Disruption at Book Fairs 11

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by PeterTCA, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. PeterTCA

    PeterTCA Well-Known Member

    The previous post got so de-railed by gender right and wrongs (some of it little better than the Jeremy Kyle Show) that the basic message gets lost.

    The Cunningham Amendment, as a healing contribution to the aftermath of the London Book fair, sponsored four provincial Book Fairs. Our reasoning was that recovery lay in small provincial events whereby earlier disasters could be avoided. The more local events, organised by more groups, the better.

    Book Fairs, hard thankless projects in themselves, are faced, often at the last minute, from people with demands for inclusion, critiques of the organisers, complaints about lack of publicity and the suitability of the venue. Groups invading an event always demand to enter into "dialogue" and are thus, successful in further disruptions of time and space.

    Truth is that securing city-centre venues is not easy and can come with particular T&C's. If these get breached (as happened at the Peoples History event in Manchester) the venue gets lost.

    As long as we see the movement as a mass movement we leave ourselves open to informers, spycops and a variety of groups content to score points by destroying the event. As was witnessed last Saturday, an otherwise positive event, was disrespected and undermined.

    Disruption is a virus present at all open events and there is a need to set up protective responses.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  2. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    tbh the ira were not a mass movement but were still penetrated by the army, police and informers. it's very difficult to see how - even if it was desirable - that we organise otherwise than an open movement.
     
    LynnDoyleCooper likes this.
  3. M Testa

    M Testa Well-Known Member

    Red Action were pretty good at keeping out informants and others.
     
  4. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    one major difference between the anarchist milieu and red action is that the anarchist milieu is not a membership organisation.
     
  5. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    Really?

    I don't think there's been any political organization of note in the UK that's been any good at keeping out informers - or undercover cops.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  6. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    That's fucking nonsense. And roping all those things into the same category is stupid.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  7. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    There's reasons why these events are becoming more problematic to organize and run, but the idea that the root issue is that we're organizing as a 'mass movement' isn't one of them.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  8. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    tbh no one's really looked at informers, that's a whole kettle of worms we know nothing about. undercover cops and corporate spies, it'd be somewhat easier for security-minded people to do - peculiar jobs or a reluctance to tell you where they work, coupled with a lack of backstory and an inability to produce friends or family gets my hackles rising but is by no means proof positive.
     
  9. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    i recall having meetings in wetherspoons and there were tables with more people on than there were in my group :oops: :D one thing we ain't is a mass movement.
     
  10. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    It's also a much more complex issue to deal with, both in discovery as it's harder to have definitive proof of people passing information for cash or favours as there tends to be no paper trail and obviously they're 'normal activists' generally.

    It's also much harder to deal with when exposed, as it tends to be vulnerable people that do this, either because they're financially in need, the cops have a possible conviction to hold over them, or a family issue such as custody of children pending.

    Given the fact that plenty of people have been approached to do this, and I know of a few have been found out/admitted to it over the years, I suspect the pool of people that have done this is larger than one might initially think.

    But I largely think it's a bit of a red herring and an inevitability of any political group/movement. Strength through size and involvement, not some bonkers secret cell structure.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  11. existentialist

    existentialist Danced on by a twerking bee

    What happened to "Disruption at Book Fairs 2-10"?
     
  12. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    Photo-shopped from history. :hmm:
     
    two sheds, co-op and existentialist like this.
  13. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    Bookfairs have managed for many years through intentional disruption, proper fights, and huge political disagreements and accusations.

    What's changed in the scene/movement that means they're now much more likely to be closed down over this issue (and similar ones) than over previous rows?
     
  14. chilango

    chilango Cold, frankly incensed and...meh

    My view is we need to be more open.

    Specific, limited, exceptions aside we shouldn't be doing anything deserving of the need to hide.

    We should be making connections between our ideas and people's daily lives. And doing ihis in an open, approachable, reasonable (yes, fucking reasonable!) way.

    Sure that leaves the door open for cops and cranks. But they're in anyway. They need to be outnumbered.
     
  15. chilango

    chilango Cold, frankly incensed and...meh

    ...and the Bookfairs are probably the closest we get to open and approachable.
     
  16. sunnysidedown

    sunnysidedown Well-Known Member

    Safe-space absolutism.
     
  17. Serge Forward

    Serge Forward Well-Known Member

    It's an inward facing anarchist ghetto full of people and groups I'd rather avoid to be honest (though I wouldn't dream of banning them). What passes for an anarchist 'movement' needs to be more outward looking.... dare I say it... looking outwards towards the class rather than gazing at right-on navels.
     
  18. likesfish

    likesfish officaly hardest and most tooled up urbanite:)

    If you haven't booked a slot in good time and agreed to the T&C you don't come in if you don't like it tough.
    some people Just don't play well with others it doesn't matter what you do they will never be happy or be prepared to obey the rules it's a book fair set up by volunteers not their private hugbox either obey or fuck off.
     
  19. Bingo!
     

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