Dulwich Hamlet v Bath City, Saturday 5th January 2019

Discussion in 'Dulwich Hamlet FC' started by Matt The Cab, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    jnrknight likes this.
  2. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

  3. Jules P

    Jules P #noprestonnoparty

  4. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    GeriatricMascot ia particularly partial to a sing song.[/QUOTE]

    Jules P likes this.
  5. pitchfork

    pitchfork Well-Known Member

    Maybe Gav needs to remember he too has a contract. Sometimes you have to look at bit closer to home.
  6. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    If you look back at who was playing in our best performances against good to average sides earlier in the season a core of Okuonghae-Kargbo-Vose is the common denominator: Chelmsford, Wealdstone, Woking, Chippenham, Billericay, St Albans; all three started all those games. The last time all three started was Torquay, when we certainly didn't get beaten through lack of effort or determination. When we lost limply at Hemel the following weekend only Vose started, and that was when he picked up his injury. The rot set in a few weeks earlier when Kargbo limped off at 3-1 up against Weston-super-Mare.

    Toure has done well as a newcomer picked up from a lower level, but he needs those more senior players to help him, he can't be one of those players himself. Taylor is another example of what I mean about not enough leaders. He's a good athlete and a technically accomplished ball player, but he's not someone who seems to lift the team and hold it all together when we're wobbling. He's had an almost identical career path to Michael Chambers, emerging from our Academy, departing for several seasons as a full-time pro, returning in his early-mid 20's, but I don't feel he plays with anything like the same confidence and authority. He was all at sea in the Wingate Trophy game, one of the poorest performers in the poorest team performance of the season.

    Chambers has been our best and most consistent performer this season IMO, and looked a worthy choice as captain on Boxing Day. Since then he seems to have suffered a sequence of slip ups, getting caught in possession for the Slough goal in an otherwise flawless personal performance, then conceding the free kick and misdirecting his header for Bath's two goals.

    I fully agree that there seems to be a tendency to get into a cycle of rolling the dice until something new works, and that's precisely why I'm looking back at what was happening in the autumn when we seemed to be settling nicely at this level. If Okuonghae and Vose are fit I'd pick them, then look at who to pick alongside them. A number of the better performances featured a narrow 4-4-2 formation with Kargbo sitting in front of the defence with Carew, Vose and Ferguson ahead of him. I've no idea how much longer he's expected to be out, but the closest alternative Onovwigun limped off at Eastbourne with what looked like a painful groin strain so if necessary a strong ball winner to fill the number 4 shirt would be the priority in terms of bringing in someone new.

    I think Thompson, Akinyemi and Clunis are capable enough up front if they get the service. I know shortage of goals is a problem but that won't be resolved by bringing in another similar striker, it will take someone a fair bit better than what we already have. I won't write off Erskine after such a long absence, but he probably shouldn't be starting yet and getting flagged offside five times before half time on Saturday was just unacceptable.

    We've now entered that period of the season when players start moving at Football League level and the shakedown could lead to someone useful landing at our doorstep .
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  7. Poids

    Poids Active Member

    I'd agree with that. Even if Kargbo is back soon it would be nice to have the option to play two more defensively minded midfielders when we're playing against the top sides in the division (assuming Onuvwigun will be used primarily as a centre back for the time being). Tbh, I don't feel like we adequately replaced Beaney. The amount of ground he covered was ridiculous. Some might question how he'd have faired against some of the better teams in this division but I think he would have been very useful in the scrappy games we need to win against the teams around us.
  8. Moroccan Sunset

    Moroccan Sunset Well-Known Member

    That is a good point about Magnus actually. He has made numerous gaffs, but our best performances this season have come with him in the side. I'd add Ming to that trio of Magnus-Kargbo-Vose: some of his performances earlier this season were outstanding, Woking in particular.

    I'd hope we'd stick with a back five. I think a back four completely nullifies Nathan Green, and frankly he's one of our best attacking outlets.

    I'd go with the 532 we had last season: that'd allow Vose, Kargbo and Ferguson to all play in the same midfield and give Thompson and Dipo the chance to form a partnership up front. I'd swap Cook for Ming, too.
  9. scousedom

    scousedom Well-Known Member


    In fact, all of it.

    Except for the bit about leaving Nyren out, of course!
    Moroccan Sunset likes this.
  10. Moroccan Sunset

    Moroccan Sunset Well-Known Member

    Putting my opinions of Nyren to one side, I think what I see as our best formation doesn't really suit, not just Nyren, but any of our wide players. I think to try and wedge Banton, Cook or Clunis into a side playing that formation would be to put a square peg in a round hole, something that we've tried to do numerous times over the last 9 years without success. Indeed, I think pompeydunc raises a similar point when he says that playing Carew so deep is futile and not suited to his skillset.

    I think it's time for the most logical team, not the best 11 players.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
    Pink Panther likes this.
  11. Poids

    Poids Active Member

    I agree with a lot of what you say, but I also don't think we can afford to be without Nyren who is, like it or not, one of the few players we have who scores on a regular basis, particularly as a midfield three of Vose, Kargbo and Ferguson whilst being quite well balanced, looks a bit light on the goals front for me.
    jnrknight and pompeydunc like this.
  12. scousedom

    scousedom Well-Known Member

    So this might be semantics but I don’t quite agree on the need for Kargbo IF what we’re playing is a 5-3-2. If that’s a proper 5, all defensively minded, then an old school DM is a bit of a defensive luxury as it leaves only four attackers. Won’t win many that way. If though what we are is a 3-4-2-1 / 3-4-1-2 as we were last year, where Sanchez and Green are proper attacking wing backs, then yes the central two has to have a DM in it. Called Kargbo.

    Perhaps our problem this year is that we too often find ourselves caught between those two stools. We haven’t been good at switching between those mindsets. The wide defenders go on the attack without the centre mids compensating and tucking back, leaving us exposed.

    But whatever, I personally think Nyren brings a lot to either the 1-2 or 2-1 upfront (as part of the 2 element in each case).
    pompeydunc likes this.
  13. RabbleLevi

    RabbleLevi Well-Known Member

    I agree with Moroccan on Clunis. Thompson has scored 1 goal in 3 games and I would like to see him have a run in the side. Dipo has scored the same amount of league goals as Clunis (6) but has only had 10 starts and considerably less time on the pitch. I wouldn’t want to see Clunis dropped to Wing Back where Sanchez is most accomplished. That leaves a spot behind the two fowards but then Nyren would have to play in an unfamiliar position (CAM).

    You can’t bring strikers to the club, especially when we are crying out for goals, and not give them a reasonable chance in the first team (Reasonable being 7/8 games).

    At the moment I see Clunis a very good striker option rather than our best winger in a system that does not play to his strengths.
  14. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    If we play 3-5-2 Ming & Green are the best wing-backs for me. Nyren can do a job as a striker but Thompson would be my first choice number 9, then it becomes a toss up whether Nyren or Dipo is his partner. Ideally Nyren would be the right winger in a 4-4-2 or play on the right of a front three. I know it's partly down to the difficult circumstances last summer but we've ended up with a group of players in which a few too many are not compatible with each other (too similar) or not compatible with whichever formation we're using in any given match. Vose looks better playing just behind the strikers but doesn't score goals; Carew would score goals from that position but has been playing deeper. Ferguson often flatters to deceive for me; his ability to receive a pass, turn and accelerate in one fluid movement is breathtakingly, but he's another of those young-ish players who doesn't quite seem to have kicked on and developed an ability to take a game by the scruff of the neck.
    pompeydunc likes this.
  15. pompeydunc

    pompeydunc Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't say we are playing a back five at the moment, and haven't done so for a while. Green and Cook/A.N.Other have been playing alongside the midfield two, or further forward, so it has been a 3-4-3....with a plan to get it forward quickly to the front three and the middle pair to largely sit and hold the midfield. The wide players offer little protection down the flanks, as they are either tucking inside or too far forward. Hence, we have conceded a lot of goals from crosses. If we were playing a back-five, then I doubt we would have conceded so many goals that are coming from wide positions. The current system is clearly not working, as it's not what these players are used to doing, and too many players are in holes that don't maximise their strength. It's hardly a surprise that players are failing to deliver on instructions frankly, as it's all rather muddled.
    Pink Panther and Poids like this.
  16. Poids

    Poids Active Member

    I do take your point, but personally, I just don't think in a team that is desperately crying out for goals we can afford to sacrifice one of the very few players who has actually contributed a decent amount this season, even if it means playing him out of his preferred position.

    If he's not playing who can we rely on to score with any regularity? Dipo and perhaps Thompson (I'm not sure he was brought in for his goals) but I don't see a lot of others in the team who'd take up the slack. I think the midfield would need to start contributing a lot more goals than they have so far before we could think about dropping Nyren. Just my opinion of course!
    pompeydunc and Pink Panther like this.
  17. scousedom

    scousedom Well-Known Member

    So I have no factual basis for saying this, it’s just my observation (and poorly positioned observation at that given I stand behind the goal rather than watching side on) - but hey, that makes it a perfect internet post. But I bet if you compared wing back heat maps this season versus last they’d show we’re operating further back. So we might not be intending to play a back five but more often than not we are. Which wouldn’t at all be uncommon in a promoted side. But I don’t (always) agree we aren’t playing a back five, even if it’s not our intention.

    If this is the case then the front five not having a recognised DM makes more sense - though I wouldn’t really expect a narrow attacking five with little mobility upfront to score much. I think our problems come from the rarer (than last season) occasions when both wing backs step up to try and help out and the midfield doesn’t compensate by being ready to cover back. Last season it wasn’t a problem so much as opposition teams were generally more passive, playing closer to their own goal, and less numerically committed to the break when they won it back. That’s not the case this year.

    Maybe Ferguson is learning how to be someone who can flip between a 4 and an 8 as the instant demands, and we should give him more time. But for the moment Kargbo can’t come back soon enough as at least he can do the 4 role properly.
  18. Poids

    Poids Active Member

    Personally, I think we should always be playing with a specialist 4. We've tried doing without before and I don't think it ever really works for us. You can see that Carew, Ferguson etc are doing their best to cover the defensive duties of midfield, but I think you need someone there who is instinctively on the look out for danger and positioning themselves accordingly.

    I think one of the reasons we did so well in the last two seasons was that we often played with Kargbo and Beaney together in a three. Kargbo could then act as a screen for the players behind him, whilst Beaney got in the opposition's face, breaking up attacks. It was the first time in recent years that we had the personnel to do that and it solved what had previously been a big issue for us, opposition teams attacking from deep, meeting virtually no resistance in midfield, and then advancing at speed on a totally exposed back line. We conceded so many goals that way.
  19. Cyclodunc

    Cyclodunc Where's the slam tent, mate?

    Spot on Poids. Beaney also willing to go for a curry with a fan. #legend
    WillClunas and Poids like this.

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