Do tortured souls make better artists?

[BlackSpecs]

if thats your attitude can you explain what the point is of doing any art at all?

'i never understood people that produce >insert type of work here< ... what's the point ?!'

o.k. , since i talked about flowers :

This:

is a nice picture of some flowers ........"what's the point?!"

This:

is a picture by a dude who wasn't sure that day , whether to stand in a field and paint nature/flowers or to cut his own ear off !!!! IMO it has more energy and i won't get bored with it after a short while ! ( and he lived in Brixton for a while )

 

[bluestreak]

yep. next.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

( and he lived in Brixton for a while )

Lived in Brixton. Seriously? I never knew that. Where did he go to drink his absinthe?

 

[BlackSpecs]

Lived in Brixton. Seriously? I never knew that. Where did he go to drink his absinthe?

Don't know but he walked every day to Covent Garden where he worked .It was in the summer of 1873 and he was a lodger on Hackford Road apparently!

 

[maya]

You have to make a wee distinction IMO, between "experiencing, and having experienced, extreme states of pain/depression/turmoil...etc."-
which is linked with heightened sensibility/perception, or results in traces of it, and the act of creating [which integrates these visions arising from the heightened awareness] in itself, which often cannot be acted out if the state of chaos/depression/pain is severe and serious enough...

Sometimes you have to regain partial balance before any sort of creative work is possible- Compare it to a heroinist, he can't do any creative work on junk whatsoever, because the extreme state of numbness narrows not only his mind, but also his body... (completely random example, not a personal one BTW)
From my own experience with depression/anxiety/complete suicidal mindfuck chaos, I had periods SO dark and down I wasn't able to talk, eat, move or get out of bed at all, do anything at all... Creative work was impossible, I had to get some sort of basic, cognitive functions to return before being able to distill my experiences and moods into art in ANY form...

So, to sum it up, yes having that DARKNESS EXPERIENCE make you create brilliant art [sometimes], and it make you feel stronger and deeper, see further and more intensely than anything experienced in a "normal" state of mind-
But in my opinion, if the feelings are too overwhelming and serious, it will stifle you and make work difficult, you need to have some kind of autopilot ability (and in total depression, you lose that, 'cause you have no will left to do anything) to be able to merge art with experience...

 

[Appassionata]

Expression of pain, expression of grief, madness etc?

I find I am at my most creative when things are shit, and I feel shit.

Its a good outlet.

What about you?

Despite my love of drama, I don't think I would ever have even thought of writing a play, were it not for my recent diagnosis of depression and anxiety and its debilitating consequences. But it's a way for me to get all the fears (and hopes) out into the open. I wouldn't describe myself as "artistic" because of this though... it feels more like writing a diary.

 

[Meltingpot]

I'm not an authority on art, but there are examples both ways; Van Gogh was a tortured soul, Rubens seems not to have been yet both were excellent artists.

 

[pengaleng]

is a picture by a dude who wasn't sure that day , whether to stand in a field and paint nature/flowers or to cut his own ear off !!!! IMO it has more energy and i won't get bored with it after a short while ! ( and he lived in Brixton for a while )

so what's the point?

 

[pengaleng]

oh, and using a picture of flowers to demonstrate 'art that has no point' is a bit retarded when also arguing in more or less the same sentence that van gough's work totally has more significance, because he's never painted any 'no point pretty pictures of flowers' has he, oh no. ffs.

 

[BlackSpecs]

......, because he's never painted any 'no point pretty pictures of flowers' has he, oh no. ffs.

.....because his way of painting them gave them a point !!!! God , you are angry aren't you?! Is it because you paint flowers or something ?

i show you my flower drawing if you show me yours ! :

 

[pengaleng]

 

[BlackSpecs]

That's very nice tb ! so tell me , did you train as a graphic-designer then ?!
maybe thats why you react to this discussion so strongly......as they say : all graphic designers want to be great artists but only great artists are great graphic-designers!
(it's a serious question)

 

[pengaleng]

'he's a darkie, he's not a darkie, he's a darkie...'

 

[pengaleng]

That's very nice tb ! so tell me , did you train as a graphic-designer then ?!
maybe thats why you react to this discussion so strongly......as they say : all graphic designers want to be great artists but only great artists are great graphic-designers!
(it's a serious question)

youwhatnow?

where did that pikey little saying come from?

 

[BlackSpecs]

Camberwell-College of Arts ....

 

[Sweaty Betty]

youwhatnow?

where did that pikey little saying come from?

not me......

Anyway my boyf is a graphic designer and he wants to be pablo esquaber

 

[Stanley Edwards]

Camberwell-College of Arts ....

Nah, that was "those who can do - those who can't teach".

 

[pengaleng]

Camberwell-College of Arts ....

oh jesus christ not another one....

coincidentally, I have a friend who has just done a degree in some sort of graphic design type thing, I forget the name of it, purely out of interest through doing web design, but cant see past the whole regimented 'rules' to have any creativity, it's a shame because his heart is in the right place, just hasn't got the mind set to be spectacularly good at it. So in that respect I don't think anybody is able to 'train' you.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

I really like that. The little tears of pain splats at the bottom set it off right nice.


On the Graphic Design v Artist front; I've been lucky enough to work alongside some of the countries very best designers and illustrators, a good friend is a well respected Graphic Designer. I think it's one of those working within tighter parameters things again. Some people find it more creative, others find the freedom more creative. I think they are both equally strong forms of expression.

This thread has drifted a bit. Just as well, it was getting a bit to deep! May drag it down there again a bit later.

 

[BlackSpecs]

So i guess in the end it all boils down to the question : would Van Gogh have done web-design ?

 

[pengaleng]

nah he was a mentalist.

 

[Flavour]

so, we're all agreed tortured souls don't make better artists by virtue of their torturedness

'cos you know what it'd mean otherwise...

 

[pengaleng]

totally man

 

[Firky]

I wouldn't describe myself as "artistic" because of this though... it feels more like writing a diary.

Dear Diary:

Mood: Apathetic.

My life is spiralling downward. I couldn't get enough money to go to the Blood Red Romance and Suffocate me dry concert. It sucks 'cause they play some of my favorite songs like 'Stab My Heart Because I Love You' and 'Rip Apart My Soul' and of course, 'Stabby Rip Stab Stab'. And it doesn't help that I couldn't get my hair to do that flippy thingy. Like that guy from that band can do. Some days, you know...

My parents just don't get me, you know. They think I'm gay just because they saw me kiss a guy. Well, a couple guys. But I mean, it's the 2000s. Can't 2... or 4 dudes make-out with each other without being gay? I mean, chicks dig that kind of thing anyways. I don't know diary, sometimes I think you're the only one that gets me, you're my best friend...

 

[Flavour]

nice to see you back, sonderkommando

 

[pengaleng]

I got him reinstated

 

[Firky]

tp fixed it for me

 

[Flavour]

kewl

all's well that ends well then eh

 

[WouldBe]

tp fixed it for me

Don't let ninj play with it again.

 

[zenie]

Camberwell-College of Arts ....

hahahaha

I went there and I know a fair few people (lecturers and ex-students) who'd disagree that they EVER said that (What did you study??)

I work with GD's every day and a couple of them are fuckin talented man, like they're wasted doing illustration and design for print

so, we're all agreed tortured souls don't make better artists by virtue of their torturedness

Yes, but some artists make better artists BECAUSE they're tortured souls, because SO MUCH come from emotion and expression within.

I suppose I'm coming at this from a Fine Art perspective, not from Graphic Design or Illustration, so my views will differ.

.....because his way of painting them gave them a point !!!! God , you are angry aren't you?! Is it because you paint flowers or something ?

I suppose you have to ask what is content without concept....I think I posted about that somewhere else