My comment on the campaign is this:, Yasmin Khan(25) came across as someone who was too inexpererienced for such a high profile and sensitive role. In the press conference, she came across as charismatic and extremely passionate and committed, but imv was perhaps too immature, too incautious, too strident and seemed to be pursuing a wider agenda. There is also the fact she may be compromised by her coming up before the beak for a protest against Windrush, a high profile trial, which i am sure the press will make a meal of. Rehman ,on the otherhand seems like a seasoned campaigner who may advance the campaign as long as he has no other agenda, we will see.
Dismissing campaigns as "radical plots"
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districtline said:
Just for you marx never simply said "religion is the opium of the people because he understood the contradictory role religion could play. He infact said,
"Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people"
Which surely then changes the way you veiw a minority religion of a oppressed minority in a primarily white christain dominated society.
Just saying...
rebel warrior
Soca Warrior
I knew that throwing Marxist and Muslim together would cause a bit of a stir, but it is always good to bend the stick occasionally on here... 
rebel warrior said:I knew that throwing Marxist and Muslim together would cause a bit of a stir, but it is always good to bend the stick occasionally on here...
bend the stick have you been reading 'building the party by tony cliff again
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
That is, in fact, "Religion is the opium of te people" because "religion" is what is referred to by "it".levien said:
The whole passage is a superb piece of writing.
Never "simply" said. As in Marx's analysis of religion is far more subtle then the mechanical approach suggested by people like districtline when he/she huffs "marx said religion was the opium of the people" Religion is the opium of the people but it is based on the injustice and shittyness of life in a class society. Because of this religion can play different and contradictory roles depending on which social players are interpreting religious ideas and the social situation they are based in. Thus the contradicitory role of islam in current times. For many it has become an ideological frame work for resisting western imperialism and therefor neoliberalism and implicitly (at least) capitalism. The fact that in Britain radicalisation of sections of the muslim community has been impacted upon by the Stop the War movement lends an even more significant outcome.
You couldn't for instance dismiss Salma Yacoob as reactionary.
You couldn't for instance dismiss Salma Yacoob as reactionary.
rebel warrior
Soca Warrior
People also need to think about the effect smoking opium has - it does not just make people sleepy - but has other side effects such as pain relief as well. Digs out Confessions of an English Opium Eater...
rebel warrior said:
Always had time for Asad since his early days with NMP. He was certainly no SWP stooge then and i never heard him mention the Muslim bit myself..
I know he was from Burnley and a muslim family. But always thought that none of the NMP lot were religious.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
do you have a link from a member of "the establishment" describing imran khan as evil, or as a supporter of the slp? i've just thought he was a famous supporter whose legal reputation left something to be desired. like cases won.rebel warrior said:
as for marxists, they've often come from the establishment, like tony benn for example.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
also, rw, establishment does not necessarily equal tory - tony benn (again!) is from the establishment, as is michael foot - and dare i say, also "st" paul foot, pbuh.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
and that dead widgery trot.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
you don't really understand marx's analysis of religion, do you? well, it's obvious you don't.levien said:
religion is, for marx & engels, the opium of the people in a few ways. not only is it some form of solace, it is also addictive and it removes people from reality - anyone with even the vaguest knowledge of opium knows of the dreams it produces. again, opium is famous for being something in which the state, and notably the british state, had a monopoly: you may care to refresh yr knowledge of the opium wars. so, religion was also forced down people's throats by the state.
on that point, you may wish to consult yr copy of machiavelli's discourses, where machiavelli points out that numa's introduction of religion into rome was not solely, or even mainly, for spiritual solace but to legitimate the state. likewise, religion for marx also reinforces the state: the existence of established xian churches in england, ireland & scotland (in marx's day) & the existence of state religions in saudi arabia & iran today. try being a sunni in saudi or iran & see how long you last...
marx also said that religion was the despairing cry of a soul in a soulless world, & the growth of unusual forms of xianity amongst the working class in london - uckg &c for example - shows that capitalism today is just as alientating and anomick as it was in marx's day. however, the flip side of this debased coin is the rather obvious failures of mainstream politicks to counter the need for such superstitious nonsense. though a very large number of people no longer see the need for some nebulous & ineffectual god, a sizeable proportion of the population still need the relief afforded by the dark age religions of xianity & islam.
but leninists, as scientifick socialists, ought to have no truck with religious delusions. rather than needing god or other imaginary beings as movers of events, they ought to recognise the definite laws marx and engels and lenin identified as being behind social phenomena. that the swp seem to haave abandoned that for some dalliance with a bunch of religious types is a searing indictment of their failed politickery.
Anyway...
This will happen with just about every campaign that develops.
People will jump on the bandwagon for their own selfish needs.
The campaign organisers usually don't care as they are driven by pragmatism. They just want answers and action.
Those opposed to the campaign will rubbish the legitimate campaign because others have sided with them like that somehow diminishes the legitimacy of the campaign itself.
Human nature. Self interest.
McCartney family spring to mind when a bunch of rabid right wingers attempted to hijack their campaign.
And I remember the NICRA campaign was accused of being a "republican plot".
This will happen with just about every campaign that develops.
People will jump on the bandwagon for their own selfish needs.
The campaign organisers usually don't care as they are driven by pragmatism. They just want answers and action.
Those opposed to the campaign will rubbish the legitimate campaign because others have sided with them like that somehow diminishes the legitimacy of the campaign itself.
Human nature. Self interest.
McCartney family spring to mind when a bunch of rabid right wingers attempted to hijack their campaign.
And I remember the NICRA campaign was accused of being a "republican plot".
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
Is it a samba band wagon that people keep jumping on, or a brass band wagon? Whatever, it's quite novel to have a band involved with your justice campaign. 10 out of 10 for initiative.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
I met a full-timer from NMP recently - very good politically. I think they have ironed out the problems they have had in the past with certain individuals.
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