Don't date Arabs! They're the enemy!

[CyberRose]

You don't seem to have an opinion on it, except to say 'whatever is the status quo right now, I can't challenge that.'

That's not politics, that's just submission

Well I gave you my opinion a short while ago. You even commented on it.

(In very simplified terms) I think Israel should evacuate all settlements and withdraw to 67 borders

So again, how does my opinion differ from yours?

And the reason I'm not gonna stop badgering you about this is cos of your comments earlier about my supposed views on Israel-Palestine (which were completely false)...so...

 

[rachamim18]

NEWSFLASH: The Jewish Faith, like most, does not encourage interfaith relationships because, EGAD, they lead to interfaith marriages which in turn....sit down you might be shocked...lead to assimilation and a demographical loss.

In the early 1950s in the US, the rate of intermarriage was at 6%. 25 years later in 1991, it was almost 60%. Numbers have risen since then. Can anyone see a pattern yet? A nationlity/ethnicity/religion (you insert your choice) is under threat of extinction. 1 out of 3 living Jews on Earth were murdered just one generation ago and here we have a school, in Israel no less, telling us that assimilation is the enemy!!!! How could they!!!!? How insensitive to wish to support ones' own seriously endangered culture and faith.


There is a seaprate issue involving Arab and Jewish marriages often leading to isolation of the women (only Jewish women marry Arabs as an Arab woman would be murdered by her family were she to even suggest such an idea - says alot that one), and too much to abuse. But that is food for another thought.

This particular subject matter has nothing to do with racism since both Jew and Arab are not onlf the same race, but same sub-grouping. I know how attractive some find it to suggest that Jews might really be out for Arabs but in reality all one need do is read the Israeli Basic Law, and then at the same sitting, read the HAMAS Charter?


Any thoughts now Spion?

 

[Spion]

My comment about supporting a football team was you seem to pick a team and want them to win no matter what. You don't seem to care about what your chosen team does, you just blindly support no matter what. You have no right to talk about issues being blurred because in your mind it is a clear cut black and white decision where the Palestinians are in the right and everything they do is 100% justified. I think taking a side to the extent you have taken a side in any conflict is just dumb...

So I should blame the victim of occupation for the occupation, is that what you're saying?

Of course I disagree massively with most of what most Palestinians think in general political terms, as I probably do with most people in the world to be honest. I do however think that the main cause of conflict is the occupation. It blights Palestinians' daily lives and it will, IMO, be the possible cause of much future conflict unless resolved

 

[Spion]

Any thoughts now Spion?

Yeah, how do you manage to post from the 19th century?

 

[Spion]

(In very simplified terms) I think Israel should evacuate all settlements and withdraw to 67 borders

So how will that be achieved and what are you doing to help bring it about?

 

[hipipol]

Bit like the "Niggers is out to rape our women"crap from the US south 50 years ago

ONE GENERATION RACH? Can you count? Oh yeah, have yer kids late an all, good middle class trait that

No decent Muslim palestinian would want to fuck a jewsih girl anyway

 

[pengaleng]

oh noes!!!11! I has comitted sinz!!!!1!!

pity I aint jewish then I'd REALLY be fucked, ripped a new one infact....

 

[Grandma Death]

NEWSFLASH: The Jewish Faith, like most, does not encourage interfaith relationships because, EGAD, they lead to interfaith marriages which in turn....sit down you might be shocked...lead to assimilation and a demographical loss.

Funny enough the BNP say the exact same thing about mixed race relationships.

 

[frogwoman]

No decent Muslim palestinian would want to fuck a jewsih girl anyway

 

[frogwoman]

Funny enough the BNP say the exact same thing about mixed race relationships.

yeah but that's different because ... erm ... umm ... it just is!

 

[Spion]

Some good comments from some Israeli readers of the Ha'aretz article. They put some of the moral pygmies who have contributed to this thread to shame:

.............

Another example of the deep racism that floods Israel society today.
Imagine this happening in France to prevent nice french girls from becoming involved with Jewish boys and the outcry of antisemitism that would follow.
Only in Israel this is allowed, Jewish racism is allowed, apparently also by the Israel education ministry.
And we are surprised that arabs hate us?

………………..

People should be allowed to fall in love with whoever they want!

Arabs & Jews have always intermarried - both in Palestine and throughout the Arab world. Judaism has always been a religion - just like Islam and Christianity - and if people fall in love with someone from a different faith, then so be it!

The Kiryat Gat schools, police, municipality and the welfare representative should all be ashamed of themselves! Our tax money will be better spent on providing Bedouin schools with their most basic needs - facilities, transportation, equipment and good teachers! Racist "education" should be illegal and those behind it should be prosecuted - just as we demand from foreign governments when it comes to fighting anti-semitism!

……………….

Nowhere else-shame

An Israeli

Whether becoming involved with a nomad bedouin is the smartest thing to do is debatable. But to wage a municipality and police supported campaign aganst relationship with Israeli citizens of Muslim faith is despicable racism which would not be tolerated in any other Western country. Shame on Israel for legally allowing this and shame on its intellectual elites. Israel has no moral right to deplore racism or anti-semitism antwhere.

………………..

SHAME ON US

ISRAELI

parents may advice their children as they estim fit however no public entity has the right to do the same.
I AM ASHAMED AND FEEL SOILED

……………….

just me

Beer Sheva

This is DISGUSTING. Please note that this is a local, and not an officially condoned, program. Please, HaAretz, follow up and tell us when it is halted!

…………….

Elianah

Haifa, Israel

I don`t want my tax money going to this. This is crazy at the highest levels, not to mention just plain WRONG.

……………….

Ever heard of personall freedom of choice

Tel Aviv

apparently not in Kiryat Gat.
It is someones basic human right to choose the partner of their choice, race, religion, nationality is irrelevant as love is all you need.
As parents we all want what is best for our children, however their happiness is what is important. If my daughter wants to marry a one legged, black muslim vegetarian single parent , and divorced well thats her choice.

 

[rachamim18]

Spion: The beuaty in living in such a pluralistic society as Israel, a liberal democracy through and through is the diversity in opinion and outlook. Caould you seriously imagine the same breadty of opinion being expressedin al Ahram or al Manar? Of course mnot and that is just my point.


You canot see the forest for looking at the trees. A poster againsy assimilation getsa a negative write up in a leftist newsrag and naive foreigners who have never been there are all up in arms. Whay they do NOT realise however, is that if tushc an atmosphgere actually existed, the govt. would never low it teo see it night and day.

So racist...OK, let us go out on your tangent. ISrael is a racist country. Why then do more than 85% of Israeli-Arabs polled say that should the PAS become independant they will stay just were they are even in the face f financial reperations. PRetty pwerful motivators money is and yet not more than 15 for every 1000 would even sconsider it.

Of course this is not to even START touching on what is contained within Arab text books, a subject I myself have written about at length here in U75. Apes and swine anyone?



Hippol:The clearly racit hate mongering on the end is the provence of Mids. I myself , as a Jew, saw much worse at far young amn age. If Mods alow it, whoam I to say otherise. As I said, I do not report anyone but if tht is how you genuinely see things you need soem mentl help.


"Spion believes most of the problem is the conflict.": Spion, I am told that ytou and I are of similar ages which makes me opine that you either came to this subject matter very late in life, or are extremely naive. The so called "occupation" did not begin intil 1967. 1-9-6-7. Say it a 3rd way : NINETEEN SIXTY SEEVEN. Violence began in 1920/ Please do the math. 57 years preceeded this fictitious occupoation. What was the reaso n then for the extermination of Metullah and Tel Chai, what was the reason for my clan humla's extermination in Hwbron 9in 1929? Or Gaza City that same year?Your premise just does not make any sense.


The violence began because the Arabs can not bet to share any land, especially land that they themselves conquering (thus leaving an indigenous piopulation in their wake. So there is NO confusion, that population were the lands' Jews.

"Occupation blights "Palestinians' daily lives.":In 1948 Trans-Jordan snatcheed all of the so called "West Bank" and even fromally annexed it. This did not blight their lives? So, why no human bombs? Egypt grabbed Gaza and alas, administered Gaza in exactly the same fashion tat Israel did and not there were no qassam rockets landing in Sharm el Sheikh, why?

Of the 4 nations mentioned only one has any historical claim to this land and guess what: It was the Jews!!!Ywt pwoplw like Spion seek to villfy us. Makes for sexy propaganda


Back to the comments section of Ha'aretz: AS most readers of that rag are native English spoeakers they , like Spiohn, have no idea what they are talking about. Most probably have not grasped the ideological investment made on the part of the Israeli Communist PArty on that tabloid but they will always have the chance to learn.

Fact is, Assimilation is indeed a real and true enemey and one that is killing mypeople. Nothing worng with mqrryion out as long as "out"
becomes in via conversion as did my wife. We Jews are literally the keepers of the longest continuous civlisation on the Earth and to see it destroyed in the Jewish Homelands of all places would be the empitome of ignorance.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

So you think, that in some circumstances, racism can be rational!? I don't.

you are conferring equal status to the situation where there is none. it's a logical falicy.

Hamas then. Altho saying that, if these Israeli schools are independent of the state then it's a very straight forward comparison is it not?

erm but then your sloppy use of terminology means that what you might as well say is the terrorist in place of the palestinians. and no israeli schools aren't run on the same basis they aren't under occupation and needing to find some halfway house to educate their children under such circumstances, oddly...

I said:

many people from both societies have (understandably one might argue) developed an irrational hatred of the other side

That's all. I don't think that statement is wrong or worthy of arguing for two pages about just because the Palestinians have had a harder time than the Israelis (of which I have never sought to disagree).

it is when you use sloppy terminology and dubious thinking and attempt to migitigate the reactions to the occupaition and systemic destrouction of an entire group of peoples or their reactions to that attempted destruction with simplistic nonsense as their racist.

the situation is overtly more complex than you are portraying moreover the warfare is asymetrical and it is almost obscene that you would attempt to migate it which such wooly thinking.

if your basic premise is wrong then it should always be challenged as all content or context afterwards is squewed.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Racism is racism and it's still not rational to take it out on a whole set of people is it? It's also worth mentioning that Palestinian hatred towards Israelis (which, lets face it, is actually Jews) contribute to the situation the Palestinians find themselves in. That Hamas will not recognise Israel and will not renounce its desire to "destroy" Israel means no progress can be made and the suffering of the Palestinians is prolonged (and please note I said "contribute", which it does, I am not saying this is the main factor or trying to excuse anything Israel has done so please take note of this disclaimer when replying, ta)

this is simplistic nonsense which bears no releation to the reality and comes as a bitter dissappointment for someone who has the highst chipher as their tag line in arabic when patently you haven't got the first scooby about the situation. is it the urban equiverlent of a kanji script tattoo on the arm of an essex boy? you have access to all the information in the world by virtue of the intenet connection you are using to post such ill informed nonsense might i suggest that you use it to educate yourself about the situation.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I believe Israel needs to evacuate all settlements in the West Bank and withdraw to 67 borders. Please please tell me how your opinion differs to mine?!

most people would see it revert to israels legal boarders declared and mandated from 1948. If israel exists at all then it's legitmacy can only be conferred by it's acceptance of the boarders which declared the clear demarkation between it and it's neighbouring palestine.

If it's legitimate that israel exists then it's also legitimate that palestine exists as they were both created by the same mandate.

learn some history eh?

I'll be the first to admit I'm a twat, but at least I don't treat the Israel Palestine conflict like it's some kind of football match where you pick a fucking side and support it no matter what

on the contray that is precisely what you have done. repeatdly.

 

[Bloody_ICE]

I read this with interest but not too fussed. Although I draw the line at the scottish. Vidoes should be made showing fried mars bars. This is what you get for marrying a scottish lass.

 

[CyberRose]

So I should blame the victim of occupation for the occupation, is that what you're saying?

No that's NOT what I'm saying at all JESUS!

I do however think that the main cause of conflict is the occupation.

It IS the main source of the conflict! How many times?!?!?! But the very fact you now say "main" suggests you are aware of other factors that contribute to the conflict other than the occupation!

 

[CyberRose]

So how will that be achieved and what are you doing to help bring it about?

If you would like to have this conversation over PM I'd be more than glad to have it (seriously!). But to answer the second part of your question: nothing

 

[Spion]

If you would like to have this conversation over PM

Why PM? Why skulk around in the shadows? It's a straighforward question.

 

[CyberRose]

Edit: Big long post deleted - can't be arsed, sorry

 

[CyberRose]

Why PM? Why skulk around in the shadows? It's a straighforward question.

I was trying to be polite, I actually thought you were interested in my opinions and didn't want to turn this into a stupidly long thread where I had to reply with the same post to a hundred different people. Sadly it seems a big long thread full of insults and no debate is what you were looking for. If you really want me to reply here I shall, just ask, otherwise we can have a polite debate elsewhere...your choice

 

[Bloody_ICE]

I can't see why in a civilized manor both israelis and palestines can't settle their differences. They do it in cricket, both teams break for lunch and share tea. Apply that same concept. Both waring factions ok enough of this silliness it is time for a break, shake hands call it a draw enjoy some biscuits.

 

[Spion]

Laugh out fucking loud! I'm being told that the "situation is more complex" by someone who believes Israel should revert to 1948 borders! You may have an inkling about how complicated the situation is, but you have NO idea whatsoever how complicated it will be to resolve the conflict so don't lecture me sonny Jim

I'm confused by you CR. You say you are against the occupation of the WB and Gaza but you won't say how this can be achieved and seem to argue the toss with those of us who come out quite clearly against it. You appear to be arguing for arguments sake, (sonny Jim )

So, how else will it be achieved other than by (in this country at least) public opinion demanding Israel fulfil its UN obligations and withdraw its military and settlers from the OTs?

(Third time I've asked you)

 

[CyberRose]

I'm confused by you CR. You say you are against the occupation of the WB and Gaza but you won't say how this can be achieved and seem to argue the toss with those of us who come out quite clearly against it. You appear to be arguing for arguments sake, (sonny Jim )

So, how else will it be achieved other than by (in this country at least) public opinion demanding Israel fulfil its UN obligations and withdraw its military and settlers from the OTs?

(Third time I've asked you)

Don't you talk to me about the amount of times you've asked a question because if you recall the only reason you're asking this question is to avoid having to answer the question I originally gave you!

But, for arguments sake, in very simple terms, my "plan for peace", in no particular order, would be as follows:

1. A full Israeli withdrawal to '67 borders (or slight deviations if these can be agreed)
2. Complete evacuation of all settlements not prepared to live under Palestinian law/sovereignty
3. All Palestinian refugees in the diaspora given the opportunity to move to the new Palestinian state in new settlements built with funds from the international community/Israel or settlement evacuated by Jewish settlers
4. Golan Heights/Shebaa given to Syria/Lebanon respectively (should go a long way to also help resolve the situation in Lebanon)
5. Jerusalem to fall under the joint sovereignty of Palestine and Israel with equal access for all faiths/nationalities
6. The new Palestinian state in Gaza and West Bank be allowed to become fully viable by having full control over borders, foreign policy, energy supply/resources etc and economic sustainability underpinned by mass investment from the West/Israel

And now for the controversial part! Well, it's the part that will make you and Garfield see red mist, but the reason for it's inclusion (I could have left it out to avoid an argument) is because one of the main reasons Israel gives for occupying West Bank is security. Now I don't believe that any more than you do (the occupation is for the settlers). However, the above is not guaranteed to stop attacks against Israel, indeed some militants have said they won't stop attacking even if the above is agreed, so any peace plan must be agreed by Israel or it won't ever come into play, so in order to ease Israeli security fears:
7. If Israel feels the need, and should the economic investment create an environment where it would not be detrimental to the new Palestinian state, then borders between Israel and Palestine could be closed for a certain cooling off period (a "Channel Tunnel" style passage to be built between Gaza and West Bank to allow free movement between the two sections)

 

[CyberRose]

So, how else will it be achieved other than by (in this country at least) public opinion demanding Israel fulfil its UN obligations and withdraw its military and settlers from the OTs?

(Third time I've asked you)

So, I've said what needs to happen, point 7 in my list offers a realistic chance of achieving that, now it's your turn to tell me the same. What do you think needs to happen and how can that realistically be achieved? Note: any settlement must be agreed by both Palestinians and Israelis

 

[Bloody_ICE]

So, I've said what needs to happen, point 7 in my list offers a realistic chance of achieving that, now it's your turn to tell me the same. What do you think needs to happen and how can that realistically be achieved? Note: any settlement must be agreed by both Palestinians and Israelis

Seems simple enough both sides regret the past, act like civilized and mature human beings and agree on a new way forward united in realistic progression as share the same geography.

Of course i am a blind idealist and swelling with pride from just reading the welsh forum but it could happen.

 

[Spion]

So, I've said what needs to happen, point 7 in my list offers a realistic chance of achieving that, now it's your turn to tell me the same. What do you think needs to happen and how can that realistically be achieved? Note: any settlement must be agreed by both Palestinians and Israelis

Most of that looks good to me. The issue of the rights of Palestinians inside Israel and that of the 1948 refugees also needs addressing with return or compensation paid for by the main perpetrators supporters and beneficiaries of their expulsion - Israel, the US, the UK. (Note: the cost of the Iraq war could have bought everyone involved in the Is-Pal conflict a house and a mid-range Mercedes)

How to achieve it? I think the key task in the UK, Europe, US etc is to enlighten public opinion on Israel's failure to live up to the numerous UN resolutions on return of the refugees and against its occupation as well as ongoing contrventions of the IV Geneva Convention. That public opinion could also be turned into action to boycott Israeli products to bring aout this change (a la the boycott of S Africa during apartheid). Inside Israel voices for peace and brotherhood with Palestinians should be doing what a minority are already in some cases doing - refusing to serve in the OTs, breaking the blockade of Gaza, reaching out to 1948 refugees, opposing racism etc etc.

On the Palestinian side, the daft Qassam firings need to be replaced with a strategy of mass action Berlin Wall style to break the blockade of Gaza, against settler violence and against the Wall.

 

[Bloody_ICE]

Besides if nothing happens in the short term to change things time and human nature will. Seperation never stops people wondering what is on the other side. New generations of israelis and palestines will want to mix. They want to travel, eventually due to the geography of the area it become so diluted in inter relationships it force change. Although by the looks of things conservatives on both sides are doing their best to slow that down. Masssive walls, promoting hate. But human nature always a strange thing, it can produce huge amounts of intolerance then a pause in wonderment, a view to interact. This is possibly the greatest fear of both sides conservative mind sets that one day won't be able to keep both sides of new generations seperate any longer, they will tear down the seragation, but why wait for it.

 

[rachamim18]

Bloody: First off, not many of us are Cricket Players so therein lies a huge problem. The problems is this. These are 2 different issues. You have a school in a mostly Jewish area that is asking its students not to intermarry with non-Jews.


Assimilation is a problem that is effecting every Jewish group in the world.. This has nothing to do with racism and certainly nothing to do with racism against Arabs.


Then you have en ENTIRE curriculum propagated among the HAMAS school district as well as the PA school disrict which depicts us Jews as literally being the product of sex between pigs and apes. Bit of a difference,



Spion: I realise that you have made a deep, deep ideological investment ion this issue and for all intensive purposes MUST villify the Jews to see any kind of payoff. Seriously now, making things uo where non-exist is a bit cheesy, is it not?

"Jews attack Arabs": I who you it is mrely a family feud.

A second "Jews Attacks Arabs": And I show you that the "Jews" are not even real in your pictures. Arabs pretennding to be Jews and not even getting half of the costume correct!


Then we have a school, a single school, with anti-assimilationist poster and you Spion try to tell us it is some nefarious government policy of racism. I really do pray that you actually are able to fly to my natrion one day and see things on the ground the way they really exist.



But then, I am led to question you as to why you have not blessed us with links to pages from HAMAS and PA curriculums showing Jews as lecherous hook nosed cretins spawned by apes and pigs. Not enough space opn your plate?


Should I instead do if for you? And while we are atr it, should I remind you AND your viewers that even posting an overtly racist picture in a school would get the offender a long prison sentence IF THE OFFENDER WERE ISRAELI.


I think that there are many issues worth discussing here Spion, sadly you have not introduced a single one. Why? Is Ideology more important than reality? We will see if we cannot change that...

 

[rachamim18]

Ahhhh, one thing did slip my mind. Do not believe for s second that just because your ideolog9cal toilet tissue, Ha'aretz, publishes something that it is all of a sudden newsworthy. This is the same Ha'aretz who knoingly published garbage 2 weeks ago on the "Jenin Massacarre," and "The Dura Case," both of which have conclusively been found to be Arab frauds.