Dispathes Undercover Mosque

[Spion]

Wahabbists

have saudi money behind them so they can print up there nice big shiny korans and teaching aids and give them away free so making everybodys life that just a bit more miserable (think the jewish extremists or american fundys ) at least the other twos posions limited as they don't want to talk to mud people

WHo?

 

[treelover]

bit late, but yes, i am, the double standards of the far left are unbelievable, they were filmed saying racist, sexist, homophobic things, yes, if it was the BNP, you would be there like a shot, even at the ballet

this doublethink makes me mad , and i imagine lots of others very angry, there should be pickets and they (the crazies) should be thrown out of the mosque by their committee.

And I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying they should be picketed?
Reply With Quote

 

[treelover]

In some ways, certainly demeanour, they came across a bit like like those faux U.S revolutionaries of the sixties and seventies, and a little like the rea ones: Badder meinhoff, weathermen, etc, there was something a bit naive about them, but dangerous.

True, I'm not referring to people born here. But some of them did seem to be shitstirrers of the globetrotting variety. One had an American accent, another sounded like an Australian - though my favourite specimen was the man from Essex with the adenoidal 'call me Brian' trainspotter voice. You've already been integrated, chum, just start watching trains instead of urging others to blow them up

 

[Spion]

bit late, but yes, i am, the double standards of the far left are unbelievable, they were filmed saying racist, sexist, homophobic things, yes, if it was the BNP, you would be there like a shot, even at the ballet

this doublethink makes me mad , and i imagine lots of others very angry, there should be pickets and they (the crazies) should be thrown out of the mosque by their committee.

So you think the left should start campaigning among radical Muslims. Seems a good thing if the resources are there. Are you going to be arguing for this anywhere?

 

[nonamenopackdrill]

Because while all Wahhabists are Muslims, not all Muslims are Wahhabists.

This Green Lane mosque lot look a right load of nasty, bigoted, mediaeval types. And cowardly with it, when confronted with their own words they try to pass it off as quoting out of context or 'a joke'.

Is the definition of a bigot not judging someone by how they look?

 

[Spion]

Al-Respeq

Why do you call them that? It sounds like a clever way of saying 'that p**i party' to me.

 

[Andy the Don]

So you think the left should start campaigning among radical Muslims. Seems a good thing if the resources are there. Are you going to be arguing for this anywhere?

Well if UAF/SWP can find enough people to picket & disrupt the ballet then why not picket Green Lanes Mosque. What is being communicated at Green Lanes is much more dangerous than a ballerina & her dodgy right wing views. Some of the posts on this subject appear to be a case of shooting the messenger. If it had been a Rabi or a Vicar spouting that shit the condemnation on here would be ferocious.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Personally I'm against anyone who preaches/peddles exclusionist hatred, and is a bigoted little shit who fantasises about violence towards people who are 'different'.

I don't give a fuck whether they are calling themselves White Surpremacists, Hard Leftists, Zionist settlers or Islamists or whatever.

And I'm not apologising for being a fan of democracy and freedom of speech, of conscience and worship. I do draw the line at freedom of speech etc being used to justify criminal actions. You can call me a *lefty liberal if you want, I don't consider it to be a term of abuse, I'm proud to be one.

* as this isn't P&P, however, I don't suppose anyone will bother calling me or anyone else ''lefty liberal'' as if that is a term of abuse

 

[Badger Kitten]

Anyway, Salafism via Wiki, good article IMO

 

[dash]

In some ways, certainly demeanour, they came across a bit like like those faux U.S revolutionaries of the sixties and seventies, and a little like the rea ones: Badder meinhoff, weathermen, etc, there was something a bit naive about them, but dangerous.

Yeah more of a Junior Janjaweed.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Why do you call them that? It sounds like a clever way of saying 'that p**i party' to me.

Or a way of expressing anger about a party that purports to be socialist but keeps schtum on many issues to avoid offending their muslim financial backers.

 

[Spion]

What is being communicated at Green Lanes is much more dangerous than a ballerina & her dodgy right wing views.

I'm not convinced that a bunch of radical muslim loons is more dangerous than the BNP. The potential audience numbers just do not compare

 

[dash]

I'm not convinced that a bunch of radical muslim loons is more dangerous than the BNP.

As a daily user of public transport in London, I feel that Islamist nutters intent on getting the undivided attention of seventy virgins in Paradise are a greater immediate threat to my health than the BNP. Hopefully the Koran has been misinterpreted, and they'll each end up being ministered to by a seventy-year-old virgin.

Whenever there is a bomb attack, or some attempt by Islamists to ratchet up the pressure on freedom of expression, then this is likely to translate into more support for the BNP. I bet there's been a few grateful renditions of 'What a friend we have in Allah' at BNP HQ already. The more open support there is for the BNP, the easier it is for the Islamists to paint a picture of a hostile kuffar society intent on wiping out Islam. The two feed off each other.

 

[Andy the Don]

I'm not convinced that a bunch of radical muslim loons is more dangerous than the BNP. The potential audience numbers just do not compare

BNP members have not been suicide bombers on the transport system & have yet to murder 52 innocents.

 

[Spion]

As a daily user of public transport in London, I feel that Islamist nutters intent on getting the undivided attention of seventy virgins in Paradise are a greater immediate threat to my health than the BNP. Hopefully the Koran has been misinterpreted, and they'll each end up being ministered to by a seventy-year-old virgin..

Fair enough, but your preceptions as a Londoner on public transport are not the same as an assessment for the UK as a whole. As a Bradfordian the rise of the BNP across the north is a far more immediate threat

Whenever there is a bomb attack, or some attempt by Islamists to ratchet up the pressure on freedom of expression, then this is likely to translate into more support for the BNP. I bet there's been a few grateful renditions of 'What a friend we have in Allah' at BNP HQ already. The more open support there is for the BNP, the easier it is for the Islamists to paint a picture of a hostile kuffar society intent on wiping out Islam. The two feed off each other.

A fair point to an extent, although even if there were no bombings the BNP would find or make up some reason to hate muslims/p**is anyway. And 'What a friend we have in Channel 4' for giving such out of proportion attention to the islamic loons might be more appropriate.

Anyway, what do you think should be done about these groups?

 

[dash]

Spion: I'll take your word on the Bradford side of things, I haven't been there for many years. It doesn't sound like a good situation. How do you think things will develop there in the long term?

Re the BNP finding other reasons if there weren't bombings, yeah sure. But bombings help make people not yet in their orbit more receptive to their message. By the same token, the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan have helped Islamists win recruits too. If those hadn't happened, the hard core would still be trying to organise and grow, only they wouldn't be so successful.

Dunno if the Channel Four program was out of proportion. It's a newsworthy domestic subject, its treatment in the program was not really comparable to the relentless frothing-mouthed stuff in the Daily Express for example.

There were one or two moments in the Dispatches program where they may have edited out material to avoid raising fears too much. Specifically, where some the speakers were outlining their proposed way forward with reference to the word 'increase' - "as we increase".

Did they mean numbers of hard-core Islamists? Or did they mean the Muslim population in the UK, the sea in which they hope to swim? iirc in one place the editing moved things on quickly after the mention of 'increase'. Yet you might expect the speakers to have expanded on such an important point. It'd be worth seeing the program again with that in mind.

As to what can be done, some people in P&P talk about community-oriented politics. That's probably a big part of the way forward, but don't want to get involved in long debates in that forum.

 

[treelover]

Hopefully the Koran has been misinterpreted, and they'll each end up being ministered to by a seventy-year-old virgin.

 

[bigbry]

There aint many pubs in my part of Dag that don't have bnp members in.

I'm afraid that they are the mainstream in quite a few wards.

Probably true of most working class areas in the UK - unskilled people are seeing there jobs 'taken by immigrants' as they see it whether they be Eastern European or what and too many of them see a brown face as different and therefore an immigrant. To them the fact that they are born here doesn't matter - and the perceived failure of a large section of the Islamic community to 'integrate' doesn't help. I hear people in pubs in the Midlands who by their conversation are in unskilled occupations (labourers, warehousemen, etc.) and some of them have some fairly uncompromising views. The London elite can talk about multiculturism but there's a sizeable minority in the UK who haven't bought into it.

I'm becoming less and less optimistic about the future of this country with every year that passes - the views in the above paragraph are not mine, just what I've heard on numerous occasions.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Probably true of most working class areas in the UK - unskilled people are seeing there jobs 'taken by immigrants' as they see it whether they be Eastern European or what and too many of them see a brown face as different and therefore an immigrant. To them the fact that they are born here doesn't matter - and the perceived failure of a large section of the Islamic community to 'integrate' doesn't help. I hear people in pubs in the Midlands who by their conversation are in unskilled occupations (labourers, warehousemen, etc.) and some of them have some fairly uncompromising views. The London elite can talk about multiculturism but there's a sizeable minority in the UK who haven't bought into it.

I'm becoming less and less optimistic about the future of this country with every year that passes - the views in the above paragraph are not mine, just what I've heard on numerous occasions.

Sadly you've hit the nail on the head.

 

[Spion]

BNP members have not been suicide bombers on the transport system & have yet to murder 52 innocents.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible to connect BNP and other racist party propaganda output to quite a number of deaths in racist attacks.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible to connect BNP and other racist party propaganda output to quite a number of deaths in racist attacks.

But not the wholesale bombing of public transport. Some bonehead killing an individual because of the colour of their skin or their religion is different from a consipiracy to murder hundereds in one go.

 

[Spion]

But not the wholesale bombing of public transport. Some bonehead killing an individual because of the colour of their skin or their religion is different from a consipiracy to murder hundereds in one go.

Different and the same. Dead bodies are the result.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Different and the same. Dead bodies are the result.

There is a difference. The bnp have never blown up a train and dont want to impose a theocracy. Both the Islamofacsists and the Normal common or garden fash need to be fought.

 

[Spion]

There is a difference. The bnp have never blown up a train and dont want to impose a theocracy.

Blow up trains/impose a theocracy v start a race war/impose fascism. It's a tough choice, except one has the demographic suited to its success the other hasn't a cat in hell's chance

Both the Islamofacsists and the Normal common or garden fash need to be fought.

I agree - the question is how. I would imagine that in certain cicumstances you'd want to win some of their number over too.

 

[bigbry]

The bnp have never blown up a train and dont want to impose a theocracy.

A white 'theocracy' ?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

BNP = Scum

Islamofacsists = Scum

Kill em all God will know his own

 

[Greebozz]

Hi, I know this is against the rules on double posting but I wrote the below in the UK politics forum and the thread just died, no one had a word to say about it.

What I have written is exactly how I feel. I'm not entrenched in my view I want someone preferably a Muslem to tell me why I am wrong I am more that happy to listen and be persuaded. The reason I have copied it here is that I really want to hear people's response.

I may well be become banned myself but I would appreciate intelligent replies. Anyone who just posts a one line insult with bad grammar and I will put on my ignore list



This is what I wrote.

The second point is to do with the Muslim community in the UK. Most Muslims hate Bush and Blair and are very angry about the war in Iraqi. The problem I and many others have, is that I never got the feeling that you really liked British an American culture in the first place. There seems to be only one attitude and behaviour, have nothing to do with "corrupt western society" and hate the corrupt western society. Thats all. No desire to get to know or understand the "West", even we have bent over backwards to respect your rights and religion.

What I am trying to say is that I think for many devout Muslims there is no meeting of cultures, we are just the infidels, that are going to burn in hell and you Muslims have to insulate yourself from the "cess pool" of western culture. Where as the Bible has many verses of hell and damnation, the Koran has them on almost every page, in a very black and white fashion all "us and them", Muslims will be saved and every non Moslem will burn in hell and can be treated without any human rights.

So basically Muslims are angry and I don't think they like anyone outside their own religion and culture, and many of them seem like the "enemy within" to mainstream British society. I'm not talking about moderate Muslims and I realise the generallising, but huge numbers of Muslims hold Bin Laden as their hero and believe terrorist attacks would be justified against the UK.

So how do you answer that charge? That you and other Muslims, that are angry about the war, never liked British western society anyway and never will. And the war is just an excuse to stir up hatred and maximise your own power base to expand your own interests.

 

[Spion]

You're making some massive generalisations here which might fit the bill for a tiny number of people. You might be better seeking answers on a more Asian-oriented board, like Pickled Politics

 

[DarthSydodyas]

What I have written is exactly how I feel. I'm not entrenched in my view I want someone preferably a Muslem to tell me why I am wrong I am more that happy to listen and be persuaded. The reason I have copied it here is that I really want to hear people's response.

How many people do you talk to, away from the keyboard?

 

[Greebozz]

You're making some massive generalisations here which might fit the bill for a tiny number of people. You might be better seeking answers on a more Asian-oriented board, like Pickled Politics

I realise that it is a huge generalisation, but my mind it is a form of engagement, it is like these are my concerns please tell your concerns is my attitude. Thank you for your advice about trying a more Asian focused for a, that is a very good idea, pickled politics is very interesting, do you know of any other forums where I can communicate with Muslims?