Do all Arabs hate the "West"?

[ZAMB]

I'd probably get more out of talking to my neighbour's cat and it would ceratinly be more pleasurably than listening to your crap. I will get back to you if and when you post something intelligent (which means I won't be holding my breath).

Your neighbour's cat is about your level mate. It never disagrees with you - or, if it did, it has no language skills to voice its opinion. I hope you two have a beautiful relationship, until he scratches you and you have him put down, that is.
Meanwhile, I'm putting your posts on ignore - you have only one tune, and I've already heard it too often. Thank goodness you won't be spewing posts any longer when I post.

 

[ZAMB]

If Arabs don't hate the west, they should. Reading this article, containing statements by US and Israeli politicians, the level of racism is astounding. Arabs are animals, snakes, cancers etc - never human beings like us. I just printed the first couple of paras, but there is a link to the whole thing and you'll get the idea.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14172.htm

Dershowitz and Grades of Human Beings

By Juan Cole

07/24/06 "Information Clearing House" -- -- Alan "Torture is OK" Dershowitz is annoyed that the Israelis have been accused of killing innocent civilians. He is now arguing that there are degrees of "civilianity." He wonders how many innocent civilians killed by Israel in Lebanon would still be innocent if we could make finer distinctions.

(He should read the Lebanese newspapers and he would get the answer. One third of those killed by the Israelis are children. I'd guess they are all civilian all the time. And then there are the families, like the Canadian women, children and men blown up at Aitaroun. I suppose they are really civilians. Etc. )

But I don't know why Dershowitz stops there. Let me reformulate his argument for him. Shouldn't we recognize degrees of humanness? After all, isn't that the real problem? That the enemy is considered a full human being in the law of war? That horrible Supreme Court judgment that Hamdan had to be given a trial of some sort was based on the misunderstanding that he is a human being.

Israeli officials have already showed us how Arabs can be reclassified away from a full "human" category that they clearly, in the view of the Kadima government, do not deserve.

For instance, Israeli ambassador to the United Nations Dan Gillerman angrily denounced Kofi Annan for neglecting this key fact. The Guardian reports, ' Mr Gillerman said "something very important was missing" from Mr Annan's speech: any mention of terrorism. Hizbullah were "ruthless indiscriminate animals", he told reporters. '

So you see, one reason that you can just bomb the hell out of the Lebanese in general is that they aren't human beings at all. They are "animals." You might quibble that Gillerman is only referring to members of the Hizbullah party as animals, not all Lebanese. But most Shiite Lebanese, some 45 percent of the population, support Hizbullah. And the Lebanese government, made up of Christians, Sunnis and Druze, let Hizbullah into the Lebanese government and gave it cabinet posts. So probably those who tolerate Hizbullah are at most half-human. This has yet to be worked out. It might be possible to declare them .66 animal. Or maybe they are just all animals. They speak Arabic, after all, right Mr. Gillerman?

 

[TeeJay]

If Arabs don't hate the west, they should. Reading this article, containing statements by US and Israeli politicians, the level of racism is astounding. Arabs are animals, snakes, cancers etc - never human beings like us. I just printed the first couple of paras, but there is a link to the whole thing and you'll get the idea.

When you say "us" are you saying that none of "us" are arabs? And are you saying that no arabs are part of 'the west'?

Saying that arabs should hate 'the west' because of the racism of some of its members is an idiotic thing to say - the same logic would tell people to hate every group ("black", "white", "asian" etc.) because each one contains at least some bigots and racists.

How does this make you any better than the bigots and racists? They also move from the specific to the general, treat all members of the group as if they are the same and blame them all for the shortcomings of specific individuals. Sounds like you yourself are a nasty bigot if you really do think like this.

 

[TAE]

I am starting to hate the west.

 

[ZAMB]

Teejay, please keep your word on something and stop responding to my posts - even though you are on ignore I can't help seeing your blabber when I get e-mail notification. You were the one who said I wasn't intelligent enough for you to respond to [ which could be seen as a racist statement in itself], so why do you keep trying to challenge the posts of this oh so unintelligent severely disabled Irish person?

Forget that question - just keep your word and leave me alone, you arrogant prick.

 

[TeeJay]

Teejay, please keep your word on something and stop responding to my posts

ZAMB, please go and fuck yourself you cretinous little twat.

I will post whatever I want to in response to the dribbling shite you post on u75 and if you don't like it then put me on ignore or report it to the moderators.

My remark meant that I don't intend to try and have a sensible debate with you because you talk utter shite, are full of bigotry and support terrorist cunts.

This doesn't mean I won't rebutt all or any shite you posts here, for the benefot of anyone else reading these threads. That is not the same thing as attempting to enagage with you in debate. In any case since you now have me on ignore you won't be reading my posts or talking to me.

If my posts which appear on tyour email notification are so difficult for you to deal with then either turn them off or don't read the ones that start with "TeeJay posted:...".

I am ceratinly not going to do you any favours at all and will continue to posrt whatever I want to. If you don't like it then go fuck yourself.

 

[editor]

Can you two put each other on permanent ignore please?
And ZAMB: please ignore the text in the email notifications.

Thanks.

 

[ZAMB]

Can you two put each other on permanent ignore please?

That would suit me fine - but he seems to think he can shower me with insults in every post. Unfortunately I have to read the notifications as sometimes I get sent notifications for posts I've already read.

As I said , I'm a severely disabled person - my computer is my link to the outside world. My question to you is - how many insults is enough? What does this person have to call me to get banned. I don't mind people disagreeing with me - I do care about the level of insults from this person.

After trying other US groups, which aren't too open to UK opinion, Aldebaran persuaded me to join U75 because, as a UK group, I wouldn't have any problem - and most of the time I don't - just with this troll stalking my posts just to spew insults at me - even though most of my posts are backed up by cites.

 

[John Grean]

Maybe you can tell us what an "arab" is?

If you have any kind of coherent answer then maybe you could contribute to this thread:

What does 'arab' mean exactly?

Arabs are an ethnic group who originate from, and are the largest ethnic group in North Africa and the Saudi peninsula.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs

I have also posted this link onto the thread you quote.

 

[TeeJay]

I tried putting a number of people on ignore recently and ended up with a massive list, but ultimately this means that these people can plaster these boards with utter rubbish and not have it challenged. I found it hard to follow threads where peop,e were talking to each other but I large chunks of the conversation were missing, so I took everyone off ignore again.

ZAMB I suggest that if you don't want me to insult you then don't start throwing around vile insults yourself. Many people seem to think they can label all sorts of people murders and criminals and throw all sorts of insults at them but cry foul when they get blasted for what they have been posting.

I am not trolling - I post genuine views and don't post stuff simply to wind people up or get a reaction.

I am also not stalking you, any more than you are stalking me - we happen to be posting on the same threads, just like a whole bunch of other people.

As for you being disabled, Irish or whatever ... I really couldn't care less: I will treat your posts and views like I treat everyone else's - equally and on their own merits. If I think they are a load of rubbish I will say so.

 

[John Grean]

And what is your question about this?



Really... Where on earth you get such ideas would be a good question for me to ask, but maybe you could read this

Islam and suicidal terrorism:Analysing connections
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=152746

and then post balanced questions?

salaam.

How do Lebanese people who clearly look Lebanese come to have British passports? I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that some must be married to British people, which would explain the passport.

However, see the following quote from Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_law

A Muslim may not marry or remain married to an unbeliever of either sex (2:221, 60:10). A Muslim man may marry a woman of the People of the Book (5:5); traditionally, however, Islamic law forbids a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim man unless he converts to Islam.


This would then beg the question that if Lebanese Muslims are married to British Christians, then is strict Sharia law not observed, as these people have not been killed?

 

[John Grean]

What makes you think that holding british passports automatically means mixed faith marriges?

Given that Christians and atheists make up 90% of the British populace.

 

[dessiato]

I have limited experience of Arabs so my observations are exactly that, observations, however within my experience most Arabs DO hate the west.

 

[John Grean]

This might give you some background:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4314423.stm

A quote from the above:

Hezbollah has always sought to further an Islamic way of life. In the early days, its leaders imposed strict codes of Islamic behaviour on towns and villages in the south of the country - a move that was not universally popular with the region's citizens.

 

[TeeJay]

Given that Christians and atheists make up 90% of the British populace.

And 60% of the Lebanese population.

 

[John Grean]

I think you need to do a bit of research on the demographic make up of Lebanon. For a start, I wouldn't even describe it as a 'Muslim' country...

Well the BBC beg to differ with you describing it as majority Shia Muslim.

Also Wikipedia includes it in the Muslim world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_World

 

[John Grean]

And 60% of the Lebanese population.

% and total Muslims:

Lebanon 70% 2,678,212

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

Scroll down to bottom of page.

 

[John Grean]

From what I have seen of the evacuation of Lebanon there are more than a few people of Middle Eastern descent who have British passports.

Does this mean that strict Sharia law is not observed in Lebanon? ie. any Muslim woman sleeping with a non-Muslim man will mean that both will be brutally murdered? (or at least the non Muslim).

Very few posters seem to have addressed the question of whether Arabs hate the West.

If many/most do it seems ironic they should want to escape to Britain.

Even the radical preacher Bakri wanted to come back here, despite being kicked out for praising suicide bombs like 7/7!

Unsurprisingly the government refused, we've got enough Muslims here already.

 

[John Grean]

From what I have seen of the evacuation of Lebanon there are more than a few people of Middle Eastern descent who have British passports.

Does this mean that strict Sharia law is not observed in Lebanon? ie. any Muslim woman sleeping with a non-Muslim man will mean that both will be brutally murdered? (or at least the non Muslim).

It may have been more appropriate to ask "Do all Muslims hate the West?", given that the majority of worlds Muslims don't live in the Arab countries.

Only 2 of top 10 muslim countries in arab world.

Only 8 of top 20 in arab world.

 

[TeeJay]

That's weird. The webpage you linked has two different numbers:

The left hand column (#59) says:

Lebanon - 2,257,351 - 59%

...and the right hand column:

Lebanon - 70% - 2,678,212

Tha main wikipedia entry for Lebanon says:

"No official census has been taken since 1932, reflecting the political sensitivity in Lebanon over confessional (religious) balance. It is estimated that about 60% of the resident population are Muslims; the rest are Christians."

and

"...There are approximately 15 million people of Lebanese descent, mainly Christians, spread all over the world, Brazil being the country with the biggest Lebanese community abroad. Lebanese are of mixed descent. They possess Phoenicican, Aramaic/Syriac, Greek, Roman, European (Crusaders, mainly French) and Arabic elements..."

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon#Demographics

In any case you have no grounds for being 'confused'. There are many Lebanese non-Muslims and Sharia law especially in its extreme/most strict versions are not in force in Lebanon.

 

[nino_savatte]

It all depends on what one means by "The West"...innit?

 

[Aldebaran]

How do Lebanese people who clearly look Lebanese come to have British passports? I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that some must be married to British people, which would explain the passport.

Why can't you also include in this that these people are UK citizens simply because born in the UK?
(Sorry, I don't open links to external sites.)

A Muslim may not marry or remain married to an unbeliever of either sex (2:221, 60:10). A Muslim man may marry a woman of the People of the Book (5:5);

Al Qur'an

surat al-bakara (2); 221
starts with: "Do not marry polytheists as long as they did not become believers"
(further on that same command for women.)

surat al-mumtahana (60); 10
talks (among others) about women who left their (Meccan) husbands who were polytheists. They should be tested on their beliefs and is they believe, not be send back to these men who are not permitted to be married to a believing women and they are not permitted to be married to them. Permission is given for the Muslims to marry these women and Muslim men should not stay married to women who don't believe.

surat al-ma'ida (5); 5
talks (among others) about permission to marry honourable women among the Muslims women and those belonging to "the people of the book".

traditionally, however, Islamic law forbids a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim man unless he converts to Islam.

There is no escape - even in situations where both spouses have an income - that Islam makes the man responsible for every financial and other support of his wive(s) and children. From this follows that he is also responsible for their education which of course (and first of all) includes their religious education.
That is the root cause of the objection to a non-Muslim husband of a Muslim woman.
However, personally I don't agree with the (since beginning of Islamic history) widely supported and spread consensus that there is clear support for this in Al Qur'an.

This would then beg the question that if Lebanese Muslims are married to British Christians, then is strict Sharia law not observed, as these people have not been killed?

I asked you before: How do you come to such reasonings which clearly indicate that you think

a) shari'a law is One Static Monolithic Legal System
b) countries with a majority of Muslims are all One And The Same (from which follows: "Muslims are all alike")
c) Muslims run around out on killing the non-believers and all those who dare to have something to do with them
and not to forget
d) If a woman is Lebanese, she "must" be Muslim by default and practicing at that

salaam.

 

[ZAMB]

How do Lebanese people who clearly look Lebanese come to have British passports? I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that some must be married to British people, which would explain the passport.

This comment appears to be a bit racist, as the UK is a multi-cultural society.

I agree with Aldebaran on this, that these people may simply be born in the UK.

 

[Structaural]

Interesting you see Arabs as being Muslim. My flatmate is Arab and Christian, he doesn't "hate the west" (whatever that means)...

My ex- girlfriend was a Xtian Arab from Beirut (non-practising). She lives in London after fleeing Beirut the last time all this shit happened...
The OP is a troll.

 

[nino_savatte]

This comment appears to be a bit racist, as the UK is a multi-cultural society.

I agree with Aldebaran on this, that these people may simply be born in the UK.

Exactly, I suspect our thread starter is presenting a hidden discourse.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

No it's true, i have many arab friends who refuse to face west, they all insist on facing either north or south and sidestepping if they need to head in that direction.

 

[Fruitloop]

That's a serious handicap, having to move like a chess bishop.

 

[Jonti]

... people who clearly look Lebanese ... have British passports?

How the heck does one look Lebanese? How does one look "unBritish"?

I think we should be told!

 

[Aldebaran]

See how perpectives differ...
I find it already amazing that someone like the OP can *make* a difference. He seems to be able to see if someone is Lebanese or from an other rag-head-country. That is in my experience a not all too common gift among Westerners in general.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm now seriously troubled by the question in the thread title. It gives me some insight why I always have the feeling to be ready for teh madhouse. Imagine all that obligated hating of the West because I'm Arab, while having to love it because my mother was European.
Maybe I'm not dyslexic like I was told to be and like I believe I am... Maybe I simply have a splitted brain and a multiple personality disorder.

I would explain much...

salaam.