration! By now the big guns had come off the bench in the shape of May and Akinyemi, and deep into stoppage time the two combined as the former flicked on a long ball with his head for the latter to run through, hold off the attentions of two defenders, and coolly lift the ball past the advancing keeper to win us the match. Ironically the final whistle might have sounded before that, had the keeper not wasted a good minute or so in one incident alone, meticulously retying his bootlace and adjusting his gloves. The referee stood with his arm aloft holding his wrist to indicate that he'd stopped the clock, and next time there was a goal kick he was right alongside the keeper telling him to get on with it. There was an interesting contrast in styles between last night's referee and the one at Welling on Saturday. Following the eleven (?) yellow cards in Saturday's match I'm fairly certain there were none at all last night, and although one or two visiting players might have been booked for persistent minor infrongements I felt last night's ref handled the game far better and exerted a far more obvious degree of control without putting himself in the spotlight.

    Team (4-3-3): Edwards - Ming, Okuonghae, Pappoe, Green - Ferguson, Kargbo, Vose - Cook, Tomlin, Figueira. Subs: Carew (for Ferguson), May (for Tomlin), Akinyemi (for Cook), Taylor, Lawrence (not used). Att.727
     
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  4. YTC

    YTC Human Man

    It’s done by the league centrally, we have to text updates to them. Weird to be going backwards after going up. Ah well.
     
    GregDHFC likes this.
  5. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    This league seems to be quite good at implementing annoying administrative measures. Firstly we had the delay in being able to print our own season tickets because the league couldn't supply the club with its own sponsor's logo, then there was the farce in producing two complete sets of playing kit only to discover the shirts were unacceptable to the League because their sponsor's logo was printed on the right sleeve instead of the left. In the annals of officious pedantic bullshit that really takes some beating.
     
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  6. YTC

    YTC Human Man

    It's all fun and games, that's for sure.
     
    Pink Panther likes this.
  7. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    I notice all clubs have to have official league shirt numbers too, although at least these are bold and clear unlike the Football league's numbers for the past few seasons.
     
  8. RabbleLevi

    RabbleLevi Member

    I write this as I wear my ‘Clunis 100’ T-Shirt’. Last season Nyren was asked to play RWB, RW, LWB, LW and Striker in many different games. He was also asked to do a lot of running up and down when he played out wide yet led the line and scored a ton of goals to help us get promoted. Clunis is a more direct player than Cook, preferring to cut inside and shoot, whilst cook has an excellent delivery into the box. I fancy Clunis up front with Walters, and also as back up to Cook if he needs a rest. Cook does look like more of a complete player yet Clunis was most exciting last season when he played up front, remember Billericay Away.
     
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  9. Matt The Cab

    Matt The Cab Live it like you love it

    I may have missed it but does anybody know why we didn't see any width last night, and I'm not referring Cookies play or Nyren not being there. What has happened to the 2 - 3 yards which seem to have vanished from in front of the dugouts?

    Could be arsed to see if they were over the other side but I very much doubt it.
     
  10. Moroccan Sunset

    Moroccan Sunset Well-Known Member

    Mmm. The whole 100 goals thing doesn’t cut much ice with me, I’m afraid. 100 goals at one club at this level is an achievement, yes, but it has to be seen in the context of how many chances he gets per game. If he scores 1 goal for every 5 chances he gets then, then that’s not really amazing. It’s the same argument that Sterling found himself embroiled in over the summer: just because he scored more goals last season, doesn’t mean he became a better finisher – it just means he got more chances. I’m not saying that 1 goal for every 5 chances is his strike rate, but Nyren misses an awful lot of chances before one ends up in the back of the net. Some of his decision-making is poor, as well. Personally, I think he’s a right winger and if you stick him anywhere else, he over-complicates and becomes half the player he is when he he’s running up and down the wing. Trouble is, we’ve been playing without out-and-out wingers since we moved to a back five and that’s lead to him getting shoehorned into other positions.

    I think the trouble with putting Figueira and Clunis up front together is that they are two similar kind of players: both look to spin in behind. Although he had an absolute stinker last night, I get the logic in partnering Tomlin with Figueira, insofar as he drops off the defenders and tries to receive the ball with his back to goal. Tomlin primarily looks to link the midfield with the #9, but neither Clunis or WF would do that. I’d go with Dipo and WF myself.
     
    RabbleLevi likes this.
  11. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager

    I think we've had a number of players in his position over the last few years who've looked better than Nyren for periods, some of whom are probably more gifted tbf. He's still about though because he always gives it everything and keeps going. It's rare to get a genuinely bad performance from him. Plus as far as I can tell he never sulks if he's not picked. There'll definitely be a role for him I'm sure.
     
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  12. DonkeyAssessor

    DonkeyAssessor Well-Known Member

    The same referee who handled the play off final last season. Give him a season ticket.
    (unless of course the match official details hadn't been edited from the last game, in the match programme )
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
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  13. RabbleLevi

    RabbleLevi Member

    There were times last season Nyren left me frustrated due to missed chances/ weak shots. I still think he has plenty to offer and should be in the starting 11 either as a striker or on the LW. We are short of a Defender this season which suggests we will be playing with 4 at the back rather than 5 (we played 5 majority of last season) so I believe Clunis will start on the left. I just think Clunis has been part of the squad for so long and knows so much about the way Gavin wants his team to play that he is too valuable to have on the bench. Also Cooks delivery is exceptional and I can see him growing tired of our players are not converting his crosses.
     
  14. Jules P

    Jules P #noprestonnoparty

    It must be silly season. So we've already decided that last season's Manager's Player of The Year, Fan's Player Of The Year, Player's Player of the Year, Top goalscorer (or certainly close) and one of the most important factors in our historic promotion winning season isn't good enough/won't get in the side/misses too many chances? All this before he's kicked a single ball this season?!
     
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  15. Moroccan Sunset

    Moroccan Sunset Well-Known Member

    I don't think there's any 'we've' about it: it's pretty much just me.

    Popularity of an opinion that he is really good isn’t proof that I’m incorrect though. In fact, I know that at one time or another people working for the club have brought up similar issues about Nyren.

    Don’t get me wrong, I respect his loyalty – he’s turned down other clubs for more money – and as mentioned above, I think he’s a good right winger, but I just think that his cult status papers over very apparent flaws. I don’t think people want to see them either. I think we’ve got to the level of football where the quality of player we can attract is now so good, that Nyren will have to eradicate his deficiencies to stay in the side, or we risk dropping a better player just to keep him in. I know that’s essentially sacrilege on here and I’m not calling for Nyren’s head, but I think Figueira’s, Cook’s and Vose’s performances on Wednesday really highlighted the fact that the standard of football we play is now clearly higher than it was last season.
     
  16. pompeydunc

    pompeydunc Well-Known Member

    It's not that it's sacrilege, you are just very wrong on this. Yes, he misses chances, but so do many others. He has scored one in four games over his career, which has largely been played on the wing, wing back or sometimes even full back. This is an incredible return. He was exceptional last season and is a key reason for securing second place. As Jules says, he swept the awards. What more can you possibly want?! Top scorer from wing back, and a few starts up front...
     
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  17. Al Cunningham

    Al Cunningham Brockley Hamlet

    Have to say I thought Ming and Kargbo were brilliant on Wednesday. I would always play Clunis. On Saturday it would be up front with Figueira and keep Ming and Cook on the right. The management also got it spot on as insisting to keep passing and look for gaps. ET dropped into a 5-4-1 after their goal and said ...try and break us down. We did with great skill and patience. It would have been a top performance even without the winner .....but so good when it came .
     
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  18. Moroccan Sunset

    Moroccan Sunset Well-Known Member

    No, I don’t think I am. I think he misses far more chances than anybody else in the side. The one in four argument holds no water as well, if he has (and again, this is hypothetical) 5 chances per game, but scores only 1. Really the true measure of how clinical someone is, is how many chances they miss in comparison to how many they score. I don’t have statistics, but he misses a lot of chances. The vast majority of his games are played in an attacking position – they dwarf the amount of matches he’s played at full back or wing back.

    The fact that he swept the awards, as mentioned, doesn’t mean I’m wrong either. Popularity of opinion doesn’t disapprove a counter-argument. I don’t mean this to sound as catty as it does, but for me Hayles, Kargbo, Preston and Green were far more influential last season.

    Before anyone weighs in with the ‘Oh, so you think you know better than Gavin?’ thing, no, I’m not suggesting that, but perception is such that some individuals will notice certain things over others, regardless of general understanding or subject knowledge. Like I say, other people at the club have highlighted the fact that he doesn’t convert enough of his chances in the past.

    Anyway, look at this - I’ve soured an otherwise chipper thread. I think Clunis is wasteful with chances and on the basis of that I wouldn’t pick him above Dipo, Figueira, Cook or Vose. Finito.
     
  19. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    Whilst I empathise with some of your comments on this topic, three of those four players haven't even scored a goal in a competitive match for the club never mind 100.
     
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  20. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

  21. SDE

    SDE Well-Known Member

    Love the Clunis.
     
  22. Moroccan Sunset

    Moroccan Sunset Well-Known Member

    Yeh, but in fairness, Figueira and Vose have only started one game each and Cook did score, it was just missed by the officials. Vose and Cook were comfortably the best players on the pitch on Wednesday night, as well.
     
  23. GregDHFC

    GregDHFC Well-Known Member

    But Figueira had quite a few chances and didn't get close to scoring. I'm not saying he's bad, but if that's your only metric, then it's not clear to me why Fig gets his place.
     
    pompeydunc likes this.
  24. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    So how can you be so confident that players who've only started one game each are worth a place ahead of someone in his tenth season at the club? How can you be so confident that any of these players are better finishers or more likely to score 20 goals for us this season than someone who actually did so last season?

    Vose, Cook and Figueira were all excellent on Wednesday. But there have been plenty of matches in the past when Clunis, Tomlin and Carew have collectively destroyed opponents.

    Assuming Nyren is available tomorrow I'd much rather we can afford to leave him out than have him walk back into the side because we've struggled without him, but I think it's pretty mean to portray him as some sort of faithful journeyman who needs to be phased out now we're in the big league.

    Nyren is essentially a right winger for me, and unfortunately his best role hasn't really existed within the manager's preferred system over the last couple of years, but he's still performed with skill, commitment and consistency in a variety of other roles. Various other players have occasionally surpassed Nyren in similar positions; the likes of McCallum, Taylor, Chambers, Carr, Oztumer, Pinnock and Allassani have all caught the eye of League clubs and been given a shot at a professional career (with varying degrees of success) while none of those clubs felt Nyren was worth a punt.

    However for his combination of footballing ability, commitment, consistency, loyalty to the club and its best ever manager, and exemplary conduct and demeanour whilst representing the club - never going down if he can help it, never staying down for treatment unless he's really hurt, never giving referees any trouble, never getting sent off or suspended - he's undoubtedly the club's greatest player of the 21st century so far in my view.

    He's played a big part in the club's journey from where it was at the start of the decade to where it is now. He may well not get back into the starting XI just yet, but I think it's somewhat premature to start proclaiming anyone who's only just joined the club as a superior option on the evidence of one or two matches.

    We saw last season how important it is to have a whole squad of players who can make telling contributions, with a reserve goalkeeper saving two penalty kicks in the shoot--out and a substitute converting the winning kick in the club's biggest match for decades, and I'm sure at some point Nyren will be starting regularly and performing well enough to keep someone else out of the side.
     
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  25. RabbleLevi

    RabbleLevi Member

    Clunis often creates a lot of his own chances and I don’t think anyone would argue that we didn’t miss him against Welling, a game in which we only had one shot on goal. Dipo has dry spells, Tomlin is looking more like a playmaker than a striker, Walters movement is excellent but should have scored on Wednesday (I’ll reserve doubts about finishing), Jay May has been honest and said he isn’t a goal scorer but more of a battering ram.

    Even if Clunis gets 10 goals and a few assists as a winger this season it will be a massive contribution.
     
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  26. Moroccan Sunset

    Moroccan Sunset Well-Known Member

    Yes, to an extent I’d agree with you: WF did miss some chances, but I thought he generally played very well and linked up nicely with Green and Vose. I thought he looked Sekajja-esque at times. I think it’s harsh to judge WF on chances missed in one game – the charges I’m levelling against Clunis are that he consistently misses chances, lacks a ruthless streak and over-complicates.

    I’d drop Tomlin for the same reasons. It’d be even harsher to drop WF on the basis of missed chances, when Tomlin was literally missing open goals.
     
  27. Moroccan Sunset

    Moroccan Sunset Well-Known Member

    Oh, I’m not dead certain that they will be better than Nyren. But that’s the same dilemma you get when any club signs a new player: you gamble, to a certain extent, that they are better than what you already. If you didn’t take that risk, you’d never get new players. I’m going solely on their performances on Wednesday when the three aforementioned new players produced excellent performances. It’s probably worth gesturing back to my original point here, which was that I hope Nyren doesn’t come back into the side at the expense of either Cook, Figueira, May or Vose, because all four played exceptionally well and on the basis of that deserve to keep their place in the starting XI/match squad. I’m not making any outlandish predictions that this quartet will, with Dipo, bang in 20 goals each and fire us to promotion, I just thought that they played well and that because Nyren misses so many goalscoring opportunities he shouldn’t go straight back into the starting line-up.


    Neither am I saying he should categorically 100% be phased out. I’m saying that I think he has to improve and become more clinical and decisive (especially in front of goal, when he’s caught dithering on the ball or running down blind alleys as he is wont to do) if he is stay in this side. I think that’s an argument you could level at several of our other players – now that we’ve gone up, their performances have to increase as well. Indeed, that’s the same for any player that goes up a division. The only other thing that I was pointing was a combination of these points – that the performances of Vose, Cook, and from what I’ve seen of WF indicate that we’re attracting a noticeably higher calibre of player now and that I don’t think it’s fair to automatically assume that Nyren should be in starting XI each game. Clunis has his deficiencies, whether you (collectively) want to recognise them or not, and I think we’re at a level now where those deficiencies will become more problematic. If he comes in, takes his scoring chances and turns in generally good performances, then great, no one will be happier than me. I haven’t got a vendetta against Nyren, I’d much rather see him step up and develop than booted out.
     
  28. StephenMac

    StephenMac Well-Known Member

    This is all rather healthy, a rare debate about actual football and footballers on here. Nobody's called anyone else a cunt yet either. My uninteresting take is that we don't really have too much of an idea of which personnel will make up our best XI yet, nor the optimal way to set them up to play.
     
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  29. Moroccan Sunset

    Moroccan Sunset Well-Known Member

    Oh shut up, Stephen, you diplomatic cunt.
     
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  30. StephenMac

    StephenMac Well-Known Member

    Fuck you, you Nyren-murdering fuck.
     

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