Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Dulwich Hamlet 1-3 Bognor Regis - 8th October 16 - Trade Union Day

Lucy Fur

Well-Known Member
That's kind of the opposite of what I said. I was just appalled that some guardian writer can write six myths that no one believes and then explain why they aren't true. Seems like money for old rope.

My views on unions are of course completely irrelevant. There is no justification fornus having a day dedicated to them anymore than having a fam club day. Other than some of our fans may be members of a fan club.

And let us tie it in with the anniversary of freddie mercury's death as well.

Everyone else just decided to debate my beliefs on unions instead. I would join a union when they care more about right or wrong and less about installing their own brand of politics in the world. A bit like member of the supporters trust board.
Putting the Unions to one side, how did you feel about the Stonewall day, the Assyria game, the raising money and stuff for Dunkirk, the food banks, the pro woman in football day? Im not gay, Syrian, living in Calais or Dunkirk, really really poor or in deed a woman. I was still happy to see the club doing these things and further more it's these kind of initiatives that binds the community spirit of the club together.
 

B.I.G

Well-Known Member
Putting the Unions to one side, how did you feel about the Stonewall day, the Assyria game, the raising money and stuff for Dunkirk, the food banks, the pro woman in football day? Im not gay, Syrian, living in Calais or Dunkirk, really really poor or in deed a woman. I was still happy to see the club doing these things and further more it's these kind of initiatives that binds the community spirit of the club together.
All of those things relate to football. I wasnt so bothered about the refugees one but some of our fans went to calais and it was a national scandal at the time before everyone started ignoring it again.

This time we have just pinned onto very specific politics. I dont like it. And im even more appalled no one questioned it when it was being discussed.
 

Lucy Fur

Well-Known Member
All of those things relate to football. I wasnt so bothered about the refugees one but some of our fans went to calais and it was a national scandal at the time before everyone started ignoring it again.

This time we have just pinned onto very specific politics. I dont like it. And im even more appalled no one questioned it when it was being discussed.
Fair do's, each to their own. If we were doing this kind of thing everytime I might share your concerns, but as a one off per season it just doesn't bother me. Replacing our existing stewards with some inexperienced stewards via some arch cronyism in order to 'satify an insurance requirement' does tho
 

editor

hiraethified
Everyone else just decided to debate my beliefs on unions instead. I would join a union when they care more about right or wrong and less about installing their own brand of politics in the world. A bit like member of the supporters trust board.
You seem to have a very entrenched Daily Mail-esque opinion on trade unions and, I'm afraid to say, it's a depressingly ignorant one. Trade Unions do a bloody fantastic job fighting to save important public services (you know, like the Fire Brigade and the NHS) and helping people at the bottom get a decent wage and working conditions.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
You seem to have a very entrenched Daily Mail-esque opinion on trade unions and, I'm afraid to say, it's a depressingly ignorant one. Trade Unions do a bloody fantastic job fighting to save important public services (you know, like the Fire Brigade and the NHS) and helping people at the bottom get a decent wage and working conditions.
i think that's what he's objecting to.
 

Scutta

Live Fast Die Bizarre
All of those things relate to football.
how anymore than this. They were done to get the community involved just like this and for specific political reasons that need to be addressed in football and wider society.
This time we have just pinned onto very specific politics. I dont like it. And im even more appalled no one questioned it when it was being discussed.
Tbf I think all the things Lucy Fur listed, were much more specific compared to the wide ranging work and sectors that the trade unions cover
A bit like member of the supporters trust board.
this feels more like a personal grievance with a specific person, which i don't know and cant understand why, than a well thought out argument or critique of trade unions, as none of your points stand up to any of the scrutiny
 

Scutta

Live Fast Die Bizarre
I like how everyone has taken the time to understand my point of view and not assumed the superiority of their own view :)
You mean looked at your view thought about it and provided various valid points, arguments and evidence that counter your point of view. Which then have just been met with a repetition of 4 answers with no real valid evidence to back them up other than your "opinion" or "feelings":
  • Unions just look out for themselves
  • The other stuff was different
  • personal attack on a trust board member
  • clapton
Glad to know where we all are then Phew. :thumbs:
 

editor

hiraethified
I like how everyone has taken the time to understand my point of view and not assumed the superiority of their own view :)
I've provided several well researched links, all of which you've dismissed out of hand because, well, you don't seem actually interested in learning anything to counter the daft, ill informed nonsense you've been posting up.
 

B.I.G

Well-Known Member
Oh stop your mewling, we've not assumed superiority, just come to realise it over the course of this discourse.
Just amused at everyone being entrenched in their position :) which is what happens when you try to convince the other side rather than trying to understand their point of view.
 

Scutta

Live Fast Die Bizarre
Just amused at everyone being entrenched in their position :) which is what happens when you try to convince the other side rather than trying to understand their point of view.
You mean looked at your view thought about it and provided various valid points, arguments and evidence that counter your point of view. Which then have just been met with a repetition of 4 answers with no real valid evidence to back them up other than your "opinion" or "feelings":
  • Unions just look out for themselves
  • The other stuff was different
  • personal attack on a trust board member
  • clapton
Glad to know where we all are then Phew. :thumbs:
but the problem is you havent given us anything to understand. Cant just agree cos that is how you "feel".

This piece on immigration seems quite appropriate to what is happening here:

The left is playing a dangerous game over immigration


"That may sound ridiculous. Yet there is a growing branch of liberal opinion which suggests British politicians, pundits and intellectuals should let people assert things which are not true.

....

Yet some on the liberal left, despite acknowledging this evidence, are moving to the view that telling people that they’re wrong when they complain of a negative economic impact of immigration is condescending.

To outline what the academic research shows on migration “comes across as either an accusation of stupidity or a symptom of elite arrogance”, as one newspaper commentator puts it."

it is not being elitist or superior to argue with evidence...
 

Lucy Fur

Well-Known Member
Just amused at everyone being entrenched in their position :) which is what happens when you try to convince the other side rather than trying to understand their point of view.
In the spirit of Union negotiations, I offer you the moral victory, we get a Union Day, you can have the last word, (provided said word is thankyou). Deal :p;)
 

B.I.G

Well-Known Member
but the problem is you havent given us anything to understand. Cant just agree cos that is how you "feel".

This piece on immigration seems quite appropriate to what is happening here:

The left is playing a dangerous game over immigration


"That may sound ridiculous. Yet there is a growing branch of liberal opinion which suggests British politicians, pundits and intellectuals should let people assert things which are not true.

....

Yet some on the liberal left, despite acknowledging this evidence, are moving to the view that telling people that they’re wrong when they complain of a negative economic impact of immigration is condescending.

To outline what the academic research shows on migration “comes across as either an accusation of stupidity or a symptom of elite arrogance”, as one newspaper commentator puts it."

it is not being elitist or superior to argue with evidence...
The myth that immigration is bad for an economy is a bit like the myth that unions are good for workers.

Collective wage bargaining for example does not require unions.

I am only getting frustrated because whatbai think about unions does not matter. It only matters if we should be having a trade union day. I do not think we should be. My personal opinion on unions is irrelevant.

Unions are supporter by many people on the left as is anti-fascism. No matter. It is my view that the club should not embrace these as they do not involve us.

I am pro-eu and do not think we should have an eu day either. Unions and cable street are neither local to us nor do we need to care about them. If people think we should than that is their opinion but they need to be honest and take their personal politics out of it and say if I did not feel that way would I still back it as an idea.

On the case my feeling is no and is whybI am so opposed to it.

My replying to questions about unions is because I have nothing to hide but it has nothing to do with the discussion. People just seem unwilling to understand workers rights through anything but a union. Its their prerogative.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
The myth that immigration is bad for an economy is a bit like the myth that unions are good for workers.

Collective wage bargaining for example does not require unions.

I am only getting frustrated because whatbai think about unions does not matter. It only matters if we should be having a trade union day. I do not think we should be. My personal opinion on unions is irrelevant.

Unions are supporter by many people on the left as is anti-fascism. No matter. It is my view that the club should not embrace these as they do not involve us.

I am pro-eu and do not think we should have an eu day either. Unions and cable street are neither local to us nor do we need to care about them. If people think we should than that is their opinion but they need to be honest and take their personal politics out of it and say if I did not feel that way would I still back it as an idea.

On the case my feeling is no and is whybI am so opposed to it.

My replying to questions about unions is because I have nothing to hide but it has nothing to do with the discussion. People just seem unwilling to understand workers rights through anything but a union. Its their prerogative.
You know fuck all about unions and wallow like a swine in your ignorance.
 

Scutta

Live Fast Die Bizarre
The myth that immigration is bad for an economy is a bit like the myth that unions are good for workers.
.
immigration wasnt the point it was a bout how you have discussions and how it is fine to use evidence not pander to a "feeling"
I am pro-eu and do not think we should have an eu day either. Unions and cable street are neither local to us nor do we need to care about them. If people think we should than that is their opinion but they need to be honest and take their personal politics out of it and say if I did not feel that way would I still back it as an idea.
this point as been countered with evidence each time and your only points against it are you dont like the person who suggested it and you dont want to look like clapton and the other examples you feel are different (when they are not and people have explained why)
My replying to questions about unions is because I have nothing to hide but it has nothing to do with the discussion. People just seem unwilling to understand workers rights through anything but a union. Its their prerogative.
it has everything to do with it if you think we shouldn't be associated it. And if you had good evidence based argument, then we could understand your point of view.
 

B.I.G

Well-Known Member
immigration wasnt the point it was a bout how you have discussions and how it is fine to use evidence not pander to a "feeling"

this point as been countered with evidence each time and your only points against it are you dont like the person who suggested it and you dont want to look like clapton and the other examples you feel are different (when they are not and people have explained why)

it has everything to do with it if you think we shouldn't be associated it. And if you had good evidence based argument, then we could understand your point of view.
I have nothing against Fingers
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
The reply of the ignorant but then you are a cunt who spends their time boosting a post count.
Yeh? You don't mention unions' role in representing workers at e.g. disciplinary hearings, or helping make workplaces safer, or helping curb bullying. All you mention is money. And it's you who're speaking from a position of ignorance, I'm a union rep so I do know something about the subject.
 

B.I.G

Well-Known Member
e2a ok fair enough i hope that is the case x
Fingers goes out of his way to fight nazis. He can't handle his booze. He thinks Jeremy Corbyn is going to do something useful politically. These are facts. I have nothing against Fingers

He probably is bit lonely. I honestly have nothing against Fingers

He does his best for the trust. He just needs to seperate his politics from that work.
 

Lucy Fur

Well-Known Member
Fingers goes out of his way to fight nazis. He can't handle his booze. He thinks Jeremy Corbyn is going to do something useful politically. These are facts. I have nothing against Fingers

He probably is bit lonely. I honestly have nothing against Fingers

He does his best for the trust. He just needs to seperate his politics from that work.
Defamation of character B.I.G you really should know better. Poor mate, really really poor.
You just lost that moral victory
 
Top