Do you wish that you could speak Welsh?

[editor]

The school I went to had both English and Welsh streams, it was rural school with a large catchement area, Preselli school which was the next nearest school (at least 20 miles away) was the same, however it now only teaches in Welsh, it's bad enough having to travel miles to go to your nearest school but to have to travel even futher to a school that teaches in English IMO is unacceptable.

Seeing as kids taught in the medium of Welsh tend to do better than those from English-only schools, and the fact that they'll come out speaking English just as well as anyone else, I really can't really see the problem.

 

[Buds]

I have a GCSE in Welsh and can barely speak a word of the language. But then I live in an almost exclusively English speaking area of Wales so there's not much call for it really.

Seeing as kids taught in the medium of Welsh tend to do better than those from English-only schools, and the fact that they'll come out speaking English just as well as anyone else, I really can't really see the problem.

I can't speak for the rest of the country but this isn't the case in Gwent. Welsh medium schools are some way short of the standard of English medium schools at both Primary and Secondary levels.

 

[Brockway]

I tried to learn it when I was at university in Wales. I couldn't find the classroom which was in one of the Welsh-speaking halls of residence so I asked someone where it was in English and they answered me in Welsh. So I thought fuck you then and went home.
So if it wasn't for that one tosser, I might be able to speak it.

My grandad forgot how to speak English when he got Alzheimers. Which was a bit inconvenient as he was in Charing X Hospital.

Yes, how dare they not speak to you in English. And some people think the English are arrogant colonizing wankers...

 

[Brockway]

There was still a fair bit of hostility when I was there (97 - 2000)

Hopefully there's more hostility.

 

[rhys gethin]

I have a GCSE in Welsh and can barely speak a word of the language. But then I live in an almost exclusively English speaking area of Wales so there's not much call for it really.



I can't speak for the rest of the country but this isn't the case in Gwent. Welsh medium schools are some way short of the standard of English medium schools at both Primary and Secondary levels.

Possibly good teachers don't have a great urge to live amongst people who show such daft hostility to one of the greatests gifts they can be offered, but on the whole I think this is probably on the same level as the vast numbers of Poles and sub-continentals Newport people seem so readily to fantasise as crowding their streets. Why should Gwent be so different from everywhere else, after all? Perhaps it goes back to the days when their masters were telling the simple folk of Gwent that they were English, and hotly denying anyone had ever spoken our language there. I was born in Machen, myself, where both my parents certainly spoke it , as had some of my great-grandparents in Mynyddislwyn. 'Welsh' used to be very badly taught, but partial blindness and deafness were taught very well indeed, I am beginning to think.

 

[Space Girl]

Seeing as kids taught in the medium of Welsh tend to do better than those from English-only schools, and the fact that they'll come out speaking English just as well as anyone else, I really can't really see the problem.

the problem is that children who do not speak Welsh can not go to their local school as they only teach in Welsh

 

[Buds]

Possibly good teachers don't have a great urge to live amongst people who show such daft hostility to one of the greatests gifts they can be offered, but on the whole I think this is probably on the same level as the vast numbers of Poles and sub-continentals Newport people seem so readily to fantasise as crowding their streets. Why should Gwent be so different from everywhere else, after all? Perhaps it goes back to the days when their masters were telling the simple folk of Gwent that they were English, and hotly denying anyone had ever spoken our language there.

Perhaps there are good teachers living amongst us "daft" Gwent folk but perhaps there is a lower concentration of them teaching in Welsh medium schools?

I never said that Gwent is different from the rest of Wales but having been to school in the area and worked in schools in area I feel I am more confident offering a comment on educational performance here than I would be on Dyfed or Gwynedd.

I think you need to get that chip of your shoulder mate.

 

[editor]

the problem is that children who do not speak Welsh can not go to their local school as they only teach in Welsh

With respect, what do you expect if you're living in Wales?

 

[Belushi]

the problem is that children who do not speak Welsh can not go to their local school as they only teach in Welsh

I'm not sure why that should be a problem, there were plenty of children with monolingual English speaking parents when I went to a Welsh language primary in the 70 - I suspect there are probably many more now.

My (English) Mum learnt Welsh at night classes so she could understand what my Dad was saying to us

 

[llantwit]

With respect, what do you expect if you're living in Wales?

Whith respect, 79.5% of people in Wales don't speak Welsh.

 

[Belushi]

Whith respect, 79.5% of people in Wales don't speak Welsh.

You think they'd have picked it up from the roadsigns by now

 

[llantwit]

Some people will never get it.

 

[editor]

Whith respect, 79.5% of people in Wales don't speak Welsh.

With respect, nearly a quarter of the population said that they could understand Welsh in 2001 and that figure is likely to have risen in the past five years.

In 2001, nearly 40% of children aged 10 to 15 and 25 per cent of 16 to 19 year olds were able to speak, read and write Welsh.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=447

 

[Gromit]

Whith respect, 79.5% of people in Wales don't speak Welsh.

But how many speak welsh in that community. The above stat is scewed by the high population centres in South Wales where little welsh is spoken but there are parts of Wales where communities struggle to speak english.

Aside from that if you set up home in a dutch community would you expect the lessons to be held in english purely because a lot of duth can speak english? Just cause we are attached to England it doesn't mean we should have any less right to our own language than Holland does.

To my mind as it’s the English who deliberately tried to destroy our language I don’t think the welsh assembly should be paying for the promotion of the language. I think England should be paying reparations the same as the perpetrator of any war crime would. Yes that how I see England’s undermining of our culture, a war crime.

 

[llantwit]

To my mind as it’s the English who deliberately tried to destroy our language I don’t think the welsh assembly should be paying for the promotion of the language. I think England should be paying reparations the same as the perpetrator of any war crime would. Yes that how I see England’s undermining of our culture, a war crime.

Don't disagree with you - but the situation we live with now is that Wales is a bilingual country, and I believe Space Girl was making a point about kids not being able to go to thier local school and be taght in English.
Anyway - this a whole can of worms I don't really want to get into again. I don't care about it strongly enough, tbh.

 

[rhys gethin]

Perhaps there are good teachers living amongst us "daft" Gwent folk but perhaps there is a lower concentration of them teaching in Welsh medium schools?

I never said that Gwent is different from the rest of Wales but having been to school in the area and worked in schools in area I feel I am more confident offering a comment on educational performance here than I would be on Dyfed or Gwynedd.

I think you need to get that chip of your shoulder mate.

What chip is that then? Do you work in a 'Welsh medium school'? If not, what exactly are you comparing with what, and on what basis? I'm a fairly experienced teacher, but I wouldn't consider myself competent to lay down the law about schools - Catholic or Muslim ones, say - that I had no experience of. I have never lived in Dyfed or Gwynedd - I moved from Machen to the Rhondda and (since my parents didn't teach me) learned my Cymraeg mainly in England, but everything I read or am told says that bilingual children do better than those who speak only a foreign language imposed on their grandparents, for a whole host of reasons. But then, perhaps the population of Newport come from the Moon and do not share normal human experience!

 

[Space Girl]

With respect, what do you expect if you're living in Wales?

As English is the first language of Wales then I would expect that non Welsh speaking children can go to their local school and be taugh in English, and that those who are Welsh speakers can be taught in Welsh, it's how my school worked and it worked well.

 

[tarannau]

As English is the first language of Wales then I would expect that non Welsh speaking children can go to their local school and be taugh in English, and that those who are Welsh speakers can be taught in Welsh, it's how my school worked and it worked well.

Wouldn't they learn both there to be fair? It doesn't really matter which primary language they learn in my book - children can make the most remarkable adaptations when young. The little 4 year old next door to my folks is tri-lingual in German, English and French, switching between all three flawlessly and without effort.

Secondary school's different mind, but I wouldn't be unduly concerned if my children learnt Welsh as their primary language at junior school, as long as they weren't prohibited from speaking English. You've got home time to teach them a decent language after all...

 

[Buds]

What chip is that then?

This one

Perhaps it goes back to the days when their masters were telling the simple folk of Gwent that they were English, and hotly denying anyone had ever spoken our language there.

Do you work in a 'Welsh medium school'? If not, what exactly are you comparing with what, and on what basis? I'm a fairly experienced teacher, but I wouldn't consider myself competent to lay down the law about schools - Catholic or Muslim ones, say - that I had no experience of.

No I don't work in a Welsh medium school (no need for inverted commas) but I travel to lots of different schools in the area, including Catholic schools, so I have a fair idea of what is happening in the county with regards to education.

I'm comparing exam results that are published every year and also personal experience, friends who have been to Welsh medium schools who have excelled at speaking Welsh but have struggled in other areas.

I have never lived in Dyfed or Gwynedd - I moved from Machen to the Rhondda and (since my parents didn't teach me) learned my Cymraeg mainly in England, but everything I read or am told says that bilingual children do better than those who speak only a foreign language imposed on their grandparents, for a whole host of reasons.

I don't understand what you're getting at here, whose grandparents have had a foreign language imposed on them?

But then, perhaps the population of Newport come from the Moon and do not share normal human experience!

This may well be true but not being from Newport myself I wouldn't know.

 

[Gromit]

I don't understand what you're getting at here, whose grandparents have had a foreign language imposed on them? .

Read about how the Welsh Knot (or not) was one of the methods used to subjugate the welsh into speaking English.

 

[Space Girl]

Wouldn't they learn both there to be fair? It doesn't really matter which primary language they learn in my book - children can make the most remarkable adaptations when young. The little 4 year old next door to my folks is tri-lingual in German, English and French, switching between all three flawlessly and without effort.

Secondary school's different mind, but I wouldn't be unduly concerned if my children learnt Welsh as their primary language at junior school, as long as they weren't prohibited from speaking English. You've got home time to teach them a decent language after all...

Yes, they should learn both, if you live in Wales you should be taught Welsh, this is not my issue, my issue is that if you do not speak Welsh you should not have to travel miles to be able to go to a school that can teach you in the language you understand, this does not relate to primary schools as young kids very easily pick up new languages but secondary school kids are a different thing altogether.

 

[editor]

Read about how the Welsh Knot (or not) was one of the methods used to subjugate the welsh into speaking English.

Interesting article that.

So my grandad learned English at school. And he learned it in the wider community too, where road signs and town names were written in English, and only in English, even where the roadusers following the signs spoke Welsh. And if he had official business to attend to, he had no choice but to do it in English, as official forms were available only in English. And should he fall foul of the law, he’d better find an English-speaking lawyer, because a Welsh speaker in Welsh-speaking Wales would still be tried in English

 

[lewislewis]

I have a GCSE in Welsh and can barely speak a word of the language. But then I live in an almost exclusively English speaking area of Wales so there's not much call for it really.



I can't speak for the rest of the country but this isn't the case in Gwent. Welsh medium schools are some way short of the standard of English medium schools at both Primary and Secondary levels.

Really? The demand for Welsh language schools is currently higher than English medium schools. I think Welsh-medium education should be expanded to meet this growing demand.

 

[brianx]

Thanks for everyone's comments. We were overrun with welsh-speakers yesterday as Gruff Rhys was in town and they were a glamorous bunch. I think that there is some "you have to admit that I'm decidedly more welsh tha yo" snobbery with some welsh-speakers.
I think that I would like to start an evening class this autumn but it's not an easy language to learn I think.

 

[Ben Bore]

Thanks for everyone's comments. We were overrun with welsh-speakers yesterday as Gruff Rhys was in town and they were a glamorous bunch. I think that there is some "you have to admit that I'm decidedly more welsh tha yo" snobbery with some welsh-speakers.
I think that I would like to start an evening class this autumn but it's not an easy language to learn I think.

Once you get over your perceived snobbery thing biranx, I'm sure you'll find that Welsh speakers are just normal human beings. If you decide to take up classes, and then you're looking for places to use your newly acquired Welsh socially, then Cymraeg Casnewydd meet up once a month in the Wetherspoons on Commercial St and I also maintain a little site called Dysgwyr De Ddwyrain which gathers info on classes, events in the south east region and also handy on-line resources for Welsh learners.

Hope I didn't offend anyone in Newport on Monday by speaking Welsh at the Gruff Rhys gig, or tonight either when I'm in Newport County's clubhouse before the match with Wrecsam.


I don't know how many Polish people now live and work in Newport, but during last census (I know, that's 6 years ago now)

• 3.8 % of Newport's population was born outside the UK [source]
• 10 % of Newport's population could speak Welsh [source] (doesn't state fluency)
• 5 % of Newport's population from ethnic backgrounds other than White** [source]

• At the moment, only 50% of kids who attend Welsh medium nursery (Cylch Meithrin) go on to Welsh medium primary school. This could be down to the fact that parents don't want to see their child having to travel long distances to the only Welsh medium primary school in the east of the city.
• There are currently 360 pupils at Ysgol Gynradd Cymraeg Casnewydd.
• 276 (30% of) pupils at Ysgol Gyfun Gwynllyw (Welsh Comp in Torfaen) live in Newport.

[source]

**Not that a persons ethnicity prevents them from speaking a language, but I doubt that there are many people from a White ethnic background that speak Hindi or Urdu. As this 5% consists of many different ethnic groups, they are likely to be speakers of many different languages. Just thought it might clear up the idea that more speak Urdu than speak Welsh.

 

[rhys gethin]

BB - My 13% came from an official council publication of two years ago, which was on the web. Can't find it now, but people from Newport agreed that was published. Presumably based on a post-census survey.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Prosiect unigryw rhwng cerddorion o Balesteina a Chymru


CERDDORIAETH HEB FFINIAU




Y daith gwybodaeth amgen



Nos Lun, Mawrth y 12ed yng Nghanolfan THE GATE, stryd Keppoch, oddi ar City Road, Y Rath, Caerdydd



Drysau'n agor am 8.00



Ticedi'n £4 (gostyngiadau ££)



Am wybodaeth bellach, cysyllter a

Adam Johannes
[email protected]



Bydd Tareq Rantisi a Mohamed Najem o Fethlehem yn ymuno a Gwilym Morus a Luke Evans o Fangor.



Cymysgedd o gerddoriaeth draddodiadol o Balesteina gyda cherddoriaeth draddodiaol o Gymru - canu penillion - mewn cyd-destun cyfoes



Yn 2005, aeth Gwilym Morus, y cerddor o fri, ar daith i Fethlehem ble cyfansoddodd ddwy gan gyda cherddorion Palesteinaidd. Arweiniodd hyn at ryddhau cryno ddisg, O Fethlhehem i Fangor. Ar ol rhaglen ddogfen ar S4C ynghyd a sylw gan nifer o DJs rhyngwladol, mae'r prosiect yn ymweld a Chaerdydd gyda gig yn fyw fydd yn cynnwys caneuon wedi eu cyfansoddi ar y cyd yn ystod y flwyddyn aeth heibio.

 

[irishshapes]

having studied Gaelic at home for all of school, compulsary till your fainl year, therefore most people must do it for 12ish years, i sometimes wish i was still fluent!
fucked now, though would have prefered to speak french or spanish fluent now though, would be far more productive!

it has been mentioned above about some of the welsh speakers who insist on speaking welsh in front of non welsh speakers, i have pulled a couple on it before and they insist that it is preferable to speaking in english, and nothing against me! they having only changed from english when i arrived in the room (generaly a pub)
quite good fun when i proceed to communicate with my irish friends in gealic! they are far from happy, and more than likely to try and speak in english now!
in fact the look on their faces is a picture! most welsh speakers i have met like this are just stuck up cunts, but i am not tarnishing all welsh like this

 

[Brockway]

Why should Welsh-speakers stop speaking Cymraig just because there are English speakers in the room? If Welsh is their first language it is the natural thing to do surely. It doesn't make them snobby cunts.

 

[llantwit]

... it has been mentioned above about some of the welsh speakers who insist on speaking welsh in front of non welsh speakers, i have pulled a couple on it before and they insist that it is preferable to speaking in english, and nothing against me! they having only changed from english when i arrived in the room (generaly a pub)
quite good fun when i proceed to communicate with my irish friends in gealic! they are far from happy, and more than likely to try and speak in english now!
in fact the look on their faces is a picture! most welsh speakers i have met like this are just stuck up cunts, but i am not tarnishing all welsh like this

You gonna bandy around setreotypes like the Welsh switching languages when an outsider comes in the pub you better apply this flameproof coating, my friend.