ginger_syn
Her Insanity laughs under pressure...👾
The first one and the last one
Doctor Who - the 50th anniversary special
- Thread starter Santino
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
watched first half of 'The Five Doctors' the other day.
whats startlingt in contrast to new who isn't the shonky effects, but the pacing. Whole seconds can pass without dialouge or music
whats startlingt in contrast to new who isn't the shonky effects, but the pacing. Whole seconds can pass without dialouge or music
By not developing whether there was a connection between the Omega Bomb and Rose consuming Tardis energy.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Caught up with it last night, and it was mostly very enjoyable.
It did take me a while to really get into it tho. Mainly because - the Galifreyan high council always look rather shit; Queen Bess was a bit rubbish; but mainly, it just didnt follow from the end of the last series. There they jumped into the Docs own timeline and met War Doc. But at the begnining of this....none of that had seemingly happened.
But still, so many great bits, loadsa class lines, almost too many really, and great chemistry between the three docs
It did take me a while to really get into it tho. Mainly because - the Galifreyan high council always look rather shit; Queen Bess was a bit rubbish; but mainly, it just didnt follow from the end of the last series. There they jumped into the Docs own timeline and met War Doc. But at the begnining of this....none of that had seemingly happened.
But still, so many great bits, loadsa class lines, almost too many really, and great chemistry between the three docs
In the '90s they released a special edition of The Five Doctors, with "updated" special effects. I have it around here.....somewhere.
Kuso
drinking like george best, gettin less women
Yeah, this confused me a bit too, unless all this was going on inside the jumped into time stream and the Xmas special will pick up where the end of last season left off, Trenzellor, death of the doctor etc etc
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
I’ve now watched Dalek Invasion of Earth.
With all the goodwill in the world, it doesn’t stand the test of time. For a start, the pacing is stilted, uneven and downright creaky. I’m not talking slow; I’m talking inept. I don’t want constant action (I’m a fan of the films of Claude Chabrol, for Christ’s sake), but I do require flow, coherence, even plot development, and compelling story-telling. The light and shade has to be constructed, not haphazard, and the momentum has to come from more than hastily constructed cliffhangers.
The dialogue didn’t sound natural or convincing, and often seemed unfinished. Scenes fizzled out, and the story took all 6 episodes to get going, only to abruptly end.
The only scene worth watching was the Doctor’s famous farewell to Susan, and even the lead into that was badly handled. Furthermore, she was left behind without being asked her thoughts on the matter, with no change of clothes and only one shoe!
There were flashes of charisma from Hartnell as the Doctor, not from any dialogue, but sheer force of personality, however for great swathes of screen time he was absent.
I wasn’t expecting anything from the special effects. But some of the switches to models were unintentionally hilarious. And the sight of Ian “struggling” to lift 3 sticks we’re supposed to believe are heavy and will stop a Dalek bomb from hollowing out the core of the earth was ludicrous.
Having loved the first episode of An Unearthly Child (although I thought the rest of the serial was deeply unconvincing and half-arsed), I was hoping for more construction of that calibre. Alas, it failed to materialise.
This is not about it being antiquated; I’m a fan of antiquated. It’s about competence.
This was far worse than even the worst of Moffat’s later Smith episodes. It’s in a whole different category.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I don't watch much modern tv in large part because I don't like the pacing these days. There are exceptions, and the old stuff has different pacing issues of its own at times. Especially for the weaker stories that don't really justify being spread across so many episodes.
I don't think anything can top the Movellans.
They looked like robot backing singers for Earth Wind and Fire.
They looked like robot backing singers for Earth Wind and Fire.
Most of Hartnell's stories suffer from pacing problems and being far too long. To be fair to them, they were never intended to be watched in one go from start to finish so most of the early Doctor Who stories suffer from a lot of padding and irrelevant subplots. Taken as a whole, the plot structure is a bit all over the place, but taken as individual 20 minute episodes the pacing and structure is a little tighter, if that makes sense.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
I should say, I did watch them one at a time. Admittedly not a week apart.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Sadly you are likely to see this picture repeated in various ways throughout episodes of the original run, including even some of the stories deemed classics by many.
Some of the pacing issues improve steadily over the entire run of original doctors, especially beyond the black-and-white stuff. Others not so much. Lazy cliffhangers and some stories that are not worth telling don't exactly go away. Character development is highly variable and infrequent, and often relies on moments of interesting acting rather than the script itself.
I do not find it too hard to overlook the flaws when there is a decent story going on, but it is pretty rare to find even a quality story from the original run that doesn't go off the rails at at least one point. The forgiveness required to get that much out of the original doctor who requires not just an expectation of poor special effects, but the other implications of the budget and timescale they ran on back then. And when it comes to what special effects offer these days, its not just how they look but the way they can be used to pursue much grander visions. e.g. many of the original who episodes are limited not just by the set, but the small number of people in the cast. There are so few extras and no opportunity to have computer-generated ones, so things can feel rather small and claustrophobic in more ways than one.
I like Genesis of the Daleks a lot. It does not escape all of the above problems at all, but it has its moments and is not lacking in politics or some interesting dialogue.
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
It's also worth remembering some of the other issues they faced back then. Episodes were recorded barely a couple of weeks before they were broadcast, with stories often being written to tight schedules - scripts that were written and ready often found themselves bumped up the recording schedule because there was nothing else to film.
In addition to this filming was so expensive, that it was common for there to only be one take of each scene, hence why you got Hartnell stumbling over his lines being left in. It also left it open to unscripted moments of inspiration finding their way into the only cut of course, so it worked both ways.
I know this doesn't really do a lot to actually improve those episodes, but the conditions they were made under (often over 40 episodes a year!) show what a feat of broadcasting it was to get them out every week.
To a certain extent, many of those issues such as tight filming schedules are still in existence, hence why you get your fair share of duff episodes each season - I'm pretty sure a couple of recent series have either overrun or had to be rushed. That's why some of the seasons have been split too. The bigger budgets don't necessarily mean that those making the show are less hard pressed to get the film in the can every year!
In addition to this filming was so expensive, that it was common for there to only be one take of each scene, hence why you got Hartnell stumbling over his lines being left in. It also left it open to unscripted moments of inspiration finding their way into the only cut of course, so it worked both ways.
I know this doesn't really do a lot to actually improve those episodes, but the conditions they were made under (often over 40 episodes a year!) show what a feat of broadcasting it was to get them out every week.
To a certain extent, many of those issues such as tight filming schedules are still in existence, hence why you get your fair share of duff episodes each season - I'm pretty sure a couple of recent series have either overrun or had to be rushed. That's why some of the seasons have been split too. The bigger budgets don't necessarily mean that those making the show are less hard pressed to get the film in the can every year!
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
Isn't it Genesis where you gat that fabulous scene when the Daleks invade the Thal city? They only had three Dalek props on set, meaning that as soon as three Daleks sweep past, there's a pause while they nip round the back of the set and come round again.
Cid
Proper break this time
danny la rouge did you watch any other Hartnell? original Daleks, Keys of Marinus, Aztecs etc?
ginger_syn
Her Insanity laughs under pressure...👾
I quite like the ambiguity of that, 'though I can see how it could be unsatisfying for some.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
I’ve watched episode 1 of Troughton’s “Invasion” now. That was much better; much tighter.
It had actually been written with an understanding of dramatic tension. The pace, rather than being inept, was simply antiquated. But it was well-constructed. The cliff hanger was properly set up by the story-line, rather than just randomly thrown in (as happened in the episode of Dalek Invasion where two Robo-men suddenly appear with a bomb). A far more professional job.
This was more like I was expecting. It is still slightly am-drammy at times, the budgets still don’t run to much (although the sets are comparatively better), and it is definitely of its time, but you get the feeling that the writers and director had learned their craft now.
Once I’ve seen more episodes, I’ll tell you if the story is any good.
It had actually been written with an understanding of dramatic tension. The pace, rather than being inept, was simply antiquated. But it was well-constructed. The cliff hanger was properly set up by the story-line, rather than just randomly thrown in (as happened in the episode of Dalek Invasion where two Robo-men suddenly appear with a bomb). A far more professional job.
This was more like I was expecting. It is still slightly am-drammy at times, the budgets still don’t run to much (although the sets are comparatively better), and it is definitely of its time, but you get the feeling that the writers and director had learned their craft now.
Once I’ve seen more episodes, I’ll tell you if the story is any good.
Cid
Proper break this time
Ah, I've been watching on Dailymotion, so haven't paid for them - probably a slightly higher tolerance for crapness. I wasn't particularly impressed with the first serial, quite liked the first Daleks and found Marinus ok. Aztecs got a bit boring really.
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
When is the next one scheduled?
ruffneck23
front left
Christmas Day
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
Ah. Thanks ruffneck. *lazy me*
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
'Is Doctor Who a lefty?'
http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/11/spin-doctor
no, no he isn't. He's the universes biggest liberal. Thats why he's a-ok with genocide but flinches when there is a threat to someone close to him.
http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/11/spin-doctor
no, no he isn't. He's the universes biggest liberal. Thats why he's a-ok with genocide but flinches when there is a threat to someone close to him.
Who would win in a liberalthon between the Doctor and Picard?
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
Makes more sense than River Song's appearance in the previous episode. OK right, so she's a digital copy of herself stored in a computer in the future transmitted into Clara's brain via a dream which Clara had long since woken up from. And then we find out that the Doctor can somehow see and hear someone who is basically a figment of Clara's imagination, and apparently always had been able to see her even before Clara dreamed her up. And the Tardis can hear her too of course.
All of which nonsense was apprently thrown in to allow the Doctor's tomb to be opened without us finding out what his name is. I reckon they could've just had him whisper his name instead, that would've been a lot less shit.
ginger_syn
Her Insanity laughs under pressure...👾
but so boring and lame.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Picard I think. Because he's part of a massive passive aggressive space fleet whereas the Doc is a one-man band. Like monbiot compared to scandinavia
mwgdrwg
Be a Pisces. Jam.
I'm watching TNG again at the moment, they're always breaking the 'Prime Directive'
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