did getting Brixton market listed help? (re: Ridley Road market, Dalston)

Discussion in 'London and the South East' started by rutabowa, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

  2. maomao

    maomao 四月她爹

    The 'shopping village' is just the covered bit on the South side halfway up isn't it? Didn't know you could buy drugs there.

    Dalston market has always been one of my least favourite London markets. Maybe because I lived round the back of the bin area for three years. A lot of people must be dependant on their t for a living though.
     
  3. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

    The article is just about one indoor bit yes, but it seems obvious that it is part of a process of neglect followed by closure followed by cheap sale and redevelopment that will eventually consume the whole market.
     
    ska invita likes this.
  4. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    There are several markets on ridley road, the market in the OP, the covered markets shops on the south of rr and the street stalls themselves. The market traders are not helpless bystanders to what's going on, some of them have a record of defeating the council in court. What's more likely to happen is the sale of land along birkbeck rd esp where traders keep their stuff, although people interested in patterns of land tenure might find it interesting to compare official records with facts on the ground.
     
    littleseb and rutabowa like this.
  5. littleseb

    littleseb littleseb

    cunts.
    Hackney Gazette says

    The final straw is believed to have been a raid a couple of weeks ago in which drugs, cash and knives were found at one unit.

    so all the other livelihoods are being destroyed for what....yuppie flats? and if not, it's corporal punishment in its worst form.
    total fucking cunts!

     
    ska invita and rutabowa like this.
  6. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

    Pickman's model dont you think it is part of a chipping-away process tho?
     
    ska invita likes this.
  7. littleseb

    littleseb littleseb

    of course it is!
     
    ska invita likes this.
  8. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

    Agreed...
    I just wonder what is to be done.
    The "listing" idea I had was probably stupid, I mean by most accounts it didn't help brixton... but I don't really know, hence asking this question.

    And the market is certainly a living, active concern, it would def be best if it could survive under its own terms as the local commercial success it is!

    But I fear there will be dirtly play that makes this impossible.
     
  9. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

  10. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    it might be but you've not referred to any other events and this by itself cannot be a process

    As I say there are three sections of 'the market' (well four including the African stalls on st mark's rise). This closure does not affect the african stalls, the covered markets shops, the street stalls. Covered markets don't seem to me likely to close their shops which may (no one knows) form the greater part of the business. The council seeks more to control than close the market, making ludicrous claims like ridley road at the junction with kingsland high street being colvestone crescent in an apparent but futile bid to move stalls up to that part of the cat's claw by the school
     
  11. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

    When that building gets done up and given to "upmarket retailers" it is going to have big effect on the near surrounding area though I would think?
     
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    given to upmarket retailers? at a time when there's empty shops for rent on the kingsland high street - not to mention the spaces which come up in the shopping centre all the time? there's the payday lender shop which closed months and months ago empty. it took ages - a year or more - before the pizza union, crepe place and burrito place opened, the spaces just sat shut. i don't know that there are people waiting to swoop onto ridley road. there was the expensive spar which is shut down now, and that shop's empty too iirc. i don't know that having upmarket retailers on ridley road is a) going to happen that soon or b) be a success. i think that they're being rather too excited. i'm reminded of a vodka bar opening on old street a couple of minutes walk from shoreditch town hall round 1992 which closed shortly after as the area wasn't ready for it. i think the same can be said of posh shops on ridley road, tbh.
     
  13. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

    The suggestion that they will become "luxury flats" does not seem too inconceivable though!
     
  14. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    i don't doubt it. and i don't doubt that the area is tending towards final gentrification, which if not a reality by the arrival of crossrail 2 will be greatly accelerated by it. however, i believe that the market is more likely to end up like broadway market than to die a death from neglect, and the introduction of new (street) food stalls suggests that's the way it's going.
     
    Sue likes this.
  15. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

    The difference is, with broadway market (and chatsworth road) there wasn't any market there at all before the gentrified market began; whereas ridley road is currently a thriving and useful community asset.
     
  16. maomao

    maomao 四月她爹

    Broadway market has been a market for a very long time. It was down to a couple of fruit and veg stalls before the gentrification but it wasn't a new market.
     
  17. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

    there was one fruit stall on the entire street; I remember it, I lived there at the time when it started.
     
  18. maomao

    maomao 四月她爹

    Well, 'one' rather than 'a couple' then but my post is true. It was previously a lively market and was one of the East London markets said to be the inspiration for Albert Square in Eastenders.
     
  19. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    there was a market in broadway market although it was moribund
    there was a market on chatsworth road
    this is why the council decided to reinvigorate those, there was a historical precedent for the activity - see also the market on kingsland waste
     
  20. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

  21. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

    Right so my point stands that they were both entirely different cases to Ridley Road, which is currently, right now, in the present, a thriving, living community market.
     
  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    upload_2018-10-17_10-46-12.png
    from an old (1947-1960s) ordnance survey map. it is called broadway market as there was a market there.
    upload_2018-10-17_10-49-24.png
    Hackney: Economic History | British History Online

    e2a: records show a market in ridley road from the late nineteenth century
     
  23. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    as i've said above ridley road is SEVERAL markets, it is not one entity. the covered markets shops on the south of ridley road is wholly separate from the street market. the shopping village is wholly separate from the street market. they are not the same thing. you are conflating the different things in ridley road.

    the council has in the past and may again in the future act against the market. no one's yet made reference to the attempt to cut off the electricity about 10 years ago: but the council say on their website:
    upload_2018-10-17_10-54-55.png
    Ridley Road Market | Hackney Council
    i see no reason to say 'this is a lie and they want to close it down through neglect'. what i think they desire is a market more like broadway market which caters to the sort of people the council particularly like. i don't see this as a good outcome. but it is really rather different to the one you suggest in the op.
     
  24. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    (ctd) the greater danger to the future of market may not be the council but the redevelopment of the shopping centre. not even a formal danger but an informal one, from the noise and disturbance that any redevelopment of the former goods yard area may create
    upload_2018-10-17_10-58-53.png
    the council's often very historically minded - as before so in the future - when there were proposals a few years back for the shopping centre the coal authority was on the list of bodies consulted.
     
    rutabowa likes this.
  25. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

    I guess if it was changed into something like broadway market then I would consider that as the market having been destroyed.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  26. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    the first market stall on the north side of the street outside the butchers is i believe run by the julian family, with the current incumbent being - iirc - the third to hold the stall. they have been there for many, many years. compare that to broadway market, where there is no chance of any of those stalls being passed down to subsequent generations. it's not only what would be sold, but who would be doing the selling.
     
    rutabowa likes this.
  27. rutabowa

    rutabowa LOSE IT

    ... and to go back to my OP, I reckon a campaign to "list" the market like what happened in brixon would probably have the result of hastening the arrival of a broadway-style market
     
  28. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    i think it would. i think that the cachet of working in a listed, an artisan market would attract an undesirable crowd whose interests would be opposed to those of the current stallholders and market patrons.
     

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