andysays
Love and solidarity
The link I posted above includes info on the right to a safe place of work, and is worth reading for anyone with concerns
Do all big unions work just like management?
- Thread starter Orang Utan
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purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
I am the unite rep at work and they are shite. Whenever I have asked for help they never get back to me and now I don’t even bother to call the branch, I call ACAS instead if I need to find out something technical / legal.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
It's interesting reading different people's experience of their different reps, branches and unions.
For my part, it certainly seems to be that the members and branch are key to the experience of most workers. I'm with UNISON (they're the one of three unions in my workplace that rep staff in my dept.), and at the ground level I've definitely heard a lot of frustration with the national organisation. Lord knows I have my own gripes about them, not even politically but just in terms of how they could be more useful to members and better organised.
But, I think our branch is pretty decent. Probably not the best, but we helped bring a large section of cleaning and security staff in-house, we're currently rallying the troops to oppose a pay freeze, and I know reps who have worked very hard for individual cases and, to my eyes, are always working for the member, not the management.
So yeah, as others have said, to some extent it's up to members and branches to do their shit on the ground, and try and deal with the national level folks where and when they can.
<edit: all that said, if your local branch is shit too, totally get there's only so much an individual member or two can do, or drum up the fight to do>
For my part, it certainly seems to be that the members and branch are key to the experience of most workers. I'm with UNISON (they're the one of three unions in my workplace that rep staff in my dept.), and at the ground level I've definitely heard a lot of frustration with the national organisation. Lord knows I have my own gripes about them, not even politically but just in terms of how they could be more useful to members and better organised.
But, I think our branch is pretty decent. Probably not the best, but we helped bring a large section of cleaning and security staff in-house, we're currently rallying the troops to oppose a pay freeze, and I know reps who have worked very hard for individual cases and, to my eyes, are always working for the member, not the management.
So yeah, as others have said, to some extent it's up to members and branches to do their shit on the ground, and try and deal with the national level folks where and when they can.
<edit: all that said, if your local branch is shit too, totally get there's only so much an individual member or two can do, or drum up the fight to do>
This is my experience as well. If you’re in a relatively large geographical branch, it might be worth writing a letter to the branch secretary, explaining that you want help in setting up your own workplace branch and becoming its secretary. In my experience it is more difficult for Unite officials (lay or otherwise) to ignore written letters. You can get the postal address of your nearest branch office by logging in to your online Unite account.
If you already have a workplace branch, but it’s shit, then it might be worth trying to replace the branch secretary. This can be difficult but might be worth doing if the branch is becoming moribund.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I was a PCS rep for six years, dealing with 'head office' was always a nightmare.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Standing on the picket line, asking people why they were going in to work, the most common answer was that they couldn't afford to lose a day's pay.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
And their comrades could?
It's a very easy claim to make, and in a few cases may be true, but I've seen plenty it used by plenty of people with massive salaries while those earning a fraction have held firm.
It's a very easy claim to make, and in a few cases may be true, but I've seen plenty it used by plenty of people with massive salaries while those earning a fraction have held firm.
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I did this too about workplace bullying. Couldn't get hold of anyone in Unite. ACAS were very good and provided a sane and supportive voice at a very difficult time, I remember it clearly.
I've never worked anywhere with a decent union presence. In my last workplace, a couple of admin workers did join a union on my advice, they'd really been treated very badly. Where I am now, it's a small clinic and it runs on that NHS culture of working over your hours and self-sacrifice. I've thought about being a rep but tbh I feel I have enough on my plate emotionally and I remember my partner found it very stressful. I have been encouraging one of my workmates to go for it, he's roughly my age, a bit lefty, remembers when unions were stronger. My younger workmates often aren't in a union and can't see the point (even when they're working with vulnerable children and their job could go tits up).
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
Pretty much my experience. I don't think it's a case that younger people aren't interested in unionism and self organisation it's just that the concept is so utterly dead in most sectors. Certainly that's my personal experience of it. Actually when people become aware of it they do it very naturally without the need of big unions.
Also this might not be popular, but I do feel there's always a class/low paid/Uni Grad vs Non Qualified element there too. Fucking amount of small little comments, reminders, and patronising/dismissive comments we've come across from friends and other people over the years.
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Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Aye, the young members thing is an issue across the board, and something it feels like may be getting attention at this point.
Our current branch sec only just aged out of being a young member (u-27) a couple of weeks ago, and since our last AGM (March) we now have two Young Members officers who seem pretty active and keen to self-organise, which is encouraging at our branch level at least.
Definitely think a lot of it is down to unions to show how they can still be relevant, and in the time I've been active it's been incredibly frustrating to see how seemingly stuck in the 'old ways' many unions have been. Again, though, hopeful that things may be finally turning a corner in that respect.
Our current branch sec only just aged out of being a young member (u-27) a couple of weeks ago, and since our last AGM (March) we now have two Young Members officers who seem pretty active and keen to self-organise, which is encouraging at our branch level at least.
Definitely think a lot of it is down to unions to show how they can still be relevant, and in the time I've been active it's been incredibly frustrating to see how seemingly stuck in the 'old ways' many unions have been. Again, though, hopeful that things may be finally turning a corner in that respect.
Serge Forward
Felonious Manc
That has been my experience. Those who can least afford it have more often than not stayed solid. Those who cry poverty tend to be on better contracts and are more flush. That's not to say that the better off don't strike, they do! But from experience, 99.9% of those who claimed they were too poor to strike were actually just selfish, "I'm all right Jack" cunts.
josef1878 2.0
Well-Known Member
The clue is in the rest of my post you didn't quote. Industrial action ie organised is illegal without a positive ballot result. I got it from a very good union rep as you did ask.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Yes organised industrial action requires a ballot but a union advising its members that a workplace is not safe would not (necessarily) be organised industrial action.
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andysays
Love and solidarity
It might be worthy of its own thread, but here's an example of a big union not acting just like management (email received yesterday)
Consultative ballot - Local Authority Pay
During the coronavirus crisis it is local government workers who have been vital in supporting our young, elderly and vulnerable through this difficult time.
The offer of 2.75% (£1.83 a day for those on the bottom NJC spine point) fails to value or recognise the dedication and support you give to our communities’ day in day out.
The extra day leave represents a deliberate misreading of the joint union claim and will only cover a tiny handful of staff as most local authorities already offer more than this in their local contracts.
The Unite Local Authorities National Industrial Sector Committee (NISC) have therefore unanimously decided to recommend that you REJECT this offer so we can return to the employers and seek improvements that properly value your hard work and start to reverse the real terms pay cuts of the last 10 years.
Consultative ballot - Local Authority Pay
| Dear Unite member VOTE NOW - Have your say on Local Authority Pay 2020 The Local Authority Employers have made the following offer to all staff in England, Wales and Northern Ireland:
|
During the coronavirus crisis it is local government workers who have been vital in supporting our young, elderly and vulnerable through this difficult time.
The offer of 2.75% (£1.83 a day for those on the bottom NJC spine point) fails to value or recognise the dedication and support you give to our communities’ day in day out.
The extra day leave represents a deliberate misreading of the joint union claim and will only cover a tiny handful of staff as most local authorities already offer more than this in their local contracts.
The Unite Local Authorities National Industrial Sector Committee (NISC) have therefore unanimously decided to recommend that you REJECT this offer so we can return to the employers and seek improvements that properly value your hard work and start to reverse the real terms pay cuts of the last 10 years.
tedsplitter
Well-Known Member
This is a great rule and I wish I'd been in unions that had this!
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
I am pretty sure that is illegal!
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
I think this is a key post - because unions should not be perceived as some external body who meets with HR and needs to be phoned up for help (although there will be times when a full timer or a branch secretary/convenor would be brought in) but unions are about the workers coming together in the workplace and working together to represent the needs of that group, with the support of the Branch/region/national union, but not expecting someone else to come in and guess what the needs are.
It is critical to get a high level of membership in your workplace, so that the managers have to listen to you.
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
How do they know if you have voted in ballots? Surely they are secret?
josef1878 2.0
Well-Known Member
I've known local reps refer people to head office for representation. I understand and agree with that. I've only ever known this happen to scabs.
Ms T
Honey-coloured ramparts
I don’t believe that you can legally chuck someone out of a union.
I am seconded part-time to work for a small union and it’s bloody stressful. Especially when we are faced with hundreds of job cuts. Today I have back-to-back meetings pretty much all day. Members and reps regularly WhatsApp Me and call me at home. Next week I have a meeting at 9pm because it’s about the night shift.
Do I make a difference? Sometimes I feel like I’m working too closely with management but on the whole I think we do a decent job in difficult circumstances. We have a policy of no compulsory redundancies for example which means that my employer is quite good at redeployment and I spend a lot of my time making sure it happens. We were very effective during Covid and held numerous meetings with management and staff to ensure the workplace was as safe as possible. I personally ensured that vulnerable colleagues were sent home very early on.
We also quite recently managed to secure permanent contracts for members who had been working for years on zero hours contracts on low pay. That was a massive struggle, caused me many sleepless nights and tears but we were ultimately successful. Why? Because the chapel (that’s what we call our individual branches) was prepared to go on strike. As former freedom fighters in their home country, they understood the importance of solidarity. They now call me General Sister T!
I have also represented members who I am pretty sure were lying through their teeth. One of my most difficult And time-consuming cases was ultimately a personal dispute between two ex-lovers.
I have refused to continue representing someone once - because they had refused to accept a very reasonable compromise I negotiated. I don’t have endless amounts of time to spend on personal cases when hundreds of people are losing their jobs.
I am seconded part-time to work for a small union and it’s bloody stressful. Especially when we are faced with hundreds of job cuts. Today I have back-to-back meetings pretty much all day. Members and reps regularly WhatsApp Me and call me at home. Next week I have a meeting at 9pm because it’s about the night shift.
Do I make a difference? Sometimes I feel like I’m working too closely with management but on the whole I think we do a decent job in difficult circumstances. We have a policy of no compulsory redundancies for example which means that my employer is quite good at redeployment and I spend a lot of my time making sure it happens. We were very effective during Covid and held numerous meetings with management and staff to ensure the workplace was as safe as possible. I personally ensured that vulnerable colleagues were sent home very early on.
We also quite recently managed to secure permanent contracts for members who had been working for years on zero hours contracts on low pay. That was a massive struggle, caused me many sleepless nights and tears but we were ultimately successful. Why? Because the chapel (that’s what we call our individual branches) was prepared to go on strike. As former freedom fighters in their home country, they understood the importance of solidarity. They now call me General Sister T!
I have also represented members who I am pretty sure were lying through their teeth. One of my most difficult And time-consuming cases was ultimately a personal dispute between two ex-lovers.
I have refused to continue representing someone once - because they had refused to accept a very reasonable compromise I negotiated. I don’t have endless amounts of time to spend on personal cases when hundreds of people are losing their jobs.
Ms T
Honey-coloured ramparts
We had a member who joined, we saved his job, and then he left again saying he’d come back if he needed to. No.
Ms T
Honey-coloured ramparts
Indeed. I have a lot of members who said they “felt unsafe” coming to work recently. Didn’t mean it was or they could legally refuse a reasonable request. We have had no CV outbreaks at work.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
Where I work they've said they won't force people to stop working from home. For me I would be confident that the work environment will be reasonably safe. That cannot I think be said of taking public transport to work when numbers travelling increase. Your members may feel similar anxieties
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
I genuinely find this bewildering. If you are the union rep, then surely you and your members are "the union". I don't comprehend how you can refer to the union as "they".
And well done for using all the support out there for union reps in order to be able to represent and support your members.
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
I can’t work out if the second paragraph is a piss take or not. I’m sorry if I’m not a good enough rep for you. Barely anybody in work is in the union and those who are have little interest in doing anything; they are only in it in case they get into trouble. There are things I would like to argue for but I have no clout and there’s no appetite for it. I’ve never been a rep before and have had no support from Unite at all since I started. My calls are never once returned and when we had a period of big redundancies I met with a full time officer once and that was it. He offered all this help and then never returned my calls. Even when I asked for someone else to call back it never happened so I just had to do it on my own. So to me, they are ‘the union’ because they have done nothing to make me feel a part of them and I don’t think it’s for lack of me trying.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
In my experience this is a political/organisational and a technical question.
In my workplace we’ve had no CV either. But before we returned to work we conducted a joint risk assessment. This included travel to an from work (which resulted in agreement that workers who use the bus would not be safe to return). We also negotiated that all workers in the 3 vulnerable categories or looking after vulnerable groups were not safe to return. In both groups members are either working from home or on paid special leave.
In the remaining group every member was spoken to and asked if they wanted to come back. Those who didn’t (and I was shocked tbh how many were desperate to come back) or couldn’t because they were looking after kids have also been allowed to work from home, put on SPL or are working new shifts to suit them.
A similar approach has been put in place for each workplace. Management were unusually keen to adopt the right approach to be fair because reconfiguring offices and factories to make them Covid safe is expensive.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Aye, the recurring message from our members is they're more concerned about public transport than being in the office. For example, even if I walk to/from the station at both ends rather than bussing it, I've still got a 30-40m journey on what was in 'regular' times a packed train.
I know plenty of colleagues who travel in from further away, too.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Same here. The RA we did marked bus travel as ‘red’ and it was the number one concern of workers who don’t drive in. The other red areas were getting in and out, break areas, bogs and walkways. Reconfiguring the organisation of work areas was the easiest bit.
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