Do you believe that there is "girls food" and "boys food"?

[coccinelle]

I was facepalming when I read the words 'PC' and 'stereotypes'

*jean luc cannot express my dismay*

Why?

 

[DotCommunist]

You have missed the essential point of equality, and waffled about 'everyone is supposed to believe we're all exactly the same'. NO, equality does not mean treating everybody in exactly the same way for fucks sake how pernicious has this lie become?

 

[coccinelle]

You have missed the essential point of equality, and waffled about 'everyone is supposed to believe we're all exactly the same'. NO, equality does not mean treating everybody in exactly the same way for fucks sake how pernicious has this lie become?

You still haven't made a point other than making patronising boy noises. Why didn't you use the 'rolleyes' smiley as well?

 

[Gromit]

You have missed the essential point of equality, and waffled about 'everyone is supposed to believe we're all exactly the same'. NO, equality does not mean treating everybody in exactly the same way for fucks sake how pernicious has this lie become?

Equality? Equal "Opportunity".

The key bit is opportunity. Giving people the same breaks to prove their worth (or unworth if they ain't worthy).

We aren't all the same. Not even all white, middle class males are all the same. Men and women are different, FACT! But that doesn't mean both don't deserve equal opportunities.

 

[Boczkowski]

'my 2 pence' since 1979

it is a load of old bollocks

 

[becki1701]

But.....I AM the same as a black man of chinese origin......right? Cos that's what I've been telling everyone....

....I'm gnna look REALLY stupid now

 

[coccinelle]

it is a load of old bollocks

Another boy-noise.

 

[DotCommunist]

Equality? Equal "Opportunity".

The key bit is opportunity. Giving people the same breaks to prove their worth (or unworth if they ain't worthy).

We aren't all the same. Not even all white, middle class males are all the same. Men and women are different, FACT! But that doesn't mean both don't deserve equal opportunities.

equal opportunity, yes. But sometimes having it equal means recognizing inherent social inequalities and thus giving a greater level of opportunity to those groups/people/social stratas who aren't getting a fair shake because of the way our society is. Don't come waving rags to riches succsess stories at me again marius because the figures do not reflect your glorious meritocracy idea

 

[coccinelle]

equal opportunity, yes. But sometimes having it equal means recognizing inherent social inequalities and thus giving a greater level of opportunity to those groups/people/social stratas who aren't getting a fair shake because of the way our society is. Don't come waving rags to riches succsess stories at me again marius because the figures do not reflect your glorious meritocracy idea

You're off the point.

 

[Boczkowski]

Another boy-noise.

beetle!

 

[DotCommunist]

You still haven't made a point other than making patronising boy noises. Why didn't you use the 'rolleyes' smiley as well?

You can cry 'boy' all you like, it does nothing but make you look supercilious.

you still haven't made a distinction between equality and treating everyone exactly the same.

 

[DotCommunist]

You're off the point.

the point you raised by getting all 'I know its not PC but...'

remove head from rear and look at society and stereotypes and the language of political discourse.

 

[coccinelle]

You can cry 'boy' all you like, it does nothing but make you look supercilious.

I was the one who made a considered point. You were the one who tried to dismiss it without giving any reasoning.

 

[QueenOfGoths]

I'm going to fly in the face of (seemingly) everyone because I do think that there does tend to be a difference between men's food/eating habits and those of women.

There has been a lot of scoffing (!) at male/female food stereotypes but I think stereotypes have a basis in reality. After all, cultural stereotypes usually arise from anecdotal consensus and, just because we live in a PC world where we are supposed to believe that everyone is exactly the same as everyone else, I don't think we should dismiss what we come to understand from our own personal experience,

In my experience, men tend to prefer the occasional big meal whereas women tend to pick or 'graze' during the day. Men (unless they are in poncey boy chef mode) tend to be very conservative in their food preserences (meat and two veg?) whereas women tend to experiment with new foods they have found or they have had recommended from other women. Men tend to prefer red meat whereas women tend to prefer fowl and seafood.

There's a big point in the barbecue stereotype because, whenever you have an outdoor fire, it's invariably men who surge forward with all the Ray Mears knowledge. The big point is that, recently, it was found (http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/n...finds-acrylamide-link-to-cancer-in-women.html) that eating cooked/burned food is more dangerous for women than men.

It's easy to laugh at the hunter/gatherer stereotype where men are seen as hunters of red meat and women are seen as gatherers of nuts, roots, berries, seafood etc but this is a model that probably has existed in almost all cultures for hundreds of thousands of years and which may have only been overwritten by our new social norms a matter of a few hundred years ago. Maybe after all that time, there are cultural differences written into our genes.

I just thought I would say that....

The 'hunter/gatherer' idea may well be true but all the food would have been shared between the sexes not men eating one and women the other.

Personally I have found no difference in eating habits between the sexes other than in terms of taste.

 

[DotCommunist]

I was the one who made a considered point. You were the one who tried to dismiss it without giving any reasoning.

I think you confuse paragraph length with actual substance. You drew on a load of hoary bullshit to make a spurios point about gender differences regarding food. Dressed up with the 'I know its not PC' (i.e my point is bollocks but I'll play the opressed traditionalist) it amounts to limiting, defeatist and thoroughly backwards ideas about human interaction.

 

[coccinelle]

I think you confuse paragraph length with actual substance. You drew on a load of hoary bullshit to make a spurios point about gender differences regarding food. Dressed up with the 'I know its not PC' (i.e my point is bollocks but I'll play the opressed traditionalist) it amounts to limiting, defeatist and thoroughly backwards ideas about human interaction.

You still haven't made a considered point other than to continue trying to patronise. You make sweeping generalisations but little else. My argument is based on my personal observations/experience. At least QueenofGoths made a short comment from her own experience and that is worth a million of what you are writing.

 

[DotCommunist]

You still haven't made a considered point other than to continue trying to patronise. You make sweeping generalisations but little else. My argument is based on my personal observations/experience. At least QueenofGoths made a short comment from her own experience and that is worth a million of what you are writing.

oh ok, personal experience counts for far more than empirical evidence. Silly me, I should be endorsing postbag politics.

You keep on with the 'considered point' mantra. Make one that isn't a bag of reactinary thinking with a dash of 'I'm going against the grain by being un-PC'. Then perhaps I'll stop patronising, not that I was aware of doing so. 'boy noises' eh? who is patronising who here 'sweetie'?

 

[fractionMan]

I'm going to fly in the face of (seemingly) everyone because I do think that there does tend to be a difference between men's food/eating habits and those of women.

There has been a lot of scoffing (!) at male/female food stereotypes but I think stereotypes have a basis in reality. After all, cultural stereotypes usually arise from anecdotal consensus and, just because we live in a PC world where we are supposed to believe that everyone is exactly the same as everyone else, I don't think we should dismiss what we come to understand from our own personal experience,

In my experience, men tend to prefer the occasional big meal whereas women tend to pick or 'graze' during the day. Men (unless they are in poncey boy chef mode) tend to be very conservative in their food preserences (meat and two veg?) whereas women tend to experiment with new foods they have found or they have had recommended from other women. Men tend to prefer red meat whereas women tend to prefer fowl and seafood.

There's a big point in the barbecue stereotype because, whenever you have an outdoor fire, it's invariably men who surge forward with all the Ray Mears knowledge. The big point is that, recently, it was found (http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/n...finds-acrylamide-link-to-cancer-in-women.html) that eating cooked/burned food is more dangerous for women than men.

It's easy to laugh at the hunter/gatherer stereotype where men are seen as hunters of red meat and women are seen as gatherers of nuts, roots, berries, seafood etc but this is a model that probably has existed in almost all cultures for hundreds of thousands of years and which may have only been overwritten by our new social norms a matter of a few hundred years ago. Maybe after all that time, there are cultural differences written into our genes.

I just thought I would say that....

lol.

you're serious too

 

[gracious]

empirical evidence (?)

i used to work in a pub that sold pizzas, of 8 different pizzas on the menu, the order

1* american hot (peperoni + jalapenos)
1* gowletini (prosciutto, goats cheese, rocket, pine nuts)

would come up a hell of a lot. 90 times out of 100 it would be a couple with the boy having the american hot and the girl having the gowletini... i kid you not, women actually think that if you put rocket on top of a pizza it makes it less calorific

(i'm female by the way, and also dont like american hots)

 

[electrogirl]

i'd much much rather have a hot one. i love the hot.

 

[gracious]

ive just realised why this thread has got angry... in the poll you put "women SHOULD eat different food" when maybe you probably just meant "women choose to eat different food" ?

 

[electrogirl]

ive just realised why this thread has got angry... in the poll you put "women SHOULD eat different food" when maybe you probably just meant "women choose to eat different food" ?

peopel only just got angry, i thought everyone was just having a laugh up until then.

 

[DotCommunist]

i used to work in a pub that sold pizzas, of 8 different pizzas on the menu, the order

1* american hot (peperoni + jalapenos)
1* gowletini (prosciutto, goats cheese, rocket, pine nuts)

would come up a hell of a lot. 90 times out of 100 it would be a couple with the boy having the american hot and the girl having the gowletini... i kid you not, women actually think that if you put rocket on top of a pizza it makes it less calorific

(i'm female by the way, and also dont like american hots)

someone hasn't learned the difference between personal, anecdotal experience and empirical evidence.

When I worked serving food at the Sole n 'Eel women ordered steak more than men. FACT

but not really FACT just the subjective experience of one chef in a pub amongst thousands of varied pubs

 

[cliche guevara]

ive just realised why this thread has got angry... in the poll you put "women SHOULD eat different food" when maybe you probably just meant "women choose to eat different food" ?

I know exactly what I meant. Which was to make a call out thread. i don't really care about the question.

 

[coccinelle]

I got angry because I was making a point. People may have disagreed with it and I would be happy to have a discussion. But I am not happy just to have someone try to patronise with throwaway remarks.

 

[strung out]

i'd much much rather have a hot one. i love the hot.

oh baby

 

[QueenOfGoths]

I got angry because I was making a point. People may have disagreed with it and I would be happy to have a discussion. But I am not happy just to have someone try to patronise with throwaway remarks.

I don't get the feeling that DotC was patronising or using throwaway remarks.

He made a comment, then after being asked, he elucidated what he meant.

He was also making the point that a lot of what you said - and indeed what I and others have said - is personal experience rather than empirical evidence. Of course personal experience is interesting and informs how we feel but it is not hard evidence and, tbh, you did appear, to me, to be trying to use your own experience as evidence, rather than just as experience, in your post.

 

[coccinelle]

I don't get the feeling that DotC was patronising or using throwaway remarks.

He made a comment, then after being asked, he elucidated what he meant.

He was also making the point that a lot of what you said - and indeed what I and others have said - is personal experience rather than empirical evidence. Of course personal experience is interesting and informs how we feel but it is not hard evidence and, tbh, you did appear, to me, to be trying to use your own experience as evidence, rather than just as experience, in your post.

Here is his comment

"I was facepalming when I read the words 'PC' and 'stereotypes'

*jean luc cannot express my dismay*


and that to me reads like he wants to convey that he thought I was talking utter tripe but he offered nothing in return. So I tried to get him to make a point and the only point he seems to make (eventually) is that I offer no empirical evidence, even though I was quite open in that I said it was all from my (anecdotal) experience; and, anyway, I do not believe that empirical evidence is the only basis on which you can make an argument: I believe that reasonable arguments can be made from personal experience

 

[DotCommunist]

Here is his comment

"I was facepalming when I read the words 'PC' and 'stereotypes'

*jean luc cannot express my dismay*


and that to me reads like he wants to convey that he thought I was talking utter tripe but he offered nothing in return. So I tried to get him to make a point and the only point he seems to make (eventually) is that I offer no empirical evidence, even though I was quite open in that I said it was all from my (anecdotal) experience; and, anyway, I do not believe that empirical evidence is the only basis on which you can make an argument: I believe that reasonable arguments can be made from personal experience

It's like you are posting from Mars. You coached your opinion in the hoary cloak of received wisdom and personal experience. I take exception to that, and to the idea that you were going against the grain by expressing 'Un-PC' ideas. Forgive me if I find that sort of bluster and nonsense offensive

 

[coccinelle]

It's like you are posting from Mars. You coached your opinion in the hoary cloak of received wisdom and personal experience. I take exception to that, and to the idea that you were going against the grain by expressing 'Un-PC' ideas. Forgive me if I find that sort of bluster and nonsense offensive

Why do you take exception to it?

I read the thread yesterday and I saw it was just jokey but it started me thinking about my own experience and so I tried to put in writing, and to rationalise, some things I had understood from what I had seen over the years. I wasn't digging at anyone (unlike you) and I don't read what I wrote as 'offensive' in any way.