Dr Who "series 11" - Jodie, Chibnall, etc

Discussion in 'books, films, TV, radio & writing' started by danny la rouge, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. 8ball

    8ball Considerably more oppressed than yow

    Go and sit on the naughty step.
     
    cupid_stunt likes this.
  2. Epona

    Epona I am Hououin Kyouma

    Yes, when being told that anyone who referred to her as Jodie was in the wrong, yes - proportionate. You don't think it's been difficult being a female fan of Doctor Who for as long as I have? Without other women fans saying calling her "Jodie" is disrespectful? It's ludicrous.
     
  3. PippinTook

    PippinTook Some are born to sweet delight

    I'm looking forward to seeing the next episode I have to say.
    I think it always takes til episode 3 or 4 to get used to a new Dr.
     
  4. The Fornicator

    The Fornicator Well-Known Member

    Bit defensive. No need. We live in changing times. You want to try and adjust to all this from a birth date in the early 1960s. We didn't even have women then, just mums and totty.
     
    spanglechick likes this.
  5. Wilf

    Wilf Meeting few of his KPIs

    I am doing. :cool:
     
  6. Epona

    Epona I am Hououin Kyouma

    Also, I do wonder whether the departure from referring to the Doctor by the surname of the actor is a move away from the whole public school thing of referring to people by surnames - that doesn't happen in ordinary schools, we do not in general refer to people by their surname if we feel we are their peers. We do not say things like "I hear that Chivers got detention again" - we call people by their first names. If the first Doctor people do this with is a woman, it is because it has broken open that whole public school boys club thing that a lot of us feel goes on in the acting industry, and that is not a bad thing, and it is not disrespectful. It means we've warmed to her.
     
  7. The Fornicator

    The Fornicator Well-Known Member

    No. Really no. Where did you get this public school tangent from, someone mentioning a grammar school? Makes no sense.
     
  8. 8ball

    8ball Considerably more oppressed than yow

    It used to in the comp I went to. Not sure if it was related to being near a military base.
     
  9. Epona

    Epona I am Hououin Kyouma

    It's fine if you don't agree with me, but to say that me referring to the current actor of the Doctor by her first name is somehow diminishing her is absolutely ludicrous.

    I am just trying to make sense of why anyone may say that.
     
    The Fornicator likes this.
  10. 8ball

    8ball Considerably more oppressed than yow

  11. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

    I teach in an ordinary school. You refer to writers, actors, directors- by their surnames. My point about it being a stuffy grammar was that treating women differently to men was old fashioned.

    If society in general was moving away from the “surname protocol” for people we don’t know, the evidence would be all over this thread when referring to the male actors. It isn’t.

    I was an actor. I work with children, some of whom want to be actors.

    Female actors are paid less, have fewer opportunities and are underepresented in casting gender-irrelevant roles. In my industry, this shit matters. I’m not going to apologise for politely pointing out an inequality that a whole stack of posters were repeating. Urban is less reactionary these days, about gender equality. This sort of thing shouldn’t be greeted with wailing and gnashing of teeth when pointed out.
     
  12. Epona

    Epona I am Hououin Kyouma

    I do think it is a class or upbringing thing perhaps, I do not consider it disrespectful to call someone by their first name if you feel they are your peer. If this is the first time that maybe a lot of us have felt that the Doctor is our peer. Let's not get too hung up on the idea of using a first name as being disrespectful. It can also indicate a feeling of closeness.
     
  13. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist specter haunting

    I thought we'd all agreed to call chibnal chin balls
     
    CNT36 and 8ball like this.
  14. 8ball

    8ball Considerably more oppressed than yow

    And an army thing.
     
  15. The Fornicator

    The Fornicator Well-Known Member

    "less respectful" - do you really think that? I sometimes think I use first names in relation to people, bosses at work for example, who have shown [me] empathy and kindness/understanding, qualities research has endlessly shown tend to be more feminine. That represents the opposite of disrespect.

    I'm no Who expert but have we previously seen the Doctor sharing philosophical thoughts about grieving and bereavement in their first episode?
     
  16. Epona

    Epona I am Hououin Kyouma

    I mean think about it - is your main argument in life right now to "correct" a lifelong female Doctor Who fan who finally got a Doctor that she could imagine herself being, by shaming her into backing off from first name terms, because it doesn't fit with your idea of giving proper respect?
     
  17. 8ball

    8ball Considerably more oppressed than yow

    I don't tbf.
     
  18. Wilf

    Wilf Meeting few of his KPIs

    Suppose it all depends on the circs. Referring to someone you know by their surname is usually an attempt to be disrespectful. When it comes to people you don't know personally, it all gets a bit... 'depends'. I tend to express my detestation of Theresa May via her full name, never go for 'Boris', alternate between Blair and Tony Blair etc etc.
     
    cupid_stunt likes this.
  19. ginger_syn

    ginger_syn Insanity laughs under pressure...

    Good point, I was being lazy
     
    spanglechick and Pickman's model like this.
  20. ginger_syn

    ginger_syn Insanity laughs under pressure...

    ?
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  21. Saul Goodman

    Saul Goodman It's all good, man

    Neither do I. I usually call them by their full name.
    Seems like a bit of a storm in a teacup. I'd say it's more respectful to call someone by their first name.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  22. PippinTook

    PippinTook Some are born to sweet delight

    I just call them Dr Who.
     
    friedaweed and CNT36 like this.
  23. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Oh piss off you pompous pretentious prig
     
  24. Epona

    Epona I am Hououin Kyouma

    Either that was a superb piece of irony (which I think it was) or you have just wandered into the internet equivalent of quicksand... :D

    Edit: that was supposed to be a quote of Pippin's post, apparently I cannot even get the simplest thing right today - quoting, being a female Doctor Who fan, apparently I am doing it all wrong.
     
  25. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

  26. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    It's just that sort of day at work too
     
    PippinTook likes this.
  27. Saul Goodman

    Saul Goodman It's all good, man

    Christopher Eccles Cake should be the currant Doctor.
     
    friedaweed and Pickman's model like this.
  28. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

    Well, given that I was quoting a poster who wasn’t you, and referred to multiple posters having done it, it would be odd of me to write hoping that you would intuit it as a direct and personal attack on you.

    I’d like to think if I wanted to correct a specific poster, I might do something in my post to show that I was directing my criticism to them, individually.

    I’m glad you think of Jodie Whittaker as a peer - but I see no reason why you would therefore put a stack of male actors in the “not your peer” category.

    As I have repeatedly said, what I’m asking for is consistency between male and female actors.
     
  29. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

    It’s just a convention. When referring to professional in certain fields, who are not personally known to us, we don’t tend to use their first names. Hence Tennant and Capaldi, rather than David and Peter.

    If you think the convention should be different, and that first names should be the rule, I’ve no massive problem with that. I just don’t want separate conventions for women. This isn’t controversial- it’s feminism 101.
     
  30. Epona

    Epona I am Hououin Kyouma

    Well I did refer to her as Jodie early on in the thread, so even if you didn't directly quote me I felt I was being called on it.

    Fwiw, I called Jon Pertwee Jon, because he was friends with my mum, and Tom Baker was Tom because I met him a few times. It's you making this into a huge thing, as if it is a massive gender issue, and it really isn't. And not all women, even feminists like me, need to agree on your strict naming conventions - I am not fully up with what the correct terms are in theatre or literature.

    If it makes you feel better that I refer to her as Whittaker from now on, then I will do so, out of wanting to make you feel ok.

    EDIT: Massive compromise from me on my first Doctor that I felt represented me, over some really stupid name thing. But she isn't just my Doctor, I need to respect what other people want her to be to me also.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018

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