ginger_syn
Her Insanity laughs under pressure...👾
enjoyed your posts squeegee.lucid and lyrical
Does 10th Planet Spell Doom for Astrology??
- Thread starter Bunniverse
- Start date
enjoyed your posts squeegee.lucid and lyricalOxpecker said:Squeegee, I haven't got a scooby what you're on about, mate, but you don't half write nice. It was a real pleasure to read all that bollocks, and for a moment there you almost had me believing
A pleasure (kind of) and thanks to you and ginger_syn. But it really is pointless if opinions cannot be swayed by reasoned argument.
Nick 1181 just gave an excellent description of what astrology is, or is coming to be understood as (yes it too is undergoing change from the superstitions and misunderstandings in the past of why it worked - that's called evolution). As Combustible rightly said, metaphor and symbol are human contructs. And so is astrology. It is a map. The planets do not physically affect us or force us to do anything. We use them as archetypes to explain the inner workings of the unconscious. And since EVERYTHING is connected the "As above, so below" notion allows the planets to function well as outer representations of the inner workings of our psyche.
Combustible's "colour is modelled accurately by science" is a perfect description of the limits of mechanistic science. So when you see a red sunset, how do you know it's a glorious red sunset? You don't you just say "the model of the colour red is caused by the light which reaches our atmosphere from this ball of nuclear fusion reaction we call the sun, which is now reacting with the atmosphere causing an intensity of the model construct of the colour red" and most would be asleep by that point...you are speaking to the left brain, the logical half. Half the story
WFT does "modelled accurately" MEAN to our FEELING of the beauty of a glorious red sunset, cos what the colour is and how it makes us feel is interpreted by our right side, our intuitive half. The other half of the story.
And yes this argument has all been done before and it was embarrasing going back to that post a year ago and finding the same arguments and the same unwillingness to discuss this in a civil way. And I'm as much to blame for that. I've not been one for politeness since the beginning on these boards, which is why I don't post so often, as the only other subject that enrages me as much as discussions (or lack of) on spirituality are discussions (or lack of) on cover-ups of 911 and the mini-me of 7/7.
So let's leave it at that shall we? Have a good evening one and all
Macabre
digiratti
Despite have a masters in chemistry, Im actually quite interested in astrology, I find it fascinating how different cultures through history have tried to explain the world around them. Philisophically they tend to sound but the concepts just need updated with current knowledge, eg the whole 4 elements thing in alchemy (earth, wind, water and fire) actually describe the 4 orders of matter (solid, liquid, gas and energy (E=mc2)). The same with yoga when it descibes wind element in the body is actually describing blood flow.
Current theories in physics say time doesnt actually excist - past, present and future are all one. Its not understood why we remeber the past but cant effect it, yet cant remember the future but we appear to be able effect it. Its thought that its to do with our brain wiring that determines how we perceive the universe. It is theoretically that people can perceive the world differentlly, through drugs, illness, whatever, could see the future. It also means that as the future is written we actually have a destiny, kind off. But so much shit and superstition is mixed in with something that and be analysed and measured so is not reliable and should be taken with a bucket of salt.
Personally, I dont believe its a means of telling the future, horoscopes are a sack of vague, suggestable, self-forfilling shite IMO. But I think there are too many coincidences in human history that line up well, like the beginning of the age of pisces at the time of jesuss' birth (thats why a fish is a symbol of christ) and it being the sign of faith, and now were going into the age of aquarius, the ages of knowledge and science, which began in 1957 and the transition will be complete in 2062. And given the current battles between science and religion , particularly with islam and christianity in america atm, 2062 seems a plausable time for it to be ironed out.
Also, my birth chart is absolutely spot on, not the only 12 people charts you get in the papers. Astrology gives huinderds of thousands of personality types, if you have to time and location of birth you can get a semi decent one done here (www.astro.com) for free.
Like I said, im not going to put any faith in the stuff, I just find it interesting historically and culturally, but it think there are too many coincedinces to completely chuck it out the window. Plus, just because science cant prove something doesnt mean it isnt possible, history is full of things that were dismissed as stupid superstitions and were then later proved to be true, part of the social bagage that christianity brought when it demonised pagan rituals. Actually, the more science i learn the more open minded i am to spiritual things being possible. In the grand scheme of things we know fuck all about the universe so anything is still possible.
Apologise for the long ramble, its that long and unstructure not even I can be bothered to reread it.
Current theories in physics say time doesnt actually excist - past, present and future are all one. Its not understood why we remeber the past but cant effect it, yet cant remember the future but we appear to be able effect it. Its thought that its to do with our brain wiring that determines how we perceive the universe. It is theoretically that people can perceive the world differentlly, through drugs, illness, whatever, could see the future. It also means that as the future is written we actually have a destiny, kind off. But so much shit and superstition is mixed in with something that and be analysed and measured so is not reliable and should be taken with a bucket of salt.
Personally, I dont believe its a means of telling the future, horoscopes are a sack of vague, suggestable, self-forfilling shite IMO. But I think there are too many coincidences in human history that line up well, like the beginning of the age of pisces at the time of jesuss' birth (thats why a fish is a symbol of christ) and it being the sign of faith, and now were going into the age of aquarius, the ages of knowledge and science, which began in 1957 and the transition will be complete in 2062. And given the current battles between science and religion , particularly with islam and christianity in america atm, 2062 seems a plausable time for it to be ironed out.
Also, my birth chart is absolutely spot on, not the only 12 people charts you get in the papers. Astrology gives huinderds of thousands of personality types, if you have to time and location of birth you can get a semi decent one done here (www.astro.com) for free.
Like I said, im not going to put any faith in the stuff, I just find it interesting historically and culturally, but it think there are too many coincedinces to completely chuck it out the window. Plus, just because science cant prove something doesnt mean it isnt possible, history is full of things that were dismissed as stupid superstitions and were then later proved to be true, part of the social bagage that christianity brought when it demonised pagan rituals. Actually, the more science i learn the more open minded i am to spiritual things being possible. In the grand scheme of things we know fuck all about the universe so anything is still possible.
Apologise for the long ramble, its that long and unstructure not even I can be bothered to reread it.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Aye, a belief in astrology is probably no worse than having faith in God, Allah or some political ideology...well, some ideologies at least.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
Doesn't current science claim that space is folded?
What if all matter is folded as well?
Then maybe when you look up at the stars at night you are actually looking at the atoms within yourself. The position of the 'planets' would then have a direct effect on you as they are part of you. This could also explain a lot of other 'paranormal' phenomena as well.
Just a thought.
<white van for wouldbe>
What if all matter is folded as well?
Then maybe when you look up at the stars at night you are actually looking at the atoms within yourself. The position of the 'planets' would then have a direct effect on you as they are part of you. This could also explain a lot of other 'paranormal' phenomena as well.
Just a thought.
<white van for wouldbe>
nino_savatte said:
Well the key words there are belief and ideology. I don't think there's any need to mix astrology up with belief. All it is is a set of metaphors.
I personally am directly, specifically and deliberatly hostile to religion, and have serious doubts about "spirituality". I find astrology/tarot etc quite interesting though - seeing patterns emerge when you superimpose a set of archetypes over a chaotic situation. I don't think there's anything magical about it - other than that there does seem to be this thing where the use of a reality map might possibly be able to affect the underlieing terrain - where there's no visible cause-and effect mechanism for it to do so (and this is basically what magic is).
Looked at from the perspective of a reality map over a chaotic situation, all this really is though is Heisenburg writ large - the fact that electrons/photons etc change behaviour depending on how you look at them. It may just be that this tendency is applicable in wider spheres. There's nothing unscientific about this - mere possibility.
Macabre
digiratti
WouldBe said:Doesn't current science claim that space is folded?
What if all matter is folded as well?
Then maybe when you look up at the stars at night you are actually looking at the atoms within yourself. The position of the 'planets' would then have a direct effect on you as they are part of you. This could also explain a lot of other 'paranormal' phenomena as well.
Just a thought.
<white van for wouldbe>
Nah, space is folded but matter cant occupy the same space afawk, but things can be in two places at the same time though.
Macabre
digiratti
then that would be a black hole, which isnt really a folding of time space, more a colapsing
kind of
quantum physics gets a bit beyond me at this point
e2a: Also the space inside atoms isnt a baron void, mathamatitions(sp?) are looking into the fields inside to try and unlock 'atomic memory' which should hold the entire history of the atom from when it was created, ie the big bang. It also has some spirituallity associated with it in that if the atom used to be part of a living thing and became incorpirated into another, in theory, you could have access to its memorys
kind of
quantum physics gets a bit beyond me at this point
e2a: Also the space inside atoms isnt a baron void, mathamatitions(sp?) are looking into the fields inside to try and unlock 'atomic memory' which should hold the entire history of the atom from when it was created, ie the big bang. It also has some spirituallity associated with it in that if the atom used to be part of a living thing and became incorpirated into another, in theory, you could have access to its memorys
WouldBe
Dislicksick
Macabre said:
That theory could allow for mind reading then as you could breath in a particle of CO2 that someone else had breathed out and hence have access to their memories
As I understand it the higher elements can only be produced in a star so our solar system and us must have come from a previous collapsed star. Therefore the atoms in us and the planets came from this previous solar system. There was that experiment where a pair of electrons were separated and one had it's spin direction altered. The other distant electron changed it's spin (telepathically) at the same time. So there is a chance that changes to an atom on Jupiter through 'atomic memory' could have an effect on us.
Macabre
digiratti
kind of, its one of those far fetched theorys that could be but are unlikely. If the research does bare some fruit no body really has a scooby what will be gotten from it.
Most of the higher elements are man made, but it is believed that they, and new ones, could be in the centre of the earth or sun were the presures are very high allowing fusion into larger atoms to take place.
Most of the higher elements are man made, but it is believed that they, and new ones, could be in the centre of the earth or sun were the presures are very high allowing fusion into larger atoms to take place.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
You seem to have a strange view of the universe - as combustible points out, all these things are human constructs. Colour has been accurately mapped by science - and while your quote about the sun might be a little long winded it's more accurate than 'a glourious red sunset' which is subjective - 'glorious' and 'red' are both words with a specific meaning attached to them through our creation of langauge. The process you describe is what actually happens, 'glorious red sunset' is the somewhat clichéd langauge you could use to describe it.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
WouldBe/Macabre...atomic memory...
Much of Frank Herberts Dune is based on a similar idea. The taking of the Water of Life and subsequent 'seeing within' uses an idea similar to this.
Much of Frank Herberts Dune is based on a similar idea. The taking of the Water of Life and subsequent 'seeing within' uses an idea similar to this.
kyser_soze said:
So what is the function of the right-hand side of the brain? And glorious red sunset might be a cliche, and the beauty of a sunset subjective, but does that make it any less valid? And does the value attached to something, being subjective also, make it any less real?
Quantity and Quality. Explain the difference please. Can mechanistic science define quality?
Macabre
digiratti
kyser_soze said:
Exactly, when it was written how many people would dismiss it as pure fantasy, but as soon as something comes up that suggests it could be true...
So many old wives tales are being shown to have more and more credibility as technology takes a closer look. That why I never completely rule anything out, thats bad science, just some things seem bloody unlikely.
Similar threads
