Discussion in 'Dulwich Hamlet FC' started by Fingers, Aug 26, 2015.
Via the EDT ? What's the local pub got to do with it ?
Basically, the ground could be better developed and utilized, and as we all expected having fuck all social housing won't be tolerated.
EDT, EDC, EDF it's all so confusing!
Sorry, I meant East Dulwich Forum (EDF).
The new stadium isn't going to be approved is it!
If the developers actually gave something back to the borough, like social housing, it would have a much better chance...!
That seemed like an afterthought in the objections.
Politically, the council would have much more leverage were decent social housing involved. May not be a golden ticket, but it's certainly gonna do more good than bad.
I mean, point 8.17 isn't wrong - I really think the current ground could be made to work with a bit of investment (especially when you see what other grounds around the league have to work with).
The problem is, unless we find a rich benevolent philanthropist to help out, it is hard to imagine who would put the money into doing that. The current lot certainly won't.
On the one hand, if I'm honest, I think they're right really.
On the other hand - HAHAHAHAHAHAAA at the idea of Southwark Counil giving a toss about social housing, the lying bunch of cunts.
Just out of interest, how much would you see as 'a bit of investment'....and who do you think would or could invest?
I was never convinced that the extra vague plans for the new stadium offered anything better than what we have now.
Realistically the club I think would need half a million for some re-development where it to come to it. Covered stands behind the goal, total remodel of the bar, reconfiguration of the rest of the club house etc.
I've got a 5iver if anyone else fancies chipping in.
I think it depends on what you mean by 'need' tbh. Setting aside the ownership and looking only at the ground, clearly the council aren't wrong that as far as grounds at our current level go Champion Hill is as good as most. It maybe needs a bit of patching up but it doesn't need some massive overhaul in that sense. If you're looking at the crowd growth and the potential for that to continue, and for the club to push up the leagues then I think it probably does.
What's that half a million figure based on, out of interest?
based on me putting my hand up into the sky, and gracefully pinching some air and thrusting it downwards towards this forum.
I reckon we could easily manage to crowdfund some really really basic covering at one or two ends. Loads of other clubs manage to offer this basic facility for their fans, and some of the constructions I've seen at other grounds have been very DIY looking (and presumably relatively cheapo to build) - but who cares what it looks like so long as it's safe, keeps you dry and helps increase crowd noise?
Stadium solutions make a lot of stands/grounds at lower levels. Everything from small 3 step covered stands to full grounds (sloughs new ground being one).
No idea on the cost though. Sure they could come up with bespoke covering for our goal ends.
Products / Covered Standing Terraces | Stadium Solutions
They're twitter has some good snaps of the construction of the new Salford city ground, if you're into that sort of thing
These guys do seem to be the best lot around for our level. Seen some nice stuff from them!
Looks like they did the stand we were in first half at Havant too, nice!
Is there a realistic scenario whereby we the fans could buy out the various goons who own champion hill? I'm thinking Ivy House style. We might need some serious philanthropy into the mix and some social investment. Plus Southwark's support. But a proper crowdfunding effort, with a realistic target in mind could raise a lot. I'd put a 1000 in without caring too much if I saw it again. And I reckon quite a few of the fans could manage this.
The problem would be valuation. We would put a value on it along the lines of what other football clubs at our level are worth, or if we were being more businesslike what a company making a modest profit (couple of hundred grand a year if run stonkingly well?) would be worth. Either way, not more than a couple of £million...?
They though will value it on the basis of the land value of a massive residential scheme. The profit they will make on that they would expect to be many times any valuation we'd put on it... 500 flats is it? 15% profit target on the scheme. Say the flats average £500k, makes £65k, times 500 makes £32.5million. That's what they'd say they'd be giving up by selling. They'd logically accept less for certainty. But they'd still want many times what it's worth as s football club.
Next question. If Meadows don't get their way, i.e. stadium move to the plastic pitch and build flats on the stadium, how safe is the clubs existence to stay where it is, is there any protection presuming they own the lease?
Agree with the bit about crowd growth... but it seems that that issue wouldn't be solved by the new stadium anyway, as it's not planned to be significantly bigger than the existing ground.
I still don't understand why the current facility isn't sustainable, and I don't think that's ever been properly explained - evidentally the council aren't convinced by that either, otherwise they wouldn't have made the point they make in 8.17.
Well there's a covenant on the ground, to say that it can only be used for sporting purposes iirc. There's nothing to protect the club specifically - they could just shut it down if they wanted. I think they'd view that as at best a very long term risky strategy though. Yes you can leave the ground for years in the hope that once it's a crumbling wreck the council decides there's no point resisting a development. They won't want their funds wrapped up for that long though, and there's no way of knowing how long it would take.
If i had to guess the next step would be to sell it on at a moderate loss and someone else would have a go. That's total speculation though.
, as a minimum
On what basis do you think it is sustainable. It is a badly designed and configured building with poor access. Frankly, if I was going back to basics then I would build a new club building housing bar, boardroom and dressing rooms next to the main stand and then franchise the rest of the building to a health club.
The business rates bill is pretty high as well.
However, assuming that wouldn't happen then my thoughts are that the gym needs investment in equipment and marketing plus its own dedicated entrance. The serving area in the bar is badly configured and new entrances to the bar need to be created plus there is no space for separate hospitality facilities, the squash courts need to be changed to another use. In fact, the upstairs could be reconfigured as business office space or classroom space in partnership with a college, and the squash courts turned to soft play. The downstairs boxing gym could be turned to community changing facilities to serve the new all weather pitch that would be essential to even begin to turn it to profit.
All this would come with a very hefty bill that will initially add to the losses.
All that is without spectator facilities being upgraded and all the seats in the stand being replaced as a minimum.
On top of that, the floodlights are at the end of their useful life.
So, just that little lot will costs a large 6 figure sum at best and then the club would need some proper full time staff tasked with filling on this space with commercial operators paying a market rent or running the whole thing.
Without it, then the club will at best stand still and realistically start going backwards as income will never match expenditure.
Just my personal opinion of course
I'd turn the squash courts into a new bar. open it up and move the burger bar/shed.
The club could never be sustainable without a long lease.
Yes, agreed. Add that to the list of many things necessary
For those that haven't already seen it, there is a new Southwark Plan out for consultation at present. Included within the proposed site allocations is Champion Hill however, Southwark Council have failed to make any serious provision for the Football Club. The Supporters' Trust have sent in a response but it would be of help if other supporters can also send comments into Southwark Council to make our feelings known (again). Advice on how to make comments and what you may wish to include within your comments can be found here.
More details here: New Southwark Plan – Area Visions and Site Allocations: WE NEED YOUR HELP! – Dulwich Hamlet Supporters' Trust
Any questions either respond here or email the Trust: firstname.lastname@example.org
So are the 'Hadley' plans dead in the water now, are we back to square one? Sorry confused.
Separate names with a comma.