Did Israel hit Syrian Nuclear reactor?

[moono]

newharper;

Juan cole is hardly convinced.

That's a really good article. I think that the only benefit this episode has given the Zionists, the aggressors, is that it has probably caused the Syrians to withdraw from any peace talks. That may very well have been the sole reason for it, with American approval as a bonus.

That, as we all now know, is the usual Zionist tactic prior to talks. Take, as emphasis, the recently-revealed plans to 'confiscate' Palestinian land and the well-timed resumption of mechanical digging in muslim-revered Jerusalem sites.

 

[rachamim18]

Fact is we did and it is now declassified so enjoy. Anyone that thinks Israel will allow a state technically at war with us to acquire that level of arms is out of their mind. Iran should take note (we are still on alert).

 

[rachamim18]

"Vanunu." The man deserves death. It is testament to Israel's liberal democracy that the man is alive at all, never mind contemplating his next move as a free man.

As for Israel's alleged nuclear program...A liberal democracy surrounded by 32 nations (not including the PA of course) , most of which exist in a perpetual official state of declared war with it should be expected to do whatever it can to gain some clear advantage.

The differece say, between Iran and Israel, or Syria and Israel as is most pressing, is that those nations are racist and aim for genocide. Israel does not aim to destroy any nation or entity that does not threaten its own existence.

Just look at Jordan and Egypt, the only 2 Arab nations officialy at peace with Israel, if they are any measure of what Israel can expect with official peace, it would be well served IF it had nukes.

 

[Fruitloop]

Don't be a silly boy, of course it does.

Vanunu deserves death? Just when I thought you couldn't get any less appealing

 

[moono]

Liarboy still hanging about ? He lied to Granny.

A couple of bunker-busters on Dimona ought to level the playing field.

 

[TAE]

Fact is we did and it is now declassified so enjoy. Anyone that thinks Israel will allow a state technically at war with us to acquire that level of arms is out of their mind. Iran should take note (we are still on alert).

If you were an official then Iran would now have a valid reason to pre-emptively attack you, well done.

Geez, I hope people like you are not looking after Israel's diplomacy.

 

[rachamim18]

TAE: I am not an official anything., save fertiliser manufacturer and grain miller. I represent only myself.

Fruitloop: How do you see high treason? You find it a misdemeanour to imperil an entire nation including your own family. By the way, his family (close anyway) agree with my view, save one sister who will not commit one way or the other.

 

[TAE]

TAE: I am not an official anything., save fertiliser manufacturer and grain miller. I represent only myself.

Yes, I know, I meant that I'm glad that you are not an official. Mind you, I'm glad that I am not an official - for the same reason.

 

[rachamim18]

Of course. I would never dream of ever going near anything of the kind. Working as an aide to a Liason (to Phalange Party in Leb for a year was enough to make me steer well clear of the propaganda wheels.

 

[nino_savatte]

"Vanunu." The man deserves death. It is testament to Israel's liberal democracy that the man is alive at all, never mind contemplating his next move as a free man.

As for Israel's alleged nuclear program...A liberal democracy surrounded by 32 nations (not including the PA of course) , most of which exist in a perpetual official state of declared war with it should be expected to do whatever it can to gain some clear advantage.

The differece say, between Iran and Israel, or Syria and Israel as is most pressing, is that those nations are racist and aim for genocide. Israel does not aim to destroy any nation or entity that does not threaten its own existence.

Just look at Jordan and Egypt, the only 2 Arab nations officialy at peace with Israel, if they are any measure of what Israel can expect with official peace, it would be well served IF it had nukes.

Israel lied to the world about its nuclear programme. If anyone else had have done the same the US would have been issuing threats by the boatload.

As for your use of the phrase "liberal democracy" you might want to have a long hard think about what that really means.

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: "Israel lied to the world about its nukes." Until you personally see one, or srael admits it as truth, you have no idea what Israel has or does not have. As such, what Israel tells anyone about it is not relevant. For Vanunun however to try and denigrate his own nation, a nation that actually rescued his family from the hovel they almost died in in Morrocco, and then to try to expose what he FELT were national security flaws and issues is beyond words as far as atrocious .

"If anyone else had done so, the US would be issuing threats by the boatful." IF the US had proof, and the US DID personally inspect the alleged facility without finding one iota out of whack, and the US was convinced that said nation posed a rea threat to stability on any level, especially its interests, of course it would probably do more than complain.

As it is, it has no proof but it DOES have proof that Israel is as a stable as it comes and that is saying a whole lot for a region that undergoes major changes on a daily basis. Ergo, it has no reason to do anything of the kind.

Israel is not party to any sort of agreement, it is not threatening to use them (if it even had them), and as such it is really a non-issue with the US as it should be.



"Liberal Democracy."Israel fits the bill. Like it or not, it is what it is and propaganda does not change reality.Actually a better form than the US.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: "Israel lied to the world about its nukes." Until you personally see one, or srael admits it as truth, you have no idea what Israel has or does not have. As such, what Israel tells anyone about it is not relevant. For Vanunun however to try and denigrate his own nation, a nation that actually rescued his family from the hovel they almost died in in Morrocco, and then to try to expose what he FELT were national security flaws and issues is beyond words as far as atrocious .

"If anyone else had done so, the US would be issuing threats by the boatful." IF the US had proof, and the US DID personally inspect the alleged facility without finding one iota out of whack, and the US was convinced that said nation posed a rea threat to stability on any level, especially its interests, of course it would probably do more than complain.

As it is, it has no proof but it DOES have proof that Israel is as a stable as it comes and that is saying a whole lot for a region that undergoes major changes on a daily basis. Ergo, it has no reason to do anything of the kind.

Israel is not party to any sort of agreement, it is not threatening to use them (if it even had them), and as such it is really a non-issue with the US as it should be.



"Liberal Democracy."Israel fits the bill. Like it or not, it is what it is and propaganda does not change reality.Actually a better form than the US.

You seem to forget how many times I have seen this sort of thing. I am not taken in by lies or propaganda.

Israel denied that it had a nuclear programme, it even denied it to its biggest ally and bank roller, the US. So what is Dimona? A drive-in cinema?

 

[rachamim18]

What is Dimona? It is irrelevant as it is not a facility that can only make nukes. It could conceivably be doing many other things. Again, assumption is not good enough to condemn.

 

[nino_savatte]

He asks "what is Dimona"? Is he being serious?

 

[rachamim18]

Nino, have you even even been to ISrael? All you know are photos and hackneyed fringe propagnda sites. Until you see something or see it used you have no clue what is going on. Do you have pics of missiles? actual material as opposed to Vanunu pics of control boards? Pretty silly really. Mind you, I am not claiming one thing or another, just responsing to your "daming smoking gun."

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino, have you even even been to ISrael? All you know are photos and hackneyed fringe propagnda sites. Until you see something or see it used you have no clue what is going on. Do you have pics of missiles? actual material as opposed to Vanunu pics of control boards? Pretty silly really. Mind you, I am not claiming one thing or another, just responsing to your "daming smoking gun."

What does that have to do with anything? Is it now a requirement for me to have visited Israel in order to comment on this? This story was broken by The Times many years ago. I wouldn't expect you to praise Vanunu, rather, I would expect you to adopt the state line and smear him - as you have here.

If you were hoping to change my mind, you are sadly mistaken. I can see through your lies.

 

[MikeMcc]

An update on the story from the BEEB:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7063135.stm

It looks suspiciously like it was a dummy. A reactor without any sort of containment structure? Yeah right! Absolutely no trace of the building on satellite images. I would have expected some debris left.

 

[Grandma Death]

Nino, have you even even been to ISrael? "

What the fuck has that got to do with it? Ive never been to Iraq but I know well enough not to book my annual holiday there next year.

 

[sleaterkinney]

"If anyone else had done so, the US would be issuing threats by the boatful." IF the US had proof, and the US DID personally inspect the alleged facility without finding one iota out of whack, and the US was convinced that said nation posed a rea threat to stability on any level, especially its interests, of course it would probably do more than complain.

As it is, it has no proof but it DOES have proof that Israel is as a stable as it comes and that is saying a whole lot for a region that undergoes major changes on a daily basis. Ergo, it has no reason to do anything of the kind.

This is a US military report, from a US military site, so yes it does know you have them. http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm

 

[TAE]

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm

"THE THIRD TEMPLE'S HOLY OF HOLIES"

What does Ezekiel have to do with Israel's nukes?

WTF?

 

[nino_savatte]

An update on the story from the BEEB:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7063135.stm

It looks suspiciously like it was a dummy. A reactor without any sort of containment structure? Yeah right! Absolutely no trace of the building on satellite images. I would have expected some debris left.

It reminds me a little of the "mobile poison gas factory" in Iraq that never was.

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: "Is it a requirement for soemone to have gone to Israel in order to believe soemthing?" Of course not but neither can a person then definatively offer ther a statement one way or another.

"Did I hope to change Nino's mind?" Of course not. I would not even engage yo were it for the thought that soemwhere out there in the ther there is an objective person or two who might one day happen upon this genera hate fest and find themself curious about what is really going on in that part of the world (as opposed to the propaganda being floated here).

Mike: "No containment." Perhaps you missed the sentence about it not being compelted, having only beein in the preliminary stages. The idea is to get it before it can bite.

One need only consider how quickly Assad got the debris removed. He did so in a phenomenal amount of time. To do so means that he did not want any scrutiny at all. Seems like it fits to me even if I did not have faith in my govt.

Sleater: "US Military paper on it, so Israel DOES have it." Um, the guy is an MD with pilot rating (non-combat). He is not an analyst. He is not an NBC expert. He is not a gropoliticist and neither does his views mean squat. Read the disclaimer and then read his into. His sources were non-Intel. He is just hitting the Net, drawing his own conclusions.

Having been to both US and Israeli military colleges I can tell you that briefs mean absolutely nothing. They are not commissioned papers. Anyone can submit one for publication and in the end papers like this just gather dust.

He says that France repaid Israel with materials. That is a lie. I can tell you that straight off. Perhaps he did not mean to lie anmd simply offered conjecture but he dsid not leave room for thought. He made a definative statement and one that is totally incorrect.

"France constructed..." Again, lie.That one is easy to prove. Anyone interested, simply look it up. The initial construction is totally unclassified.

"Israel used the nuclear issue as a bargaining chip over the heads of the US to obtain continued arms sales." Now here is where I begint o doubt that this person is even associated with the US Military. Fact is, Israel did not receive ANY arms from the US until after 1961. This came to fruition after Israel agreed to allow a US team to inspect Dimona with unfettered access.

The US team signed off on a seal of good conduct and the US opend the stockhouses on a limited deal. It was pretty much a one time offering though and the next arms deal did not take place until just short of the 67 War. It only happened then, under LBJ, because the US was terrified of the USSR gaining regional supremacy, as it seemd posied to do.
"Israel deployed nukes in the 73 War." I think it is clear that the man is a fraud. No US Military man would make a definiative assertion like this. If I really cared i sould spend alot of money to call the States on that number listed to ascertain the validity of the paper. As it is, I would not spend 10 minutes of my time, let alone 10 US dollars on the call.

I will send off an email or two though and see if it sates my curiosity. Having seen umpteenth papers on similar issues I have to say that I have NEVER seen something definative on an issue not even touched upon by his govt. It is just ludicrous.The definiative statements combined with total inaccuracy makwes me really doubt its veracity.

Finally, I have never seen a US (or other) military paper with a religious heading /title.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: "Is it a requirement for soemone to have gone to Israel in order to believe soemthing?" Of course not but neither can a person then definatively offer ther a statement one way or another.

"Did I hope to change Nino's mind?" Of course not. I would not even engage yo were it for the thought that soemwhere out there in the ther there is an objective person or two who might one day happen upon this genera hate fest and find themself curious about what is really going on in that part of the world (as opposed to the propaganda being floated here).

Are you telling me that you don't post up propaganda? Pull the other one. LOL!!!

 

[sleaterkinney]

Sleater: "US Military paper on it, so Israel DOES have it." Um, the guy is an MD with pilot rating (non-combat). He is not an analyst. He is not an NBC expert. He is not a gropoliticist and neither does his views mean squat. Read the disclaimer and then read his into. His sources were non-Intel. He is just hitting the Net, drawing his own conclusions.

I didn't expect you to admit it, I'm just putting it up so that the other people on here will see your lies...

 

[sleaterkinney]

Nino, have you even even been to ISrael? All you know are photos and hackneyed fringe propagnda sites. Until you see something or see it used you have no clue what is going on. Do you have pics of missiles? actual material as opposed to Vanunu pics of control boards? Pretty silly really. Mind you, I am not claiming one thing or another, just responsing to your "daming smoking gun."

Well this rachamim18 on another site seems to think they have tested nuclear weapons:

http://**www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?p=196633#post196633

Remove the ** for the link to work

 

[Grandma Death]

Well this rachamim18 on another site seems to think they have tested nuclear weapons:

http://**www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?p=196633#post196633

Remove the ** for the link to work

Serious ownage.

 

[TAE]

http://**www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?p=196633#post196633

"south bronx,nyc"

ticks box

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: I think propaganda is best defined as exaggerated truths or more usually compelte untruths utilised to sway opinion. I woud suggest that iinstead of insulting me, simply prove something I have said is false. Quite alot of talk about my veracity in this forum and yet noone has proven me wrong, about naything.

Sleater: Using the word "allegedly" implies neither truth nor untruth, action nor lack of action. Please learn to discern the difference.

To wit, it is ALLEGED that Israe tested nukes on an island used by S. Africa. This however has never been admitted by either nation nor proven by anyone else. Understand?

TAE: "S. Bronx, NY." What do you mean about checking boxes?

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: I think propaganda is best defined as exaggerated truths or more usually compelte untruths utilised to sway opinion. I woud suggest that iinstead of insulting me, simply prove something I have said is false. Quite alot of talk about my veracity in this forum and yet noone has proven me wrong, about naything.

In which case you don't understand the definition of propaganda. Propaganda does not have to be exaggerated; it often contains a great deal of truth but it is how that truth is used to create certain discourses which are constructed so as to promote a particular ideological agenda.

Oh and where did I "insult" you?

 

[TAE]

Sleater: Using the word "allegedly" implies neither truth nor untruth, action nor lack of action. Please learn to discern the difference.

To wit, it is ALLEGED that Israe tested nukes on an island used by S. Africa.

But the post does not mention ALLEGED:

rachamim18:
Too late. Israel did that in the early 60s on an island belonging to South Africa. It was no secret to most nations.