difficult employee - help needed please

[Thora]

no no - it's not about her ignoring my instructions or refusing to do things - it's about her agressive attitude, I was speaking to her soley about her attitude, the whole issue of her not completing her work is seperate and has not been dealt with yet as I am just looking into that as it maybe that they have too much work etc, the issue that I spoke to her about was soley about they way she comes across and I can only tell her about how I feel she comes across, I can not say that "she is" agressive and unapproachable as I would have to substantiate such a claim and I can't, I can only tell her how she comes across to me and if I had had complaints from others then I would have also said that they felt this was too but to make a statement that she 'is' agressive is like saying 'she is ugly' - how can you ever stubstantiate such a statement?

To be honest, it sounds then like a bit of a personality clash - maybe what you feel is agressive is just her being assertive. A lot of cultures are a lot more blunt than the British.

 

[Callie]

no no - it's not about her ignoring my instructions or refusing to do things - it's about her agressive attitude, I was speaking to her soley about her attitude, the whole issue of her not completing her work is seperate and has not been dealt with yet as I am just looking into that as it maybe that they have too much work etc, the issue that I spoke to her about was soley about they way she comes across and I can only tell her about how I feel she comes across, I can not say that "she is" agressive and unapproachable as I would have to substantiate such a claim and I can't, I can only tell her how she comes across to me and if I had had complaints from others then I would have also said that they felt this was too but to make a statement that she 'is' agressive is like saying 'she is ugly' - how can you ever stubstantiate such a statement?

So there may be a possibility that staff have too high a workload and she is being aggressive. Perhaps it would be better to focus on sorting out the workload and managing that, trying to help your staff rather than focusing on her agressive attitude?

I know which I would rather have dealt with as an employee.

 

[butchersapron]

Yep - why assume that they're unrelated?

 

[Space Girl]

Aye concrete examples of how her behaviour is effecting her work. I think not getting on is something you have to deal with as individuals, if she isn't doing her job (no added value..... management speak? what exactly does that mean?! ) does she actually do her work to a suitable standard?! is she fulfillin gher job description? if not capability, if she is..... well not sure what you can do?

pickmans

her behavour is not effecting HER work - it's effecting the rest of us

as for her not doing her job, at the mo I am just looking into this as she is good at some things but bad at others, she is an average performing employee but if she was just that then this would be ok but she is an average performing employee with a really bad attitude that has negative effects on others - I need her to see how her behavour effects others - I am not asking her to change her personality, I am just asking her to behave in a manner which is accepable to the surroundings, I nor the other people in the office go to work to be shouted at, to have an agressive employee in their face - it just is not acceptable and as her manager I need to find a way to deal with her - I maybe just banging my head against a brick wall but I have to at least try otherwise I would not be doing what I am paid for - I do believe that she can get where she needs to be and I also beleive that she has been poorly managed in the past so I need to at least try with her but it's how I do that which is causing me the probs

 

[_angel_]

The first time I read this, I thought this was mainly a personality clash - but it does now seem there may be some issue about workload that could be understandably affecting her attitude.
Maybe?

 

[Pickman's model]

space girl - have you ever been on a management course? all you need to do is think a bit more laterally...

 

[paulhackett]

Go out of the office for a coffee or lunch, tell your boss you're doing it and why, take as much time as you need, ask for her opinions, what she likes and doesn't like about her role, what does and doesn't work, what she would change, let her say what she needs to, put your point across and where possible, come to an understanding. An informal review. Do it with the resto of the team as well, or take them all out together.

 

[isitme]

put her in a cannon and fire her into the sun like in ironman

 

[Pickman's model]

put her in a cannon and fire her into the sun like in ironman

south park

http://www.tv.com/south-park/toms-rhinoplasty/episode/2427/summary.html

also, from wikipedia:

Plot

Valentine's Day approaches, and Wendy suggests ways to spend time with her boyfriend, Stan (to Cartman's amusement). However, when schoolteacher Mr. Garrison goes to get a rhinoplasty, a new substitute named Ms. Ellen (voiced by Natasha Henstridge who was referred to in the opening credits as "the chick from Species") comes, and all the boys in class find themselves inexplicably enamored with her, including Stan (who pukes when his name is called). Wendy becomes incredibly jealous, when the boys decide to buy Valentines gifts for her, despite the fact that Ms. Ellen does not particularly like them. At the same time, Chef is also actively trying to pursue her love. After school, Wendy approached Ms. Ellen and demands she stay away from Stan, thinking that Ms. Ellen likes him more than any of the other students. Her exact words are, "Don't fuck with me! Stay away from my man, bitch, or I'll whoop your sorry hoe-ass back to last year!"
Concerned about the children's education, since they seemed to have learned nothing under Mr. Garrison, Ms. Ellen reveals she has a spelling test for the class and she will buy dinner for the winner. The boys, by this time, are actively trying to court Ms. Ellen, but Chef (having beaten them in their attempts of courtship) warns them she is a lesbian and thus she only likes other lesbians. Even Kenny is ignorant of what a lesbian is, and the boys try to become lesbians themselves in order to win Ms. Ellen's heart. A short comedic scene that follows shows Cartman licking the floor in his living room, explaining that his mom told him that "to become a lesbian, he has to lick carpet". Upon hearing this all the other boys start to do this as well.
Wendy's attempt to make herself more noticeable to Stan fails, since both she and Ms. Ellen wear black leather to school. Mr. Garrison comes in and says he is no longer going to be their teacher. His nose job works out well, and as one of the most attractive men in South Park (looking like David Hasselhoff), he decides to quit teaching and spend his time "hanging out and screwing hot chicks". To Wendy's horror, Principal Victoria comes to the classroom and says Ms. Ellen will be the permanent teacher. This is made worse when Stan is revealed to have won Ms. Ellen's competition and will have dinner with her. To top it all off, Principal Victoria also informs Wendy that her grandmother has just died.
During the dinner with Ms. Ellen, Stan finds out that Ms. Ellen has no intention of making love with him. Wendy however, seeing this through the restaurant's window, walks away sadly. In class the next day, Wendy tries to make friends with Ms. Ellen and, at the same time, reveal to Stan how he's broken her heart. Suddenly, and inexplicably, several Iraqi men burst into the classroom during the session, and declare that Ms. Ellen is actually an Iraqi fugitive. As she resists arrest, she kills Kenny by impaling him with a sword to his face. The insurgents take her into custody and shoot her into the center of the Sun via a rocket.
Concurrently, a large group of women rampages the streets in search for Mr. Garrison. Mr. Garrison, frightened by all the attention and horny women, decides to return to his normal looks. Wendy reclaims Stan as her boyfriend. As she is about to kiss him, Stan vomits as usual. Wendy is relieved that things are back to normal. At the end of the episode, as Kyle is questioning the unusual end of Ms. Ellen, Wendy speaks with the Iraqi men in fluent Arabic and pays them with a wad of American money. Wendy, slightly deranged, watches as the rocket blows up in the sun. Kyle, who figures out what actually happened, was about to object on this, but she finishes with her eyes flashing, declaring "I told her: 'Don't fuck with Wendy Testaburger!'"

 

[Space Girl]

So there may be a possibility that staff have too high a workload and she is being aggressive. Perhaps it would be better to focus on sorting out the workload and managing that, trying to help your staff rather than focusing on her agressive attitude?

I know which I would rather have dealt with as an employee.

I can see that there maybe too much work for her to do but she still finds time to surf the net?? and when I have mentioned this she says that she is fine and that she can cope, I have said that we will look together into systems that can help so they can concentrait on the more client facing side of her role (which I know she loves) but this was met with negativity saying that she does not need any systems, that she can cope and she says that she is not overworked

so I feel that I am damned if I do and damned if I don't - I just want her to do what she is paid to do and do it well without the agression and attitude - is there anything wrong with this?

I am looking into ways to streamline their work (with their assistance and input) so that the mundain stuff is done automatically - I have explained that this will not lead to there not being enough work (which I thought they may be worried about) but that it would give them the opportunity to deal with other things such as client facing etc

as for not focussing on her attitude - it is just one of the things I have to focus on and if I did not then it would just go on and on unchecked like it already has - I can not just sweep it under the carpet

 

[Callie]

her behavour is not effecting HER work - it's effecting the rest of us

Has anyone officially made a complaint against her? Yes someone with a rubbish attitude is not nice to work with but generally I think that someone having a bad attitude doesn't actually stop me doing my work. If she is being specifically unco-operative and obstructive that is different.

Has it been made clear to her what she is expected to do and by when (I think this is getting into the realms of capability) if yes, then how is she fairing?

I really think you should focus more on sorting out the workload issues because presumably that is effecting everyone too and would be presumably something easier to deal with and easier to get results on.

 

[Space Girl]

Go out of the office for a coffee or lunch, tell your boss you're doing it and why, take as much time as you need, ask for her opinions, what she likes and doesn't like about her role, what does and doesn't work, what she would change, let her say what she needs to, put your point across and where possible, come to an understanding. An informal review. Do it with the resto of the team as well, or take them all out together.

I have already had informal 1-2-1 with her (and the rest of the team) and I have asked all this stuff and she just says that she loves her job, all aspects of it, the workload is fine etc so she comes across that she loves it all and thinks she is great at it

tbh with you, she can not see what she is like, she will not admit that she has made any errors to the extent of changing reports when she has made errors so the fault then lies with another employee - this has happened on many occassions from the reports I have read but it had not happened whilst I am her manager so I can not raise them as they should have already been dealt with but to me, this shows a side of her that is not good, not a team player and is certainly willing to get her team mates into shit so she does not

 

[quimcunx]

I can see that there maybe too much work for her to do but she still finds time to surf the net?? and when I have mentioned this she says that she is fine and that she can cope, I have said that we will look together into systems that can help so they can concentrait on the more client facing side of her role (which I know she loves) but this was met with negativity saying that she does not need any systems, that she can cope and she says that she is not overworked

so I feel that I am damned if I do and damned if I don't - I just want her to do what she is paid to do and do it well without the agression and attitude - is there anything wrong with this?

I am looking into ways to streamline their work (with their assistance and input) so that the mundain stuff is done automatically - I have explained that this will not lead to there not being enough work (which I thought they may be worried about) but that it would give them the opportunity to deal with other things such as client facing etc

as for not focussing on her attitude - it is just one of the things I have to focus on and if I did not then it would just go on and on unchecked like it already has - I can not just sweep it under the carpet

You said you've only been there 3 weeks. So from her point of view, she's gone for the job, been knocked back and now the new boss has immediately got the boot in for her.

Maybe deal with the team workload and systems first without singling her out, then her attitude.

 

[Pickman's model]

 

[the button]

I am looking into ways to streamline their work (with their assistance and input) so that the mundain stuff is done automatically

Although I can see why you're trying to do this, the bit I've put in bold is a classic manager's mistake -- i.e. automating a shit/boring process, but leaving the shit/boring process in place.

It could be that the shit/boring process is indispensible, but if you're really going to involve them (and they'll be able to tell if it's windowdressing in seconds), you need to start with your outcomes (i.e. the desired end results of what it is exactly that you do) and work backwards -- cutting out the stuff that doesn't contribute, rather than hiding it in an automated corner.

Another thing to beware of is letting one person (and I think you know who I'm talking about, in the context of the thread) dominate the discussions. There are ways around this, obviously.

Anyway, this is a bit too much like my job, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Callie]

I just want her to do what she is paid to do and do it well without the agression and attitude - is there anything wrong with this?

You mentioned her cultural background...I don't know how much of an influence that would have but it *might* have some with how she behaves, I don't think you can change someone's personality. If that is how they react to certain situations all you can do is point out that it is inappropriate and hope that she takes it on board.

Either that or just have a big fight and kick her in the face?

 

[Pickman's model]

Another thing to beware of is letting one person (and I think you know who I'm talking about, in the context of the thread) dominate the discussions. There are ways around this, obviously.

 

[Space Girl]

Has anyone officially made a complaint against her? Yes someone with a rubbish attitude is not nice to work with but generally I think that someone having a bad attitude doesn't actually stop me doing my work. If she is being specifically unco-operative and obstructive that is different.

Has it been made clear to her what she is expected to do and by when (I think this is getting into the realms of capability) if yes, then how is she fairing?

I really think you should focus more on sorting out the workload issues because presumably that is effecting everyone too and would be presumably something easier to deal with and easier to get results on.

yes, complaints have been made about her and about her attitude but this is before my time and she is stopping me and others doing our jobs as we just don't want to approach her but as a manager I need to be able to approach her and so do the rest of the team - she is being very obstructive

before I can talk to her about issues with her not completeing her work I need to find the correct way to communicate with her so she will be responsive to the issues, with most people you know how to approach them, some you can be direct to, others you can't, there is an art to dealing with different personality traits and I have been on lots of training courses on how to deal with such but I ain't had no training on her type of personality and tbh I have never come across someone like her before and I have worked in huge companies and had lots of staff and I have never met anyone like her before - I am really stumped on how to deal with her

 

[Pickman's model]

read my pm and all will become clear

 

[Space Girl]

You mentioned her cultural background...I don't know how much of an influence that would have but it *might* have some with how she behaves, I don't think you can change someone's personality. If that is how they react to certain situations all you can do is point out that it is inappropriate and hope that she takes it on board.

Either that or just have a big fight and kick her in the face?

spot on callie and that's what I am trying to do, I just need to find the correct way of doing it really - it's like swearing, we all do it but when we go to our grans or when we are around kids, we stop it as it's not approprate situation - that's all I want her to understand - it's not appropreate to be agressive in the workplace

and I really hope I don't get to the stage when I want to kick her in the face

 

[Space Girl]

Although I can see why you're trying to do this, the bit I've put in bold is a classic manager's mistake -- i.e. automating a shit/boring process, but leaving the shit/boring process in place.

It could be that the shit/boring process is indispensible, but if you're really going to involve them (and they'll be able to tell if it's windowdressing in seconds), you need to start with your outcomes (i.e. the desired end results of what it is exactly that you do) and work backwards -- cutting out the stuff that doesn't contribute, rather than hiding it in an automated corner.

Another thing to beware of is letting one person (and I think you know who I'm talking about, in the context of the thread) dominate the discussions. There are ways around this, obviously.

Anyway, this is a bit too much like my job, so I'll leave it there.

the shit boring stuff has to remain - it's the accounts side of their job - most of which I can make automated rather than the huge spreadsheets etc that they don't complete which has a knock on effect on the rest of the business -if they don't do the accounting side then we don't get the money into the business and with business these days we need the money in asap so it's a vital part of their role but it is mundain and it can be made pretty much automated which will not only assist them but the rest of the business too

 

[the button]

the shit boring stuff has to remain - it's the accounts side of their job - most of which I can make automated rather than the huge spreadsheets etc that they don't complete

The rest of them will love you for it.

It's a terrible cliche, but it would be one of those "quick win" thingies if in your early days you take away something that no-one like doing (especially as there's a compliance issue around it).

A useful byproduct is that it'll isolate the pesky employee if everyone else thinks you're great for getting rid of the giant spreadsheets.

 

[Space Girl]

they are all up for it except for her - I think she is worried about her workload being reduced to such an extent that I may see that actually she does fuck all ..maybe that's she is fault finding with everything despite the fact at I have involve her and the team in looking into things - it's not like I have made a rash decisssion that won't work and intorducted it to them - it's something I have put in place in the past and have experience in knowing it will work and assist them and I have also had them involved from day one so they can see the benifits and she is just like 'no, we don't want it, don't need it, can't see any reason to change etc' and says it all agressivly, saying that she is going to go and find an arguement against it - she is just being obstructive for the sake of it whilst the rest of us all sit in amazement with her outbursts and lack of team work - I know that change is going to be hard but I didn't know it would be this bloody hard

 

[5t3IIa]

I know this seems to be the solution for all ongoing issues with third parties (terrible neighbours, antisocial this and that, mad exes etc) that gets posted on urban but can you keep a diary?

You suggest something to the team, she reacts agressively, you say 'I think we're all shocked at your reaction to this' and is descends into whatever shit that happens everytime and you deal with that then write it all down. And again and again, presumebly. Then you have something to present to the boss or her or whaever.

If it's bad once you can have a review with her and tell her what you're doing and give it a month then review again.

 

[the button]

'no, we don't want it, don't need it, can't see any reason to change etc' and says it all agressivly, saying that she is going to go and find an arguement against it - she is just being obstructive for the sake of it whilst the rest of us all sit in amazement with her outbursts and lack of team work - I know that change is going to be hard but I didn't know it would be this bloody hard

Does anyone else challenge what she says when it's "we don't want it," or is it stunned silence? You might have to start prompting the "well I think it's OK," reactions.

Incidentally, what do you want out of this? Do you want her to improve, or do you want her to leave?

 

[Space Girl]

I am going to keep a record of any issues that arise and just gather them up, maybe there will not be enough to warrant an more action but somehow I don't think so

no-one else stands up to her when she uses the 'we' word and they all sort of put their heads down and not look at her, I seem to be the only one who looks at her and what I have noticed is that when there is anyone else with us she will not look at me, she will not give me any eye contact at all, she will direct all her rants to others and she will talk about me saying 'her' and 'she' but when it's just the two of us talking she looks right at me, on occasion she has stood up to rant at me. When I called her in to go through the issues she stomped in and stood there with her hands on her hips - great body language

as for what I was out of this, I just want a team that works well together and I want her to be part of it, I do think that there are things she is good at but there are more that she is not, I think she has not been developed at all and her behaviors have been swept under the carpet - but the bottom line is she is either in or she's not - her choice - I am more than willing to develop her but she has to want to change and also see that she needs to - I can't force her but I just need to find the way to get her to see what the issues are - I am not willing to give up on her but there has to be a stage where it has to stop if she is not getting anywhere - I believe that I have duty to develop her and I hope I am successful but finding the way is the main issue

 

[Pingu]

keep records and make sure you follow the companys procedures and policies. do not deviate from them. when you have sufficient, verifiable evidence initiate the companys disciplinary process. by all means give her a chance to sort things out but no off the record chats and keep any disciplinary action strictly formal and by the book.

hopefully she will change the behaviour and all will be happy and well but if not then you will have few options. like it or not you are her manager and part of your job is to manage her. if needed involve HR at an early stage so you have their backup. if hr dont back you up i would seek somewhere else to work tbh

 

[Space Girl]

I think that the problem is that the company is small so they don't really have much experience in dealing with staff as they are close knit - the accounts manager is have a problem with one of her clerks, she has been off sick for 15 days and only been in the company 5 months, she is always late, makes mistakes etc and the accounts manager needs to address these issues, the MD and HR lady won't back her, saying that they have no grounds - they are also very scared of putting anything in writing which does concern me as they just don't seem to either know what to do or want to do what is needed - as for looking for somewhere else to work - I have no reason to leave as I have done nothing wrong - I will just present the MD with all of the errors this lady makes and let her deal with them and I am sure, when she starts to compromise the MD's position then the MD will do something especially when it comes to the accounts side as the MD answers to finance director who will not be happy if revenue is not in because my staff member has not delivered, if the MD turns round to me and says I am not managing my team I will throw all the proof that she is aware that there is an issue right back into her face and CC the finance director on the email too - she will then move her butt into gear that's for sure

 

[temper_tantrum]

Can't you just introduce a performance management procedure for everyone? Get the bosses' buy-in first of course. Then apply it impartially. And so forth.

 

[Space Girl]

pdp's are as far as I know something they do already, however, I have heard that some of the things that have been bought up in the PDP's has been news to the employees which should not the be the case, nothing should be a surprise to an employee when they have their pdp, they should have been told all the way along if there are things that they need to improve upon throughout the year and not just once a year - I will do PDP's on my team even if they company does not do them as I think they are good as long as time and effort is spent on them and it's not just a corporate box ticking excessive - the 1-2-1's should also be a good time to bring up issues and praises I thinks