disability benefits reforms: starting the fightback!

[tobyjug]

If i had wanted to i could have lived out the rest of my days on IB. .

Not on the say so of your doctor you couldn't and you know it. Stop lying.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Doctors have signed loads of people off as incapable to work. As mentioned by others the problem is that to get higher benefits people need to stress what they cant do but to get a Job you need to stress what you can do.

Hoops to jump through.
1) Your GP has to sign you off sick every fortnight for 6 months before you qualify for short-term incapacity benefit.
2) You then have to be examined by an "independent" DWP-contracted doctor to see whether you're fit to work, and if so, what you're capable of. If he (and an adjudication officer) decide you're fit to do some kinds of work then that's it, no benefit.
3) If he reports and the adjudication officer decides that you're not capable of any work you get the benefit but can be re-examined at the DWP's whim.

So please don't give me your tired bullshit about "Doctors have signed loads of people off as incapable to work", because you appear to have little clue as to how it all works except for "received wisdom".

The benefits system is inconsistent some people get higher rate IB and DLA who shouldnt and many dont who should.

There isn't a "high rate" IB, there's short-term and long-term.

I claimed IB for 6 months under special rules related to terminal cancer,the biggest problem i had was getting them to stop paying me the benefit when i went back to work.
If i had wanted to i could have lived out the rest of my days on IB. But having a good job where i get to help loads of people on IB i chose to go back to work. I realise in that respect how lucky i am and most people dont have jobs that are as good and flexible as mine.

You couldn't have got it for the "rest of your days", but thanks for illustrating either your ignorance of the system, or your willingness to lie in order to get your message across.
If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd know that "special rules" awards are time-limited. After all, if you're awarded money because of a terminal illness, it's reasonable to make the assumption that you'll soon be dead, no?

But i do strongly believe that lots of people on IB should get the chance and support to work. Over the last 10 years i have seen just how much it means to people.

Very laudable, but ultimately there's nowhere near enough support to go around, and because of that people are being cajoled, threatened and shoe-horned into doing stuff that is prejudicial to their physical and mental health.

 

[tbaldwin]

So please don't give me your tired bullshit about "Doctors have signed loads of people off as incapable to work", because you appear to have little clue as to how it all works except for "received wisdom".

There isn't a "high rate" IB, there's short-term and long-term.

You couldn't have got it for the "rest of your days", but thanks for illustrating either your ignorance of the system, or your willingness to lie in order to get your message across.
If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd know that "special rules" awards are time-limited. After all, if you're awarded money because of a terminal illness, it's reasonable to make the assumption that you'll soon be dead, no?

Very laudable, but ultimately there's nowhere near enough support to go around, and because of that people are being cajoled, threatened and shoe-horned into doing stuff that is prejudicial to their physical and mental health.

Received wisdom???? What the fuck are you on about. I have worked with loads of people on IB. People who are articulate and have a good relationship with their Doctors get signed off with depression and bad backs etc. In the long run it doesnt do a lot of them any favours.

I got the higher rate of IB after 6 months though i never took it. And how many people do you know who have their IB ended after getting it thru special rules?
As for assumptions that people will soon be dead,it kind of ignores medical advances and that some people (like my good self and Jesus come back from the dead)
As for being called a liar.... by a stuck up twat like you.... ooh ooh ouch..

 

[tobyjug]

Received wisdom???? What the fuck are you on about. I have worked with loads of people on IB. People who are articulate and have a good relationship with their Doctors get signed off with depression and bad backs etc. In the long run it doesnt do a lot of them any favours.

You cannot get Incapacity Benefit on your GPs say so. Stop telling lies.

 

[tbaldwin]

You cannot get Incapacity Benefit on your GPs say so. Stop telling lies.

Yes you can.
And millions have. You seem to have a very limited experience of what your talking about.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Received wisdom???? What the fuck are you on about.

I'm on about the fact that you've either got your information down the pub or out of "tbaldwins' bumper book of bollocks", because it's laughably inaccurate.

I have worked with loads of people on IB. People who are articulate and have a good relationship with their Doctors get signed off with depression and bad backs etc. In the long run it doesnt do a lot of them any favours.

You do not get IB on your GPs say-so alone. You will get SSP (standard Sick Pay) for six months, after that you have to be medically examined by a DWP dr and assessed as to whether you are capable of work. If you are assessed as incapable of work you will then get short-term IB for 6 months, at which time you will be transported to long-term IB.

That's how it goes, not the way you're trying to present it.

I got the higher rate of IB after 6 months though i never took it. And how many people do you know who have their IB ended after getting it thru special rules?

2. They both died you mardy cunt.

As for assumptions that people will soon be dead,it kind of ignores medical advances and that some people (like my good self and Jesus come back from the dead)
As for being called a liar.... by a stuck up twat like you.... ooh ooh ouch..

Starting with the namecalling again? Always a good sign that you're talking a load of fucking shit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes you can.
And millions have. You seem to have a very limited experience of what your talking about.

No you can't. You can get SSP (£68.20 a week) if you've been in employment and paying NI contributions for the right length of time.
You can only get IB on a GPs say-so through the special rules, for which (as you well know) you have to have a terminal illness with an imminent death. Otherwise you have to jump through all the hoops I've mentioned above.

 

[tobyjug]

Yes you can.
And millions have. You seem to have a very limited experience of what your talking about.

As you so obviously know fuck all about claiming Incapacity Benefit it is a totally pointless exercise discussing the subject with you.

 

[tbaldwin]

No you can't. You can get SSP (£68.20 a week) if you've been in employment and paying NI contributions for the right length of time.
You can only get IB on a GPs say-so through the special rules, for which (as you well know) you have to have a terminal illness with an imminent death. Otherwise you have to jump through all the hoops I've mentioned above.

As usual your ignorance is only overshadowed by your arrogance.
Loads of people get IB without first getting SSP. People with Learning Difficulties or Profound Mental Health Problems or people classed as terminally ill for example.

You seem to think your an expert on this issue but that is based on very little knowledge and experience.

 

[tbaldwin]

As you so obviously know fuck all about claiming Incapacity Benefit it is a totally pointless exercise discussing the subject with you.

Claimed it myself and helped loads of other people claim it. So tobyjug your talking shit.

 

[tobyjug]

Claimed it myself and helped loads of other people claim it. So tobyjug your talking shit.

If you think anyone's Doctor can them Incapacity Benefit it is YOU who are talking shit. A claimants doctor has no input into the IB50 claim form whatsoever.
Why don't you fuck off and troll somewhere else.

 

[ViolentPanda]

As usual your ignorance is only overshadowed by your arrogance.
Loads of people get IB without first getting SSP. People with Learning Difficulties or Profound Mental Health Problems or people classed as terminally ill for example.

In other words people already able to claim benefits that "passport" them to IB. You'll have to try harder than that balders.
And it isn't "loads of people" either, it's less than 10% of claimants.

I'd already mentioned terminal illness btw.

Not that I'd expect you to notice that. You're too busy trying to big yourself up as an authority on the subject when you know jack-shit to actually bother to properly read what anyone else writes

You seem to think your an expert on this issue but that is based on very little knowledge and experience.

Of course it is balders, you're absolutely right, I have little knowledge and experience.
You keep believing that, mate. I know it helps you feel better about being such a loser if you're able to diss other people.

 

[tbaldwin]

If you think anyone's Doctor can them Incapacity Benefit it is YOU who are talking shit. A claimants doctor has no input into the IB50 claim form whatsoever.
Why don't you fuck off and troll somewhere else.

tobyjug you clearly have a very limited knowledge of this issue. Your wrong but you are basing your posts on very limited personal experience and your prejudices.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If you think anyone's Doctor can them Incapacity Benefit it is YOU who are talking shit. A claimants doctor has no input into the IB50 claim form whatsoever.
Why don't you fuck off and troll somewhere else.

Because he wants to derail this thread just like every other one on the subject.

He's a Billy Two-shits, he always knows better, he's always done more, and yet when you challenge him he's never got any detail, just waffle about generalities.

 

[tbaldwin]

VP.
What knowledge do you actually have on IB.
Is it based on claiming it yourself?
Helping loads of other people claim it?
Or have you found something on the internet?

 

[ViolentPanda]

VP.
What knowledge do you actually have on IB.
Is it based on claiming it yourself?
Helping loads of other people claim it?

On claiming it myself.
On helping other people (10-20 a year) claim it and appeal and go to tribunal if necessary.
On reading the actual DWP guidelines, appeal judgements and case histories, as well as the usual stuff from CPAG and Disability Alliance.

Or have you found something on the internet?

 

[tobyjug]

tobyjug you clearly have a very limited knowledge of this issue. Your wrong but you are basing your posts on very limited personal experience and your prejudices.

YOU TOTAL ABSOLUTE FUCKING ARSEHOLE.
I had five years of shit getting Incapacity Benefit and keeping it.
I have been on Incapacity Benefit since it took over from the previous benefit.
I have very extensive experience of Incapacity Benefit, and written reports for RADAR and given written evidence to the Social Security Select Committee on the subject. I have also helped and advised a fair number of people on the subject and never once lost a tribunal.
Your GP CANNOT get you onto incapacity benenefit. If you knew anything whatsoever about Incapacity Benefit you would know that.

 

[tbaldwin]

On claiming it myself.
On helping other people (10-20 a year) claim it and appeal and go to tribunal if necessary.
On reading the actual DWP guidelines, appeal judgements and case histories, as well as the usual stuff from CPAG and Disability Alliance.

Given that how come you dont know about People with Learning Difficulties,People with Mental helath problems who have all got IB without going thru what you and tobyjug have described?

 

[tbaldwin]

Your GP CANNOT get you onto incapacity benenefit. If you knew anything whatsoever about Incapacity Benefit you would know that.

Yes they can. A letter from your GP does the trick for loads of people.

 

[tobyjug]

Given that how come you dont know about People with Learning Difficulties,People with Mental helath problems who have all got IB without going thru what you and tobyjug have described?

In think you will find there are number of U75ers with mental health issues that have had just the same amount of shit as anyone else claiming IB.
In no case can anyone's GP get them Incapacity Benefit. There is no mechanism for a GP to sign anyone onto Incapacity Benefit, all people have to be assessed by a government agency doctor. It used to be the Benefits Agency Medical Sevices. I have no idea what the shower of Dr Mengele clones call themselves currently.

 

[tbaldwin]

In think you will find there are number of U75ers with mental health issues that have had just the same amount of shit as anyone else claiming IB.
In no case can anyone's GP get them Incapacity Benefit. There is no mechanism for a GP to sign anyone onto Incapacity Benefit, all people have to be assessed by a government agency doctor. It used to be the Benefits Agency Medical Sevices. I have no idea what the shower of Dr Mengele clones call themselves currently.

tobyjug, sorry to labour the point but your wrong. People can get IB without being assesed by a govt agency doctor. I was loads of people i know were.
And Mental Health is a very wide term. But people with profound MH wont have to go thru a govt agency either.

 

[tobyjug]

tobyjug, sorry to labour the point but your wrong. People can get IB without being assesed by a govt agency doctor. I was loads of people i know were.
And Mental Health is a very wide term. But people with profound MH wont have to go thru a govt agency either.

No-one can get Incapacity Benefit by being signed on to it by their GP. There is no mechanism for a GP to do it. So please stop stating there is.

 

[tbaldwin]

No-one can get Incapacity Benefit by being signed on to it by their GP. There is no mechanism for a GP to do it. So please stop stating there is.

Do you seriosuly imagine that all the people on IB have seen a govt officer?
Loads of people are recommended for IB by support workers,doctors and other proffesionals.

 

[tobyjug]

Do you seriosuly imagine that all the people on IB have seen a govt officer?
Loads of people are recommended for IB by support workers,doctors and other proffesionals.

Lots of people can recommend that someone should be on IB. None of them can sign someone on to IB. Only a benefits official can do that, and most of the time they take fuck all notice of what a GP or a support worker states.

 

[tbaldwin]

Lots of people can recommend that someone should be on IB. None of them can sign someone on to IB. Only a benefits official can do that, and most of the time they take fuck all notice of what a GP or a support worker states.

Thats hardly been my experience. I would concede though that benefits are given very inconsistently. As i said some people seem to get it who you wouldnt think would and others dont same with DLA.

 

[tobyjug]

Thats hardly been my experience. I would concede though that benefits are given very inconsistently. As i said some people seem to get it who you wouldnt think would and others dont same with DLA.

Your experience counts for fuck all. A GP cannot sign anyone on to Incapacity Benefit. No-one can get Incapacity Benefit without a Personal Capability Assessment.(formerly All Work Test).

 

[ViolentPanda]

Given that how come you dont know about People with Learning Difficulties,People with Mental helath problems who have all got IB without going thru what you and tobyjug have described?

I refer you YET AGAIN to my previous replies.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes they can. A letter from your GP does the trick for loads of people.

Here's a link to Disability Alliance's up-to-date pages on IB.

Care to point out where it say anywhere that a doctor's letter gets you any benefit except (as I've repeatedly said) for the first 6 months, after which you (unless you qualify under the special rules) have to have a medical examination?

Like you can get any benefit on the say-so of your GP.

 

[ViolentPanda]

In think you will find there are number of U75ers with mental health issues that have had just the same amount of shit as anyone else claiming IB.
In no case can anyone's GP get them Incapacity Benefit. There is no mechanism for a GP to sign anyone onto Incapacity Benefit, all people have to be assessed by a government agency doctor. It used to be the Benefits Agency Medical Sevices. I have no idea what the shower of Dr Mengele clones call themselves currently.

The current shower are supplied by one of those big private companies that suck up so much public money, SEMA-SCHLUMBERGER iirc. They're contracted to turn over a certain amount of medicals and reports per day. Apparently the average contractor lasts about 18 months to 2 years before "burn-out".

 

[tbaldwin]

Here's a link to Disability Alliance's up-to-date pages on IB.

Care to point out where it say anywhere that a doctor's letter gets you any benefit except (as I've repeatedly said) for the first 6 months, after which you (unless you qualify under the special rules) have to have a medical examination?

Like you can get any benefit on the say-so of your GP.

You will no doubt have noted by now that YES in fact there are different rates of IB. And possibly you will also note that IB is paid to people assesed or TREATED as incapable of work.
Looks like you and Tobyjug as Internet campaigners have proved incapable of reading properly.