Dirty Pretty Things last night
- Thread starter Cheesypoof
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clandestino
no llevar papel
Cheesypoof said:
But here's a thing. Isn't the Kinks' "Village Green Preservation Society" (the song), essentially their equivalant of "Born In The USA" - ie the song that has been embraced as a patriotric rallying cry when it's in fact satire? I've always read the song as being a dig at village green, little England values - maybe I'm wrong, and it's all meant to be sincere.
ianw said:
I think that's probably the case, at least partly. And indeed, Monty Python were surely ripping the piss out of the same sort of thing.
I feel - as ever - cheesypoof has rather missed the point. Or her heroes have missed the point for her.
clandestino
no llevar papel
I don't know - it's a tricky song to read. It sits on the fence slightly - I think it could be interpreted as satire or as being sincere. I don't particularly like it, so it might be me wishing it was satire so I could like it more - if you see what I mean.
it is the very nature of its wit and satiric value that makes these things uniquely British.
You get me?
You get me?
Cheesypoof said:
So on the one hand it's something to aspire to, but at the same time we should take the piss out of it?
Give it up, cheesypoof, you haven't got a fucking clue
ianw said:
I think it's the ambiguity that makes it interesting and it's a tension i think Davies probably felt himself.
But anyway, we're being far too coherent - back to cheesypoof's inane 2nd hand ramblings
clandestino
no llevar papel
Dubversion said:So on the one hand it's something to aspire to, but at the same time we should take the piss out of it?
Give it up, cheesypoof, you haven't got a fucking clue
Hang on, she might have a point here. Isn't part of the British character doubled edged in this fashion - ie a pride in where you come from, but then the desire to rip the piss out of it. Sarky, bullish characters - that's what we're like sometimes.
I'm not entirely sure how this relates to the Libertines though. My take is this - musically they're shockingly average, apart from a couple of truly great songs - "Don't Look Back Into The Sun" being the best. I actually prefer Babyshambles - I saw a gig when they had the female drummer that was far, far better than any of the embarrasing Libertines shows I'd endured. But because part of what they do relies on Pete's charm - and he was extremely charming that night - haven't the band been damaged irrevoccably by Pete's recent behaviour. Ie - apart from the diehard fans, no one finds Pete charming any more. As for DPT, they're utterly average and won't be bothering us much longer I suspect.
I don't have a problem with the Albion/Arcadia imagery. I don't take it seriously - but then I don't really think you're meant to.
clandestino
no llevar papel
Dubversion said:
Yes, good point. In fact, thinking back to it now, that tension does back it better than all out satire. But some things just need all out satire. I'm not really a fan of all this village green, middle england, Daily Mail nonsense.
clandestino
no llevar papel
pootle said:I haven't been online for a while, but this is a BRILLIANT thread
I actually think this one is better - http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=163627 - the first three pages where pretty much everyone misses the point of the original post are priceless.
Dubversion said:I think it's the ambiguity that makes it interesting and it's a tension i think Davies probably felt himself.
But anyway, we're being far too coherent - back to cheesypoof's inane 2nd hand ramblings
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
I hope some day-hehe-hey you'll join us
And the wor-huhu-hurld can live as one.
sorry Dubby, i just couldnt, couldnt resist
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Didn't Blake prattle on about self-indulgence bringing about wisdom? In Doherty's case crack and heroin. Not very wise indulging in that crap. Whether he'll live to see wisdom is anyone's guess? I alway's got the impression that 'Albion' was about death? He might see that soon enough.
That would be a waste of talent btw, whatever you think of Doherty on a personal, romantic level.
That would be a waste of talent btw, whatever you think of Doherty on a personal, romantic level.
Cid
Proper break this time
brahaminda said:I think you've put your finger on what it is I don't like about this Lazytines/Babyshandy/Drippy Potty Things franchise(cheap, but so am I
Its essentially conservative music for conservative people dressed up in
radical chic (and a highly dubious version of radical at that)
What I find depressing about them is the complete lack of imagination and adventurism there AT ALL. Nothing new, nothing different.
While Petie D etc may have grabbed hold of the whole Albion schtick from Blake, they represent a complete failure to grasp Blakes worldview, that it was Imagination that is the engine that drives revolution, not violence, and certainly not nostalgia
Very true...
cheesypoof said:
I'd read up on the philosophies of the romantics before you start talking about them, it's not that simple by any means. To be fair I can't remember half of the damn stuff, a lot of things about the revitalisation of nature-myths, loss of innocence, the nature of beauty, memory etc. Interesting movement mind you, often misconceived because the word 'romantic' is so loaded - I might read up on it again, refresh the ol' memory.
Oh yeah, for keats' core philosophies read about the vale of soul making etc, for Blake you'll have to read between the lines of 'The fall of Albion' - I would suggest getting some books on it as it goes a lot deeper than the original. You'll also need to read Paradise lost/regained and similar literature. For Wordsworth you'll be wanting Lyrical Ballads and The Prelude. You'll also want to get into some Coleridge as the two are very closely linked (being friends).
jeepers cripes we are only talking about musical ideals here.
thanks for your thoughts though.
thanks for your thoughts though.
Cheesypoof said:
You're the one who started twatting on about Albion.
no, you are the one that started giving me a proper grilling about it.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Cheesypoof said:
when you brought it up. You're really stupid, aren't you?
Cid said:
you dont need a degree in such things to gauge a feeling from what you read and learn. That is what free thinking is all about mate.
Cid
Proper break this time
Cheesypoof said:
Actually one of things you'd learn about poetry if you bothered to read about it is that taking it at face value is a pretty crap way of reading it. Wordsworth, Blake, Keats et al never went for the obvious meaning - for one thing a lot of their work vears very far away from the Christian society of the time, hinting at a return to nature-religion, pantheism etc. You may not need a degree, but a bit of background reading to get even the most basic info is a bit of a prerequisite before you start spouting off about anything, especially such a complex idea as romanticism.
er...how do you know i dont read mate?
assumptions are pervasive throughout ur posts here
if you dont mind me saying.
assumptions are pervasive throughout ur posts here
if you dont mind me saying.
Cid, i've got to go out. Can i leave it to you to point out the contradictions in her posts?
cheers
cheers
King Biscuit Time
Well-Known Member
i havent contradicted myself at all.
But the pompous pontifications on here are just priceless
But the pompous pontifications on here are just priceless
Lisarocket
In bed with me dinner
Cheesypoof said:But the pompous pontifications on here are just priceless
Sure you don't write for the Sun? Lovely bit of alliteration that Cheesey
So these Dirty Pretty Things then. They don't half sound just like the Libertines with or without Petey. Did he actually do anything in the Libertines, 'cos it sure as hell sounds like Barat did it all to me....
I do like their new ode to Petey. It's definitely about him. I don't think they like him that much really
I love your threads Cheesey....bit samey, but y'know, not bad...
Cheesypoof said:
I was going to say leave Cheesy alone, she has a right to be a deluded zygote, but then I read this one....
ONLY MUSICAL IDEALS!
ONLY MUSICAL IDEALS! There is nothing mightier than ideas, and music predates the word itself. We had music, even if it was just imitating bird calls years before we even had fire, guaranteed. ONLY MUSICAL IDEALS! I'm completely pissed off by that, there is nothing more important.
Agh. I cannot even come up with words to articulate how violently I disagree with that....
Just plain stupid! "ONLY MUSICAL IDEALS!"
*wa*!
the reference was in response to the pontificators above. It means that we dont need some ponce telling us what the fuck it means, you interpret it from your own imagination, thoughts, feelings and experiences, untainted by some textbook view of the world.
YOU EXPERIENCE IT FOR YOURSELF.
x
YOU EXPERIENCE IT FOR YOURSELF.
x
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