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dub/reggae fans - massive torrent

A response to chegrimandi from Steve Jah Warrior:

"That's always the same bullsh*t response from the pirates. At a quick glance I can see my own productions in there which are widely available from many legal DL stores as well as RMS, Vibronics which is the same, Deep Roots & Zion train ditto, Alpha & Omega, their entire catalogue is available on DL from RMS, Scotch Bonnet available both from the label & me & I'm pretty sure major DL stores too, Inner Sanctuary all available from RMS. So all this music is supposed to be hard to find & the only way people can find it is by illegal p2ping? Lying thieves."
 
ringo said:
A response to chegrimandi from Steve Jah Warrior:

"That's always the same bullsh*t response from the pirates. At a quick glance I can see my own productions in there which are widely available from many legal DL stores as well as RMS, Vibronics which is the same, Deep Roots & Zion train ditto, Alpha & Omega, their entire catalogue is available on DL from RMS, Scotch Bonnet available both from the label & me & I'm pretty sure major DL stores too, Inner Sanctuary all available from RMS. So all this music is supposed to be hard to find & the only way people can find it is by illegal p2ping? Lying thieves."
Click to expand...

ok - he sees it as theft. Fair enough. I can't really argue with that...

He's seen no increase in sales from legal downloading I presume? Which piracy has definitely speeded up bringing about on a large scale...

Is youtube/myspace music distribution also theft?
 
Ringo's got a fair point mind - many of the reggae independents need every penny they can get. Tough times for them, particularly in the UK - most UK artists I know keep afloat by touring Europe and beyond, where demand is steadier. Once notable MC/singer I know is working outside music for the first time in decades to make ends meet and and keep recording, as a traffic warden of all things. I'll spare his blushes.

The market for import 7" is collapsing too. It's a dark time and things like this don't help. For gawd's sake, if you do enjoy this mix, go out and buy some records and genuinely support too - many of the smaller, more interesting producers survive on comparatively very little.
 
Did I say that? But I don't very much to be fair - I'm a vinyl boy at heart.

These aren't folks on major labels who can afford to take a hit either. Not many mind when you download a sampler or two, but downloading 9.5 gig of music at a time is a different kettle of stinking piscine things. I mean, there's only so much music you've got time to listen to - it's not exactly likely to lead to a quick rush to buy more tunes in the same genre is it?
 
tarannau said:
Did I say that? But I don't very much to be fair
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I'll take that as a yes then.

:hmm:

what happens to your conscience then? Go on holiday a bit does it? Or are you an ethical only illegal downloader?

:D

At least I'm open about. I bet you download loads you little fibber.
 
I can guarantee I haven't downloaded over 9.5 gig of music illegally in over 5 years. Neither am I making any claims about ethics or hypocrisy.

Occasionally and for things I can't source usually, but that's a hefty chunk of tuneage that can compromise demand seriously. If you can, buy some - you're not fucking over some faceless corp here in the main. It's more like stealing off your local market trader than Tescos.
 
I used to trade CDR's of hard to find and out of print of 60's and 70's Jamaican singles, and used them as a buying guide, but these days a lot of the great music has been reissued and books been written so it's easy to explore the areas you're into in more depth.

I've never traded for music which can be bought from the producer or in shops like rms. Even when I've had promos from them I'd buy the vinyl of those 45's I really like because I only play out on vinyl and rarely put CD's on at home.

If I sound like a moral crusader it's because the music is very important to me and I know how the people who make the music struggle.
 
Ach, it's more this bullshit defence (in this case) that trying some will lead to more purchases.

To extend the stretched metaphor a little more, it's one thing to request a free apple to try from the market trader to see if it's good and tasty. It's another thing to demand every single bit of produce from his stall for the next month under the excuse that it'll stimulate future demand somehow.

Many of the reggae artists have fairly comprehensive myspace pages, full of example tracks. You can click and listen to their work there and get a flavour, without downloading a comprehensive whole kit and shaboodle. Nobody minds a bit of free music, but these guys could do with more support.
 
I wouldn't give a shit if the music I made was illegally downloaded, it's here to stay and there aint much anyone can do about it, shit situation? of course it is but why don't you piss and moan at the people providing it rather than the people downloading it? of course both contribute to the problem but it always seams to be the downloader that gets the grief.

It is being cracked down on though, torrentspy got hit with a huge damages bill from the film industry. Am I ripping these people off? probably but i'd still go and see these people live, the only way to get money now really is by live gigs and you can see this in the prices for live gig tickets, they've gone up shit loads.

Theft occurs in all industries I don't see why the music industry should be any different, don't like it? chose a different career, I know that sounds harsh but if you expect to make a decent living out of music you're a numpty, not saying it can't be done but it's seriously unlikely.
 
I appreciate your alternative points of view.

I fail however to see how a wider exposure to massive international audiences can ever be a bad thing...piracy has helped rush legally paid for downloads to market - you cannot deny that and artists are benefiting from that phenomenon.

On karagarga for example you can see and view films/documentaries/music that would never have seen the light of day were it not for downloading & sharing - because there would be no £ in it for the distributing company holding the rights. It's opened up everything to everyone and I can't see how that can be a bad thing I'm afraid. Especially for socially progressive music forms/software/films/art-forms. The exchange of ideas can never really be a bad thing.

Its flipped the market on its arse and fucked over the major record labels/distribution houses which can be no bad thing. I don't see the number of films being made going down anytime soon...

there are many sides to this argument.
 
chegrimandi said:
I appreciate your alternative points of view.

I fail however to see how a wider exposure to massive international audiences can ever be a bad thing...piracy has helped rush legally paid for downloads to market - you cannot deny that and artists are benefiting from that phenomenon.

On karagarga for example you can see and view films/documentaries/music that would never have seen the light of day were it not for downloading & sharing - because there would be no £ in it for the distributing company holding the rights. It's opened up everything to everyone and I can't see how that can be a bad thing I'm afraid. Especially for socially progressive music forms/software/films/art-forms. The exchange of ideas can never really be a bad thing.

Its flipped the market on its arse and fucked over the major record labels/distribution houses which can be no bad thing. I don't see the number of films being made going down anytime soon...

there are many sides to this argument.
Click to expand...

Very well said, there is so much music now and it's so widely available thanks to the internet and all it's technology.
 
The difference is that we're not talking the odd tune here, nor the mix tape/cd lovingly passed between enthusiasts. We're talking 9.5 gigs worth of music - the equivalent of doing a ram raid at your local shop using a Transit van.

I'm not that opposed to downloading illegally in the main, but this isn't a victimless action, nor does it do to pretend it is. Downloaders should show some responsibility imo - as much as smaller acts can cope in the new climate (lots more touring etc) it's not exactly great for the family work balance and in encouraging new studio material
 
200px-Home_taping_is_killing_music.png


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homesewing1.gif


etc
 
ok lets flip this on its head - why shouldn't the distribution/rights cartel of the major record/film companies who were/are only ever interested in artists/films that make them £ - why shouldn't that have been smashed when technology has given us the ability to do so?

:confused:

why should bands not have the ability to become massive through sharing/open distribution on the net and instead be subject to the whims, capriciousness and self-interest of some A & R man?
 
chegrimandi said:
I appreciate your alternative points of view.

On karagarga for example you can see and view films/documentaries/music that would never have seen the light of day were it not for downloading & sharing - because there would be no £ in it for the distributing company holding the rights. It's opened up everything to everyone and I can't see how that can be a bad thing I'm afraid. Especially for socially progressive music forms/software/films/art-forms. The exchange of ideas can never really be a bad thing.

Its flipped the market on its arse and fucked over the major record labels/distribution houses which can be no bad thing. I don't see the number of films being made going down anytime soon...

there are many sides to this argument.
Click to expand...


These aren't artists on major labels in the main though. Most used to survive on royalties from a few thousand records at a pressing.

Nor should this be considered along the same lines as socially progressive documentaries, movies from major studios and the like - this is an established music form, easy enough to listen to if you've got any motivation. The ideas were already being exchanged, albeit in a more gradual and productive way that a massive 9.5 assortment downloaded to sort through.

Equally, although you can claim that it's fucked over some major labels and distribution houses, it's also concentrated power in other hands too. Promoters and venues have considerably more clout, as do web portals and established advertising channels. Whatever you think about reggae artists in the UK market and beyond, it was a fairly equitable way of distributing content in the past - pressings could be paid for independently and promo'ed/sold as required. Expecting small reggae artists to be expert marketeers, web designers and digital download experts is perhaps a little unrealistic
 
tarannau said:
The difference is that we're not talking the odd tune here, nor the mix tape/cd lovingly passed between enthusiasts. We're talking 9.5 gigs worth of music - the equivalent of doing a ram raid at your local shop using a Transit van.

I'm not that opposed to downloading illegally in the main, but this isn't a victimless action, nor does it do to pretend it is. Downloaders should show some responsibility imo - as much as smaller acts can cope in the new climate (lots more touring etc) it's not exactly great for the family work balance and in encouraging new studio material
Click to expand...

Totally agree but seriously, what can be done about it? fuck all, it's not going to go away. Let's face it I probably won't actually listen to all 9 gigs so does that still count as stealing if I don't actually listen to it? and it's no worse downloading 9 gigs at a time then it is downloading 9 gigs over many different downloads.

People who DJ, and there are tons of them, aint gonna stop buying vinyl and if I was a DJ then I certainly would buy tons of vinyl. I download music to see if I like it, if I like it loads then i'll buy it or at the very least pay to see them live, as it is I live a very hand to mouth existence at the moment and can't afford cds.

I admit I do feel guilty sometimes but as an artist who's supposed to be doing it for art's sake what would they rather have? me hear their track for free and be happy that their music got heard by someone and they like it? or have me not hear their track at all? as has already been said, there's many different sides to the argument.
 
tarannau said:
These aren't artists on major labels in the main though. Most used to survive on royalties from a few thousand records at a pressing.

Nor should this be considered along the same lines as socially progressive documentaries, movies from major studios and the like - this is an established music form, easy enough to listen to if you've got any motivation. The ideas were already being exchanged, albeit in a more gradual and productive way that a massive 9.5 assortment downloaded to sort through.

Equally, although you can claim that it's fucked over some major labels and distribution houses, it's also concentrated power in other hands too. Promoters and venues have considerably more clout, as do web portals and established advertising channels. Whatever you think about reggae artists in the UK market and beyond, it was a fairly equitable way of distributing content in the past - pressings could be paid for independently and promo'ed/sold as required. Expecting small reggae artists to be expert marketeers, web designers and digital download experts is perhaps a little unrealistic
Click to expand...

interesting points...
 
Smoky said:
I download music to see if I like it, if I like it loads then i'll buy it or at the very least pay to see them live, as it is I live a very hand to mouth existence at the moment and can't afford cds.
Click to expand...

Good , that's what I'm arguing for. But there are surely better ways of stimulating demand than giving such a massive chunk of tunes without the artists' permission. Nor can you always use the 'socking it to the man' excuse about major labels every time - there should be a little personal responsibility imo.
 
tarannau said:
Good , that's what I'm arguing for. But there are surely better ways of stimulating demand than giving such a massive chunk of tunes without the artists' permission. Nor can you always use the 'socking it to the man' excuse about major labels every time - there should be a little personal responsibility imo.
Click to expand...

No, the socking it to man excuse is rather tiresome when it comes to downloading music.
 
the thread was put up in my excitement at finding such a huge amount of quality music in one place - for other people to share & enjoy.

As far as I was aware music is made primarily for people to enjoy - those that make it and those that hear it...music wasn't invented to make money - it was made for people to enjoy. Then some greedy twat companies realised they could make £ out of it. Without £ music would still exist and be made...

making £ is not the primary driver/reason why people make music for fuck sake. That is a huge fallacy.
 
chegrimandi said:
Without £ music would still exist and be made...
Click to expand...
there would be no professional recording and no professional musicians. i guess musicians always get screwed over because it's "not a proper job" though, that's why people who've devoted their lives to making music often die penniless and alone.
 
Yes, but music making's likely to increasingly become the preserve of the comparatively well off in this more commercialised world. The days of travelling minstrels playing for social respect , ye old groats and accommodation seem well past. Equally the people who are better at web design and distribution, coping with new market demands, aren't always the best musicians..

I'm arguing for a better balance and some discerning downloading/purchasing, that's all.
 
i still can't do it cheg!

<flops in kevin like heap>

maybe you'll burn it off for me................................... :)
 
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