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Do you support the NYE underground strike?

Do you support the NYE underground strike?

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Isambard said:
Bob Crowe might com across that way to you on TV (dunno myself, never seen him on TV) but WTF does that have to do with the REASONS for the strike?
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Spot on. Gabi is responding to what he chooses to see on TV or in the Substandard ...
 
gabi said:
I already did... :confused: The man's a narcissist, pure and simple.
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So why would a 'narcissist' call an unnecessary strike in the name of public safety?

You haven't really thought this one through, have you?
 
editor said:
Be delighted to answer once you've answered my questions with proper answers.
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I think what I said earlier was pretty definitive of my views - I believe that Mr Crow can't bear to be out of the media spotlight. He's been out of the picture for a little, and is now flexing his muscles again.

Unfortunately for him, he's badly misjudged this one and (outside of u75) has lost what little sympathy Londoners still had for his organisation.

Do you support the strike on NYE?
 
Did you read Oxpecker's posts on the other thread about this topic? butch has linked to them above - can't be bothered to do it again.

By putting the proposed strike down entirely to Bob Crow, you're implying that the LU workers had no say in the matter or worse, that they're being led by the nose. Which is it?
 
butchersapron said:
a) The city? By this you mean TFL and Livingstone i take it. Then you're wrong - this will upset and embarrass them enourmously. They'll be exposed as unable to take care of transport on possibly the biggest night of the year.
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I don't think that it is anywhere near as upsetting for the Ken or TfL as the RMT hoped, indeed if it was then they would have folded.


butchersapron said:
b) What evidence do you have for your claim that tube users blame the RMT for any dispute and in particular this threatened one. And what relavance does that have to a tactic designed to put pressure on the TFL and livingstone anyway. (Are all users male as well btw?)
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Well I've listened to at least three phone-ins on the subject now where the general view of Jo public appears to be that the Tube drives are over paid and lazy; I think it is a dumb play to play into the hands of those views and failing to play to the RMT's strengths.

(And don't be dense or perhaps you want me to refer to huwomans as well as humans?)

butchersapron said:
C) You don't actually know what this stike is about do you? It management that have 'reneged' - this post might help you get a fuller picture of the issues.
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I see that management, as I said in my post, have moved the goal posts. In other words producing a reduction in per man hours without increasing that number of men and therefore implicitly reducing staffing levels which was not as I understand it written into the deal but is back sliding on the spirit in which it was written. How I haven't seen the deal so I don't know if they have out and out reneged on a deal but I think there would be a lot more shouting about it rather than the raising of safety issues and other things peripheral to this debate IF it was about a written contract but very central to it if we are looked at the whole picture. The RMT's shift to the whole picture and a return to its strengths would tend to indicate to me at least that the current issue is not a hard coded breach of contract but rather not in the spirit of the agreement.


On another issue please can you read the VB manual on VB code paying particular attention the the way to link posts and threads using [post=post number] some text [/post] and [thread=thread number] some text [/thread] as it make it easier to browse the links with in VB. Cheers.
 
dervish said:
The staff agreed to this last year, thats why there wasn't a strike. They haven't fullfilled their part of the bargain they struck last year yet and now threatening to strike again.
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It's management who aren't keeping their end of the bargain up, trying to move staff around without increasing numbers so that the effect (with the 35 hour week) is that stations will have less staff, be less safe etc.

Given that we've very recently seen the horrific consequences of a disaster on the underground, the more staff at stations the better.

As, contrary to what some on this thread will have you believe, it is the Tube staff who decide whether to strike (not Bob Crow making unilateral decisions on their behalf) and I'd trust them to know more about the ins and outs of safety on the LU more than anyone, if they want to vote by a majority of 5-1 in favour of strike action then that should be respected.

As far as the choice of day is concerned, Oxpecker explained on the other thread all the factors taken into consideration when picking a date and tbh certain sections of the press and right wingers in general would criticise whatever the date selected.

When it comes down to it, I'll support the decisions of the people who have far more of an idea about how the Underground should be run for the safety of the staff and passengers than anyone. The staff. They're the ones whose necks are on the line and will be expected to respond first to any emergency.
 
Kameron said:
I don't think that it is anywhere near as upsetting for the Ken or TfL as the RMT hoped, indeed if it was then they would have folded.
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Well you're wrong - transport is the centrepice of Livingstones agenda, as he has repeated time after time. Being exposed as incompotent when he was expecting plaudits is going to hurt him -from anumber of directions. You've not told me or anyone else [/i]why[/i] you think what you do.


Well I've listened to at least three phone-ins on the subject now where the general view of Jo public appears to be that the Tube drives are over paid and lazy; I think it is a dumb play to play into the hands of those views and failing to play to the RMT's strengths.

(And don't be dense or perhaps you want me to refer to huwomans as well as humans?)
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Are, those radio phone ins. Those well known objective guages of what millions of people are thinking. Such scientific rigour i cannot hope to compete with.

Um...you said 'his' not humans.

I see that management, as I said in my post, have moved the goal posts. In other words producing a reduction in per man hours without increasing that number of men and therefore implicitly reducing staffing levels which was not as I understand it written into the deal but is back sliding on the spirit in which it was written. How I haven't seen the deal so I don't know if they have out and out reneged on a deal but I think there would be a lot more shouting about it rather than the raising of safety issues and other things peripheral to this debate IF it was about a written contract but very central to it if we are looked at the whole picture. The RMT's shift to the whole picture and a return to its strengths would tend to indicate to me at least that the current issue is not a hard coded breach of contract but rather not in the spirit of the agreement.
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So you now agree that the RMT have not 'reneged' as per your original claim?


[/QUOTE]On another issue please can you read the VB manual on VB code paying particular attention the the way to link posts and threads using [post=post number] some text [/post] and [thread=thread number] some text [/thread] as it make it easier to browse the links with in VB. Cheers.[/QUOTE]


I'll do that immediately. I appreciate that it's of massive concern over this period.
 
William of Walworth said:
In publicity terms, it's him against the overwhelming weight of the Substandard propoganda machine innit? But the other thread goes into the reaons, in some detail, why NYE was picked, and I'm convinced ...

It's also still possible that the threat might pay off with a late settlement -- don't assume it won't.
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I agree that it is truly amazing that he has achieved as much as he has in the face of complete disbelieve from his opponents not least the Even Substandard. I too read the thread and still believe it to be a PR disaster for the RMT if it ends, as seems likely, without settlement.
 
butchersapron said:
Are, those radio phone ins. Those well known objective guages of what millions of people are thinking. Such scientific rigour i cannot hope to compete with.
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They are full of opinionated people who get up and make a lot of noise and on the basis of the number of people prepared to go to the effort to do this either speaks of an orchestrated campaign (which may be a little DrJazz-esque) or there are a lot of vocal if inarticulate people prepared to make a great deal of noise on the subject. Unscientific though this may be and while I'd love to see a MORI on the subject I don't think that these things tend to attack massive silent majorities in their favour, either the support is vocal or it isn't there which isn't to say you need it to win.

butchersapron said:
So you now agree that the RMT have not 'reneged' as per your original claim?
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Not in the strict contractual sense I don't, not in anyway that a court of law would find amusing or that is where this debate would be taking place. If you can't get it to the court room then it is just pushing the goal posts around and while you might think that is dishonourable on TfL's part and damages their credibility any alchemical advantage thus gained has been lost as I see it in a MacArthurian style advance.

butchersapron said:
I'll do that immediately. I appreciate that it's of massive concern over this period.
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I realise that your time is terribly valuable flaming away at people who by and large agree with the general tenants of your argument if not some of the minutiae but there are ways to make your links more readable to more people and you obviously didn't know how to do it.
 
I think that there is a lot of water between supporting the aims and thinking that this particular strike is the best way to go about getting them.

butchersapron said:
What are you on about? The link works as given doesn't it?
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The link only works if you are logged in through the same address you are, because Urban75 is faced through several addresses and the cookies are non-transferable if you link in a different address space (in this case the difference between www.urban75.net & urban75.net) then people clicking your link from the wrong one get a login prompt, if you use the post and thread tags not only does it work for you and people using the same address space but everyone else as well as well as getting updated correctly if it makes it to the archive.
 
butchersapron said:
Ah, logging in what a nightmare.

here's the thread:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=144854

It's post #66.
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[post=3984408]This post[/post]
[thread=144854]This thread[/thread]

I hope that these real life example help.

There are real reasons why I don't want to be logged into Urban75 through multiple different interfaces to do with clearing the cookies properly; it is this that means that people are left logged in in Internet cafes and the like when they have pressed the log out button -- just as an example of why it is bad.
 
Kameron said:
[post=3984408]This post[/post]
[thread=144854]This thread[/thread]

I hope that these real life example help.

There are real reasons why I don't want to be logged into Urban75 through multiple different interfaces to do with clearing the cookies properly; it is this that means that people are left logged in in Internet cafes and the like when they have pressed the log out button -- just as an example of why it is bad.
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Well here's a tip for you Cameron - explain in the first instance, as you have just belatedly done above, why this is so, rather then high-handedly request that someone reads a technical manual they'll more than likely not understand. You'll get better results that way.
 
I've just been to the shops and the strikers were outside so I bought them a pack of donuts . It's not much but they seemed to appreciate it :D
 
Strikers are bastards who use their position that allows them to disrupt other people's lives to get better conditions that other workers don't have.
According to BBC they already like the French have 35 hours week and obviously they are not prepared even to work hard those 35 hours. No wonder the ticket prices go over the roof.
 
Serguei said:
Strikers are bastards who use their position that allows them to disrupt other people's lives to get better conditions that other workers don't have.
According to BBC they already like the French have 35 hours week and obviously they are not prepared even to work hard those 35 hours. No wonder the ticket prices go over the roof.
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No, they are striking to get a 35 hour week like other underground workers. Also they are fighting a reduction in front line staff and forced displacement.
 
gabi said:
It's been too long since we were graced with Bob Crow's wideboy, minglish face on BBC London News, so hence the strike. It is not in any way grounded in reality. I can't believe anyone is left in this city with any sympathy for these greedy blackmailing pricks.
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So , you seriously think that grown men & women are striking, & giving up wages as a result, in order that Bob Crow can get his face on telly ?? :confused:
 
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