Discussion in 'Dulwich Hamlet FC' started by PartisanDulwich, Jun 24, 2015.
yes fully accept the criticism Mishi
don't knowingly make mistakes
More of an observation than criticisms...you know me...I like a moan!
DULWICH HAMLET ATTENDANCES AND IMPACT OF TELEVISION
In the 1930's, crowds averaged around 7,000 to 8,000 at Champion Hill, now they average less than half of that.
Tom Brooker attributes the decline in attendance and this season's fickleness in particular to the impact of television
(according to the report Tom Brooker an amateur international and for over 22 years after his playing career a member of Dulwich Hamlet selection committee)
Source: Sport Express 27th April 1956
Now that's research pompeydunc ! ;-)
Think its really good to get a reference for average crowds
I was struggling to get a feel for how big the crowds were in the glory years
and after the war
Its interesting they put the lower attendance down to television ( I had always believed mayor decline had been after the war people stop going to non league - so blame being put at the feet of television
Think they are also referring to general impact of Television, rather than just sport on TV
Also worth noting that in the 1950's still getting 3-4,000
Dulwich Hamlet will not be televised
This picture was posted on twitter
The Cardinal Tales @cardinal_tales
John and Charlie Mortimore of @wokingfc at Kingfield vs @DulwichHamletFC 1955
But we WERE televised. Some of the earliest 'modern' tests of live football on the BBC in the late 40s were done a amateur games...including one or two involving Dulwich Hamlet.
Dulwich Hamlet were televised from the very start of football on television.
Dulwich Hamlet V Nigeria September 17th 1949
This game played in front of a crowd of 18,000 became famous as the Nigerian players played in bare-feet
According to Colonial Film commentary (link below)
"The high spot of their tour"
"Everywhere, now the fine reputation of these lads from Nigeria has been firmly established by their gentlemanly behaviour, on the field and by their clean and clever play. They have
stirred the admiration of all sportsmen. They have created closer appreciation and understanding of West Africa and Nigeria, that has made a deep appreciation on the
thousands who have watched them. Interest in this match was intense, all knew it to be a real test of strength and skill of two teams of true sportsmen - Soccer at its finest"
As Dulwich Historian Jack McInroy points out in his excellent article on the Nigerian tour of 1946
"Two versions of the matchday programme were produced for the day. The normal single sheet folded, and a souvenir one for players and officials with the clubs’ colours of pink and blue and green and white ribbons attached."
see Dulwich Historian for more information
and this Colonial Video (from 3:12) excellent film of Champion Hill
A crowd of 13,000 watched Dulwich Hamlet V West Auckland Town (FA Amateur Cup Replay)
The best attendance of the season 1955-1956
Winning 3-0 (according to the markings on the programme)
The Semi final against Corinthian Casuals at Stamford Bridge was played in front of a crowd of 27,000
Dulwich Hamlet were just 90 minutes from Wembley but lost 3-1
Capacity at Champion Hill at this period was 40,000 (including 20,000 covered)
Source: Sport Express 27 May 1956
Slightly more prosaic: Cup-winning manager Jimmy Seed attributed the 50s decline in crowds at The Valley to the tram network being abandoned - until 1952, you could get to Charlton easily from all over South London.
Since Dog Kennel Hill was a big tram route too (the current 185 bus follows the old tram service) I wonder if the same applied at Dulwich.
Trams and Football
Flags flying at Champion Hill for the Dulwich Hamlet V Nigeria game in September 1949 (a still taken from the film of the game)
The bottom flag is Nigeria
The top flag looks like DHFC crest (also visible in the film are small icons in each corner of the flag ? (maybe x4 Amateur cups ?
The bars on the flag surely were
Blue Pink Blue
Peter Hurn @PetesPicPalace Jul 3
Pete's Picture Palace site updated today, 6950 press photos on sale, like this... Walthamstow Ave v Dulwich Hamlet
Vince Taylor @Groundtastic Jun 17
Main stand at Dulwich Hamlet's Champion Hill in 1980. Pic Bob Lilliman.
First Amateur International played at Champion Hill
England V Scotland
25 March 1933
England won 1-0
Champion hill opened 1931
Source: England V New Zealand Programme (Champion Hill) April 1964
The Isthmian League
The Isthmian League was founded in 1905 and for two seasons consisted of six clubs. London Caledonians, Clapton, Casuals (1939 became Corinitian Casuals), Civil Services, Ealing and Ilford
Then came the "split" and Casuals, Civil Service and Ealing joined the newly formed (1907 Amateur Football Association (A.F.A.) Their places taken by Oxford City, West Norwood and Dulwich Hamlet
Source Programme Isthmian League V Caribbean XI 10 sept 1959
I assume that game was played at a neutral venue. Avenue's old Green Pond Road ground was an iconic Isthmian League ground with an imposing main stand, but that's not it:
England Amateur Internationals played at Champion Hill
Champion Hill was opened in 1931 and before the World War II hosted a number of Internationals
The England V Scotland game was staged on four occasions, 1933, 1935,1937 and 1939. After the War the following games were played 1947 England V Wales, 1948 England V Holland also Holland V Luxembourg, 1950 England V France, 1958 England V Finland, 1960 England V Germany, 1961 England V France and 1962 England versus Ireland, 1964 England V New Zealand
Source England V New Zealand Programme 16 April 1964
DULWICH HAMLET CREST AND COLOURS
Among recent correspondence is a most interesting letter from a supporter who is anxious to know what our crest represents. We have given particulars of this before , but for our correspondence may be still newer supporters benefit, we produce the extract from an old program
From time to time we are asked for a detailed description of the club badge as worn on the jersey and appears on the front page of the program, when the club was founded by the late Lorraine ("Pa") Wilson in 1893 he had two of his earliest helpers on and off the field to brother's named Lloyd - one was so Westminster and the other at Dulwich College.
PINK & BLUE
When the question of colours arose, it was decided to have the pink of Westminister and the blue of Dulwich. Many, many years later discussion took place over the suggested badge and it was eventually decided to incorporate the association to which the club is in membership in addition to embodying other interesting features. The complete badge is thus
Top - City of London; top left-hand corner - Surrey County; top right hand - Dulwich: the bottom left - Borough of Camberwell; bottom right - City of Westminster. The middle line across is the coat of arms of the Champion De Crespigny family, to whom the present ground originally the belong and who were our landlords for many years before we eventually purchased the freehold.
Champion Hill at the time was the only entrance to the ground
Source Dulwich Hamlet V Kingstonian programme 13 December 1947
A corking find in the British Movietone archive, which is now on YouTube - the opening of the new pavilion (presume they mean the stand?) at Champion Hill. It doesn't give a date.
I was waiting for Mr. Chumley-Warner to make an appearance.
The video that follows shows how little has changed between then and now on local dignitaries that visit dhfc.
That would be 10th October 1931...the opening game at the previous Champion Hill, at home to local rivals Nunhead, in an Isthmian League match. I can't recall the exact attendance, off the top of my head, but it was sixteen thousand something..plus 'season ticket holders and guests', which I am guessing may have added another couple of thousand to the gate.
It was indeed the official opening of the old ground, not just the 'pavilion', which would have been an out-dated term, even back then.
England V France Amateur Internationals at Champion Hill
1956 won 3-1
1961 won 2-0
First international 1st November 1906 played in Paris England won 15-0
Mishi when you get a chance can you post the 1931 opening of Champion Hill attendance
Attendance was 16254
Sir Frederick Wall the "bowler-hatted, pin-striped, umbrella-wielding" Secretary of the FA from 1895-1934
Died Sutton 1944
Keep it light
On twitter for sale 08/09/2015
Surrey County F.A., 1911/12 cup final medal.
Paul Nicholas5 tweeted this newspaper cutting for fixtures for 27th December 1915
Dulwich Hamlet v 3rd Scots Guards
The 3rd Scots Guards were a reserve battalion - That is they trained the 1st and 2nd Scots Guards for the front
And by the miracle of the internet a search uncovers a picture of the 3rd Scots Guards on New Years Day "Hogmanay" 1916 at Wellington Barracks London, So some of these will have watched or possibly played Dulwich Hamlet days earlier
Crystal Palace had played the 3rd on the 18th December drawing 0-0
Separate names with a comma.