Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Dulwich Hamlet FC 2013-2014 season - chat, rumours, reports

ska invita

back on the other side
From the thread here http://forums.footballwebpages.co.uk/forum.jsp?id=264&article=2357
this post is worth repeating i think, in case anyone missed it:
"I've held my tongue for months but enough is enough.

Can we get one thing ABSOLUTELY clear: There is no way we'll be building a new ground on Greendales. This is a pipe dream pedalled by developers to attempt to win fans over about the loss of the current ground and many are falling for it.

Once we lose the principle of staying exactly where we are, our whole position has been weakened. Everyone wants to negotiate but when push comes to shove, the new owners have no desire to do anything other than build houses on their newly acquired land and make the transition from club-to-houses as smooth as possible for everyone...especially themselves.

By promising an alternative ground, they can go about their plans to build houses, starting almost certainly, with the car park as that's a quick win everyone can support. We as fans will then be merrily invited to attend consultations with models, drawings and CGIs of 3G pitches, covered stands, bars etc . Those with influence (vocal fans, DHST, the 12th man etc) will be made to feel all gooey and loved by having special meetings with the landowners to talk about how the plans are going.

But then when Southwark reject planning for the sites, the landowner is absolved from responsibility, the battleground moves on and then becomes the fans vs the council. The developer then claims "we're so advanced with our plans, we can't actually back-track from the buildingwork on the ground but as Southwark have scuppered the plans we'll help find you an alternative ground instead". They will then gradually step back.

This is not the views of a cynic, this is the view of someone who works as for a developer and for my sins, I'm paid to do this elsewhere in London so have a pretty good idea how this will turn out over the next few months.

Unless you fancy travelling to Penge to watch the games, I'd hold strong. We play our games at Champion Hill, we have to find a way to keep doing that."

Some valid points there, but i think your views would carry more weight if you had the bollocks to log in and put a name to your post.

It is possible than an alternative site may have to be found, but who thought that Streatham Redskins would return to Streatham, after a temporary rink was built in Brixton? If Greendales is allowed to be built on then that IS our best option. To be honest, years ago I would have been against any new ground in Penge, I assume you mean the derelict Orchards playing fields in Anerley, or are there other potential sites in Penge. But now i'd go with that if it meant a protected ,supporter-led club. After all, it's done Wealdstone no harm, to be relocated away from their Harrow heartland in Wealdstone.

You fibnish by stating: "Unless you fancy travelling to Penge to watch the games, I'd hold strong. We play our games at Champion Hill, we have to find a way to keep doing that."

Well come on, you got any suggestions on that? You sound as if you are someone 'in the know' after all? Perhaps 'contacts at the Town Hall'...Maybe even with Council experience yourself, who knows?

The Club is fucked as it is...why not work with the new owners of the ground and see how it goes? If we are shafted we'll certainly be no worse than we are...and right at THIS VERY MINUTE things can't get any worse. Anyway my lunchbreak is almost over, I've 'gassed on' enough, if you get my drift..."

----

BTW, If the worst comes to worst and DH have to leave Champion Hill, I would suggest Peckham Town's ground would make the most sense as somewhere to move, and its in Dulwich. No idea what the legalities of that are, and lets hope it doesnt come to that.
http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/peckhamtownfootballclub/a/location-11493.html
 

Monkeygrinder's Organ

Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager

Tricky Skills

Well-Known Member
The Homebase campaign achieved an awful lot of publicity on pretty zero resources. And that was at a time pre-social media, and pretty much pre-internet as well. Plus the crowds were but a fraction of what they are now.

I have no answers - I still struggle to fully understand the exact situation that the club is in. But I am confident that the swelling Rabble will at least be able to match the campaign that was put up when the Homebase application was being discussed.
 

Pink Panther

Well-Known Member
BTW, If the worst comes to worst and DH have to leave Champion Hill, I would suggest Peckham Town's ground would make the most sense as somewhere to move, and its in Dulwich. No idea what the legalities of that are, and lets hope it doesnt come to that.
http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/peckhamtownfootballclub/a/location-11493.html
That ground is totally inadequate for the level of football we currently play at. It's just a railed-off pitch with dugouts, well short of even top division county league standard. You'd pretty much have to build a complete new ground. I assume it's still owned by Southwark Council, although I'm not sure what the possibilities might be if building could be funded as part of a redevelopment of our present ground. As you say, at least it's in Dulwich but public transport links are pretty limited with only West Dulwich station within convenient walking distance and only the P13 bus route passing the site.
 

ska invita

back on the other side
That ground is totally inadequate for the level of football we currently play at. It's just a railed-off pitch with dugouts, well short of even top division county league standard. You'd pretty much have to build a complete new ground. I assume it's still owned by Southwark Council, although I'm not sure what the possibilities might be if building could be funded as part of a redevelopment of our present ground. As you say, at least it's in Dulwich but public transport links are pretty limited with only West Dulwich station within convenient walking distance and only the P13 bus route passing the site.
it has a club house, some parking space, and certainly would need addition building of structures, but there is space to do so, if there was a will and money it seems feasible. there are in fact two pitches side by side there. There are also loads of playing fields across the road there (Pyners Close Playing Fields).
P4 to Brixton>Lewisham goes there too!

Im just putting it out there...
 
Last edited:

Crispy

The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Hah, we nearly had our wedding reception at that clubhouse :)

Not a chance in hell of the estate allowing DHFC to play there, IMO.
 

EDC

A Slightly Less Invisible Cyber Fan These Days
What's happening with the land where part of the East Dulwich Hospital was demolished, I went past on the train today and it's just a pile of rubble?
 

PartisanDulwich

Well-Known Member
Agreed no way Dulwich estates will allow any development - and certainly not Dulwich Village residents

With regard to the hospital site, that's already been ripped off to sell off by a Government keen to sell off NHS land to its friends and pay off PFI (private finance) debts

Regarding the nibbys (or very likely nibbys on Greendales) the thing is not to piss them off from the start

we need to come over as reasonable, accommodating but sticking to our guns ie we could say build on Greendales but include a children's nursery or flats for affordable housing for locals etc

Lets not get our fans ranting at them (nibbys or Council) from the off

Still believe our best bet is to stand and fight on the land we have (no matter how difficult that will be)

To quote a great Russian sniper at Stalingrad, Vasily Zaytsev,

"For us there is no land beyond the Volga"

We have the moral high ground and community asset, we should dig in and fight

Its like a pub that becomes a community asset (you cant move it, its the spirit)

The Council has the only "independent" professionals incl planners, engineers, legal etc.....who can effectively knock heads together

We have many people with contacts with the council, but have we a group of people "empowered" (as much as any can) to meet them and anyway what are we asking for (demanding) always useful to know our aims/objectives
 
Last edited:

sankara

Well-Known Member
It seems that there will be a good showing at East Thurrock tonight. The minibus has just one space left and I know a few of us are getting the train. I'll be at Fenchurch Street at about 5:30 to try and make it for the 5:41 if anyone wants to travel down together.
 

Pink Panther

Well-Known Member
Still believe our best bet is to stand and fight on the land we have (no matter how difficult that will be)

We have the moral high ground and community asset, we should dig in and fight

Its like a pub that becomes a community asset (you cant move it, its the spirit)


The Council has the only "independent" professionals incl planners, engineers, legal etc.....who can effectively knock heads together

We have many people with contacts with the council, but have we a group of people "empowered" (as much as any can) to meet them and anyway what are we asking for (demanding) always useful to know our aims/objectives
Perfectly summed up. Our current ground is great for us - we don't actually need a new one, and moving elsewhere (even just next door to Greendales) we'd be lucky to end up with anything as good as what we already have. The location is perfect, our crowds are growing steadily, the matchday atmosphere is the best ever in my 36 years of following the club (and probably for a good few years further back than that) - moving would be disruptive and could bring an abrupt halt to the momentum we've built over the last three years or so.

It would be nice to think the new owners of the ground could come to see DHFC as an asset with whom they can work, possibly even improving the ground with better terracing and more cover, maybe investing in and running Hamlets Health Club themselves as a profitable business; although I realise I'm probably being naive and idealistic in thinking that.
 

PartisanDulwich

Well-Known Member
While obviously we don't have the scale or resources of Charlton AFC

We could learn a lot from their campaign in the 1990s to stay/get back to the Valley
 

vornstyle76

Vorn Chic Vorn Genre
Okay, I know some more stuff about the situation.

Hadley Property Group is buying the ground to build on it. They *claim* that they will be able to win planning permission for a replacement stadium on Greendale. As we all know, this would likely be one hell of a struggle with the council.

Things are further complicated by the dire financial situation at the club thanks to unpaid utilities bills (there's some serious questions about where the hell the money's been going, but that's almost academic now). The gas has been switched off at Champion Hill and if it isn't switched on by Saturday the game can't go ahead and godknows what happens then. Apparently Hadley Property Group stumped up the cash for the last lot of players' wages and is interested in paying off the debts, and there's even been mention of Hadley guaranteeing the players' wages for the rest of the season. (Note of caution: this is petty cash to a property developer relative to what they stand to make, so let's not kneejerkingly assume it's a fantastic act of charity, not least as it'll buy hundreds of fans' support to swamp out the nimbys)

Hadley also want Nick McCormack out (as should we, the man's a disaster) before they deal with the club, with the club potentially being moved into Community Interest Company status. There's also been mention of a 99 year lease and tiny rent on the hypothetical new ground.

It all sounds rather positive doesn't it? But I cannot stress enough the risks involved. There's zero guarantee they'd get permission to build on Greendale - what happens then? There's zero guarantee they wouldn't some how weasle out of building the new ground anyway - we wouldn't be the first club to suffer such a fate. It's worth re-reading this post about how these things often pan in the property sector. And looking at some of the swanky developments on Hadley's website, I cannot see how a noisy non-league club can possibly fit in... Surely it'd knock a few thousand off the price of each flat?!

But by the sounds of it the club is fucked anyway... We are between a pink rock and a blue hard place.

The Asset of Community Value listing offers a six-month window in which to put up a counterbid (we don't have that money!). But it is a bargaining chip, as evidenced by the fact that Hadley want the Supporters Trust to withdraw it. Could they negotiate some sort of legally-binding written guarantee of Hadley's promises?
(EDIT: The ACV is also taken into account when planning permission is decided, therefore making development on the ground more difficult - another reason why the developer would want to get rid of it)
we need to come over as reasonable, accommodating but sticking to our guns ie we could say build on Greendales but include a children's nursery or flats for affordable housing for locals etc
I think literally affordable homes for actual local people would unite the developer, council and nimbys against us!

So, who's going to East Thurrock tonight? You never know, potentially our last ever game...
 
Last edited:

pettyboy

Well-Known Member
I think I can get to East Thurrock in time after work.

Has anyone looked into how they're getting back? Times and connections appreciated, thanks!
 

vornstyle76

Vorn Chic Vorn Genre
I think I can get to East Thurrock in time after work.

Has anyone looked into how they're getting back? Times and connections appreciated, thanks!
The 22:44 from Stanford-le-Hope gets to Fenchurch Street at 23:35. There's one half an hour before that but may not catch it.
 

editor

hiraethified
I can't make tonight - I've got rehearsals with my band dammit - but I'd appreciate some photos/match report to keep the Brixton Buzz masses informed (there's a real growing interest in the Hamlet on the site :) )
 

Scutta

Live Fast Die Bizarre
So, who's going to East Thurrock tonight? You never know, potentially our last ever game...
getting the train at 18.12 or 18.23 depending on what time I can get out of the office. meeting with sankara at enchurch St..... anyone who fancies it come join.


I think I can get to East Thurrock in time after work.

Has anyone looked into how they're getting back? Times and connections appreciated, thanks!
they are every half an hour 14 and 44 past up to 23.14 :)
 

vornstyle76

Vorn Chic Vorn Genre
cheers vornstyle.

so what next i wonder? i've joined the DHST in the hope of being able to do something useful that way, but perhaps we need a more militant wing. a PDHST, if you like.

we need information to keep coming so that we can formulate our response, and if necessary our plan of attack.
I believe there's likely to be an open DHST meeting with representatives from Hadley in the next two weeks. Aside from that, who knows. I think we all need to have a dig around, find out what's possible, precedents, legalities etc. For example, what have Hadley done in previous cases of buying up 'plots'/knocking shit down? Keep their promises?

Edit: Didn't mention it on my post just now as I didn't want to muddy the waters, but fuck me (a) the sheer waste involved with knocking down a ground just to rebuild it nextdoor, and (b) building luxury homes (or at least luxuriously priced) when there's homeless people, people spending over half their income on rent and 50,000 empty homes in London. What a mess. Welcome to the healthily functioning market, boys and girls.
 
Last edited:

pompeydunc

Well-Known Member
I think I can get to East Thurrock in time after work.

Has anyone looked into how they're getting back? Times and connections appreciated, thanks!
We can't get back to Basildon in time for last train at 22.06 (unless you get a taxi), so need to go back from Stanford-le-hope.

Looks like:

22:24 bus from ground (Corringham, only one an hour by this time)
22.32 arrive Stanford-no-hope
22.44 train from Stanford
23.31 arrive Limehouse, then DLR (which is running) to Shadwell
23.47 depart Shadwell on overground south....
Midnightish arrive Queens Road Peckham, Peckham Rye, Denmark Hill etc.

Dunc
 
Top