donal macintrye on belfast paramilitaries

[Dilzybhoy]

jesus, a bunch of decent lads asking if he'd like a chicken supper just good manners, i mean he did look a tad undernourished. It's not their fault they didn't know he was dead.


Did they ask him if he wanted a can of coke too?

Chortle chortle old bean.
What about those loyalist comrades on a similar strike caught with pot noodles in their cells.
Fucking plastic pissy putrefying protest protestant prisoners... Piss poor.

 

[Dave Mullen]

I don't think that the loyalist prisoners actually had a hunger strike but I do remember that they benefitted from the special category status which was introduced.

Political awareness was not a strong point among loyalists who seem to be more interested in turf wars for control of drug dealing.

 

[Dilzybhoy]

CAIN

Friday 12 December 1980
Six members of the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) in the Maze prison start a hunger strike in support of their demand for segregation from Republican prisoners. [This Loyalist hunger strike was called off on 17 December 1980.]

Can't find anything about pot noodles though. But I was speaking to a "loyalist" friend of mine and he says so. So it must be true.

 

[cathal marcs]

Political awareness was not a strong point among loyalists who seem to be more interested in turf wars for control of drug dealing.

Some were a bit more politicaly aware than others Gusty Spence did do a lot of reading rather than havin orange parades with cardboard flutes and pumpng steroids into his body.

 

[hibee]

Some were a bit more politicaly aware than others Gusty Spence did do a lot of reading rather than havin orange parades with cardboard flutes and pumpng steroids into his body.

His introductory speech to new UVF inmates used to go like this:

Gusty: Right son, what are you in for?
Loaylist: Eh, burning down a chapel and shooting some taigs (or whatever)
Gusty: (puffs on pipe): That's not what I mean. What are you in for?

And in Gusty's case, the answer would be: "Shooting dead some innocent southern blokes who were having a quiet drink after I got pissed up and frustrated I cound't get my hands on any genuine IRA members"

 

[Dave Mullen]

There was some study about the reading material among prisoners in the Maze apparently the loyalists reaqd body building manuals whereas the republicans tended to read political and history books.

Nevertheless both groups of people are nasty pieces of work who exploit their respective community's mistrust of the police and actas judge jury and executioner. While the programme was Mcintyre's usual standard of poorly researched sensationalism. I think the RUC officer who was interviewed hit the nail on the head when he said about the term "punishment" beating implying that there was some kind of due process.(sic)

I think it quite depressing that organisations who previously used criminal activity to fund their operations act as judge jury and executioner in their own communities.

 

[gilhyle]

There was some study about the reading material among prisoners in the Maze apparently the loyalists reaqd body building manuals whereas the republicans tended to read political and history books.

THat was when Gerry wanted them to think thinking would be good for them. He's moved on now. Gerry does the thinking !

 

[audiotech]

What's poncy about "actually"? I think I speak and write dead classy. I am very highly educated and like nothing more than teasing tuff blokes with my charm and erudition.

I've seen more charm in a bowl of semolina pudding and about as much intelligence as the brain between Gary Linekers rather large ears.

Oh well, what are you going to do about it? You can't hit me, as you might like to do.

Hit you? I wouldn't piss in your general direction even if you were on fire.

Willow.

Tree?

 

[cemertyone]

I think it quite depressing that organisations who previously used criminal activity to fund their operations act as judge jury and executioner in their own communities.

Yeah that`s all very well and great Dave ....but when there is NO actual criminal justice system to speak of in the first place because ( much like the Israelis) that system has been corrupted and prostituted in order to criminalise a whole section of the community and the dessent coming from within it. And when the forces of Law and Order are part and parcel of the very problem in the first place...
Then people police themselves....

 

[fanta]

Yeah that`s all very well and great Dave ....but when there is NO actual criminal justice system to speak of in the first place because ( much like the Israelis) that system has been corrupted and prostituted in order to criminalise a whole section of the community and the dessent coming from within it. And when the forces of Law and Order are part and parcel of the very problem in the first place...
Then people police themselves....

That can still not justify a bunch of masked men smashing a teenager's limbs becaues he has been joyriding though, can it?

 

[john x]

That can still not justify a bunch of masked men smashing a teenager's limbs becaues he has been joyriding though, can it?

If he is repeatedly joyriding and the official forces of 'law and order' don't give a fuck, then I suspect it is justified.

How would you stop it?

john x

 

[fanta]

You ever seen the state of someone after a vicious beating?

You're talking shit, pal.

 

[john x]

You're talking shit, pal.

Are you going to answer my question? How would you stop anti-social behaviour in Republican areas?

john x

 

[revol68]

i know something has to be done about those cunts who have been making peoples lives hell for years, planting bombs in city centres, pubs and lording about like they own the fucking community.

seriously though there does need to be a proper community approach to the issue of hoods, and a bunch of unaccountable bigger hoods is not it.

p.s. if the PSNI dished out such brutality ona wee hood from the falls you knowthe shinners would have him at a press conference in a flash whinging on about the brutalisation of nationalist youth.

 

[fanta]

Are you going to answer my question? How would you stop anti-social behaviour in Republican areas?

john x

Guess what?

I'd follow the advice that the Sinn Fein leadership issued after the murder of Robert McCartney: ie go to the police.

And you're still talking shit, pal.

You're full of hot air you dishonest vacuous tool, gobshiting about how maiming and summary execution is 'justice'. What do you know about it? Taken a good hiding yourself have you? You know fuck all about the real implications of what you're saying.

What would you do when the masked baseball bat brigade came for you in the ealry hours one night just on somebody's say-so?

Fuck you and your false cowardly rhetoric.

You make me want to vomit.

 

[john x]

maiming and summary execution is 'justice'.

Who the fuck is claiming it is justice?

It is just a way of dealing with the situation. Your constant refusal to put forward an alternative solution give the lie to what I suspect is your real position.

That you don't actually give a fuck about what happens to the people living in Nationalist communities.

And you also need to calm down.

john x

 

[fanta]

Who the fuck is claiming it is justice?

Er, you are, you bell-end! You disgustingly chirruped, and I quote: 'If he is repeatedly joyriding and the official forces of 'law and order' don't give a fuck, then I suspect it is justified.'

It is just a way of dealing with the situation. Your constant refusal to put forward an alternative solution give the lie to what I suspect is your real position.

That is one way of describing the KKK/lynch-mob approach to justice I suppose, abeit contemptible and barbaric.

And I have suggested and alternative; one that was also suggested by - you guessed it - Gerry Adams et al! Well, DUH!!!! Why can't that simple fact penetrate your dense clumsy thinking?

That you don't actually give a fuck about what happens to the people living in Nationalist communities.

What utter desperate buzzard shit!

I confess it is true that I have no sectarian interest in who wins this stupid unwinnable conflict - I'd prefer to see the establishment of a secular united Ireland where real equal rights are guarranteed to both nationalist and their unionist Protestant neighbours.

Im more concerned with economics and class - unlike you. Thanks, though for making your nasty petty sectarian preferences known though.

And you also need to calm down.

I am calm, though I admit that ignorance, uninformed stupidity and a penchant for lynch-mob justice do try my patience at times.

Now piss off!

 

[bolshiebhoy]

I confess it is true that I have no sectarian interest in who wins this stupid unwinnable conflict - I'd prefer to see the establishment of a secular united Ireland where real equal rights are guarranteed to both nationalist and their unionist Protestant neighbours.

Im more concerned with economics and class - unlike you. Thanks, though for making your nasty petty sectarian preferences known though.

As it happens fanta I agree with what you have to say about punishment beatings. They are barbaric and I don't accept the provos have a right to police 'their' community.

But do you really expect us to believe you are some even handed class warrior when looking back over just the last few pages of your posts across urban's ppp threads it's obvious 99% of your political energy is spent attacking Irish Republicans, not promoting socialist politics?

 

[fanta]

I think attacking (militant) Irish Republicans is warranted given what a largely unpleasant sectarian bunch they can be despite their left wing and pseudo-socialist rhetoric.

And, arguably, by highlighting their hypocrisy and that of their pathetic supporters, I am promoting real socialist politics.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

I think attacking (militant) Irish Republicans is warranted given what a largely unpleasant sectarian bunch they can be despite their left wing and pseudo-socialist rhetoric.

The parentheses say a lot. So moderate Irish Republicans are ok then? When Bertie and the whole stinking FF cabal would describe themselves as such and even try to dress themselves in social democratic clothes these days. And yet they are one of the biggest bunch of backward bigots on the island and guitly of ten times the unpleasantness that can arguably be laid at the door of the provos. In my experience some of the best fighters for socialism and against oppression of all kinds are those coming from a militant Irish Republican background. Which is more than can be said for any supporters of a a hardline Loyalist or jingo English position.

And, arguably, by highlighting their hypocrisy and that of their pathetic supporters, I am promoting real socialist politics.

A complete non sequiter as the miserable career of 'left provo baiter' Eoin Harris amply demonstrates.

 

[john x]

I am calm, though I admit that ignorance, uninformed stupidity and a penchant for lynch-mob justice do try my patience at times.

I wondered when you would get round to Loyalist paramilitaries. A subject you have been very quiet about.

john x

 

[gilhyle]

The nature of Republicanism in N.I. has changed. Having accepted the 'peace process' they have, as one Adam's supporter admitted some years ago, agreed to rule N.I. for the crown.

MOre significantly they have supported, advocated, required as the price of peace, the institutionalization of sectarianism.

In that context, punishment beatings become transformed from a way for an oppressed community to police itself in the face of a sectarian police force into a way for Adams to hegemonise the nationalist population. It becomes an oppresive feature of an imposed nationalist consensus.

It is an old story in Ireland, on both sides.

As long as Republicanism was fighting the Government punishment beatings were justified, now they are an electoral tactic.

 

[CWalken]

The nature of Republicanism in N.I. has changed. Having accepted the 'peace process' they have, as one Adam's supporter admitted some years ago, agreed to rule N.I. for the crown.

MOre significantly they have supported, advocated, required as the price of peace, the institutionalization of sectarianism.

In that context, punishment beatings become transformed from a way for an oppressed community to police itself in the face of a sectarian police force into a way for Adams to hegemonise the nationalist population. It becomes an oppresive feature of an imposed nationalist consensus.

It is an old story in Ireland, on both sides.

As long as Republicanism was fighting the Government punishment beatings were justified, now they are an electoral tactic.

Very well said.

 

[Dilzybhoy]

MOre significantly they have supported, advocated, required as the price of peace, the institutionalization of sectarianism.

 

[Idris2002]

Dilz, what do you think the registration of parties in the assembly as 'nationalist', 'unionist' or 'other' was about?

The consociational approach of the GFA was based on the assumption that sectarianism couldn't be ended, but could be managed. The assembly was an institution for the management of sectarianism. Hence it was the institutionalisation of sectarianism.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

The nature of Republicanism in N.I. has changed. Having accepted the 'peace process' they have, as one Adam's supporter admitted some years ago, agreed to rule N.I. for the crown.

MOre significantly they have supported, advocated, required as the price of peace, the institutionalization of sectarianism.

In that context, punishment beatings become transformed from a way for an oppressed community to police itself in the face of a sectarian police force into a way for Adams to hegemonise the nationalist population. It becomes an oppresive feature of an imposed nationalist consensus.

It is an old story in Ireland, on both sides.

As long as Republicanism was fighting the Government punishment beatings were justified, now they are an electoral tactic.

This is absolute nonsense - just a weak echo of left-wing criticism of the Good Friday Agreement in the 90's. I remember at the time charges of SELL OUT! from the Trotskite side-line snipers. My reaction was, Go on then, walk down the Falls Road and tell them they've sold out. See what their reaction is.

 

[cathal marcs]

This is absolute nonsense - just a weak echo of left-wing criticism of the Good Friday Agreement in the 90's. I remember at the time charges of SELL OUT! from the Trotskite side-line snipers. My reaction was, Go on then, walk down the Falls Road and tell them they've sold out. See what their reaction is.

Try 229 on the Falls they will tell you they have sold out.

The GFA is nothing more than a sectarian headcount it isn't farleft rhetoric i is a simple FACT. It may have brought about some progressive reforms but at the same time i does nothing to end sectarianism. If anythin it has encouraged it n m view.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Try 229 on the Falls they will tell you they have sold out.

The GFA is nothing more than a sectarian headcount it isn't farleft rhetoric i is a simple FACT. It may have brought about some progressive reforms but at the same time i does nothing to end sectarianism. If anythin it has encouraged it n m view.

Nobody pays any attention to anything anybody says in 229 Falls Road.

 

[cathal marcs]

Nobody pays any attention to anything anybody says in 229 Falls Road.

Neither do I but it still is a secarian headcount none the less DC.

 

[Dilzybhoy]

Dilz, what do you think the registration of parties in the assembly as 'nationalist', 'unionist' or 'other' was about?

The consociational approach of the GFA was based on the assumption that sectarianism couldn't be ended, but could be managed. The assembly was an institution for the management of sectarianism. Hence it was the institutionalisation of sectarianism.

Agreed.