Demo against BNP conference in Blackpool

[tbaldwin]

ive changed my mind anyway, some people are scum

adolf hitler, jo stalin, peter sutcliffe, george galloway, fair enough theyre scum

but most teenage muggers are just damaged, lost kids whove made some bad choices

On one hand i would like to see much harder punishemnts for anti social crime...On the other i dont agree that all the people doing it should be written off as scum...
I grew up with plenty of people who did shit things and know of loads of kids who i saw growing up with very little parental involvement and boundaries who i knew would end up making a mess of their lives.
I know a couple of murderers and one young kid i used to play football with who was murdered a few years back.
I think that punishments need to be tougher but crime is driven by poverty and i dont just mean financial.

 

[The Black Hand]

It went really well - we got a great reaction from most of the locals and quite a few people joined on the march itself.

Another report from a libertarian source;

Anti Fascist Demo Blackpool

I have just reurned from the anti fascist demonstration in Blackpool, called because the bnp were holding what they claimed was a "national conference". The venue of their "coference" the Kimberley Hotel - Blackpool was kept a closely guarded secret. A demonstration called by local Trades Councils, Student Unions, and UAF was called in the Town Centre. There was a lively gathering, speakers, and leafletting. It was heartening to see the rednblack flags flying amongst the usual UAF placards.

The venue of the fascist "conference" was inevitably leaked and we set off to confront the bnp. A small group of people arrived before the main body of the march. At that point the venue was left reasonably easy to get to, with a very small police presence being some distance away. The small group of anti fascist exchanged unpleasantaries with the bnp security scum guarding their pathetic gathering at the doorway of the hotel. Eventually the fascist called the police and asked them to move us away. The police quoted Public Order Section 60, and advised anti fascists to remove head scarves, but with little success. (Though two female anti fascists were picked on by the police, pushed around, searched, and photographed.)

After a short time around 250 people from the Town Centre demo arrived outside the Kimberley Hotel and the fascists inside were forced to lock themselves in, and scuttle away from the windows, and doorways. The demo was noisy with the usual chants aimed at the fascist scum inside. The anti fascists outnumbered the bnp "delegates" by quite a margin. Only about 50 delegates managed to join Nick Griffin, and Blacpool bnp organiser Roy Greenwood, for this poor excuse for a national conference! The only shame is that the whole event wasn't shut down by militant anti fascism.

 

[JHE]

The only shame is that the whole event wasn't shut down by militant anti fascism.

Where were the crack troops of your International Brigade when you needed them? Were they still off killing Jews in the Middle East?

 

[The Black Hand]

Where were the crack troops of your International Brigade when you needed them? Were they still off killing Jews in the Middle East?

If you say so...

 

[JHE]

I was just asking, Brigadier.

I expect their whereabouts are very hush hush.

 

[The Black Hand]

I was just asking, Brigadier.

I expect their whereabouts are very hush hush.

Again, if you say so...

 

[JohnC]

Quote from smokedout
'...good action tho' not bad for a bunch of trots'

It was, though the 'trots' were mainly students, anarchists, trades unionists andpeople with no political affiliation whatever.

Quote from HarrisonSlade
'I loathe and despise the BNP to the hilt, but as the North West is one of the most likely places for Manefacturers closing down, hasn't this particular branch of the TUC got anything better to do than shout at a bunch of racists, and is it really a positive way of spending money given to them by their members, many who are probably wondering if they, themselves are going to be thrown on the scrapheap?'

Not sure where the money comes in but I would have thought shouting at racists a perfectly valid occupation for a trades unionist at any time.

Lancaster UAF has just received an email from the so-called football hooligans, the Blackpool Muckers, who were, according to the press, going to join with the BNP and 'hunt us down'.

'alright and would like to clear this up, the blackpool muckers have nout to
do with the bnp and it was put in the papers in blackpool that we was
joining up with them, this is untrue, keep up the good work, muckers admin.'

As I said, a good demo - and a lot of support coming in afterwards too. Very cheering.

 

[The Black Hand]

Quote from smokedout
'...good action tho' not bad for a bunch of trots'

It was, though the 'trots' were mainly students, anarchists, trades unionists andpeople with no political affiliation whatever.

Quote from HarrisonSlade
'I loathe and despise the BNP to the hilt, but as the North West is one of the most likely places for Manefacturers closing down, hasn't this particular branch of the TUC got anything better to do than shout at a bunch of racists, and is it really a positive way of spending money given to them by their members, many who are probably wondering if they, themselves are going to be thrown on the scrapheap?'

Not sure where the money comes in but I would have thought shouting at racists a perfectly valid occupation for a trades unionist at any time.

Lancaster UAF has just received an email from the so-called football hooligans, the Blackpool Muckers, who were, according to the press, going to join with the BNP and 'hunt us down'.

'alright and would like to clear this up, the blackpool muckers have nout to
do with the bnp and it was put in the papers in blackpool that we was
joining up with them, this is untrue, keep up the good work, muckers admin.'

As I said, a good demo - and a lot of support coming in afterwards too. Very cheering.

That's very good if true - though I would like to see the entire email (of course with any sensitive info/address/name taken out). Ta.

 

[audiotech]

But I am a scumbag. Doesn't mean I go around robbing OAPS

Thinking about it, I'm a scumbag too and I don't rob OAP's, or for that matter trash other people's motorcycles.

 

[JohnC]

Quote from Attica
'That's very good if true - though I would like to see the entire email (of course with any sensitive info/address/name taken out). Ta.'

That IS the email in its entirety except (of course) for the return address.

 

[The Black Hand]

Quote from Attica
'That's very good if true - though I would like to see the entire email (of course with any sensitive info/address/name taken out). Ta.'

That IS the email in its entirety except (of course) for the return address.

Very good then.

 

[Das Uberdog]

Uberdog why do you debate on here if it winds you up so much? What's the point of coming on here and throwing out so much abuse, threatening people and even comparing other left groups that you see as sectarian as as bad as fascists. Read grouchos post, you're being totally over the top. At worst you could say that what you see as sectarian groups are irrelevant to the working class. Having said that the SWP are irrelevant to 99.9% of the working class as well.

But surely you've got better things to do with your life than get so angry on a web board? Do something politically constructive, or if it's in your free time go out and enjoy yourself.

In terms of what you've said I think you've phrased it badly. The thing is with "chav culture" is that the term is used in a lot of ways, partly by the establishment and middle class liberals as a term of anti-working class abuse. Actually the BNP gets a fair amount of support in more middle class areas and from the petty bourgeois.

Also I do think you're on dodgy ground in terms of a stereotype of who would and wouldn't support the BNP.

Out of curiousity would you have as much scorn for rude boy culture as you would for chav culture?

I disagree, I think a mountain has been made out of a molehill and slander again has been used instead of coherant arguments and debate. If you're to look at what I actually said, I was infact revelling in the fact that the Chav stereotype showed itself to be false to me in practice and only fucking tosspot U75 addicts could have intperpreted it otherwise.

What's 'Rude Boy' culture?

 

[mk12]

was infact revelling in the fact that the Chav stereotype showed itself to be false to me

The stereotype that you seemed to agree with.

 

[JHE]

What's 'Rude Boy' culture?

It's vibrant and enriching, unlike chavscum kulcha.

 

[durruti02]

I disagree, I think a mountain has been made out of a molehill and slander again has been used instead of coherant arguments and debate. If you're to look at what I actually said, I was infact revelling in the fact that the Chav stereotype showed itself to be false to me in practice and only fucking tosspot U75 addicts could have intperpreted it otherwise.

you are doing it again .. i apologise for laughing at you but sorry you are coming across really badly .. you use words like 'yobbery', 'deviant behaviour', .. you do not know what rude boys are .. in fact i think maybe you should have a good think about this stuff .. especially shouting off at people who clearly have more experiance of the world than you ( and sorry to be patronising but .. )

p.s. my 17 year old son is not a chav but a load of his mates are .. they are undefinable in their characters/beliefs/politics/attitudes to ASB etc etc apart from a liking for burberry and the rest of uniform ...

as are pretty well all kids in all subcultures which are certainly not definable in the way you have done, which i am sorry to say again, comes across as m/c snobbery, that w/c people are by default anti muslim /racist /right wing etc ..

and this does rather give the game away

"Case in point, I've been punched enough times by people who look a certain way to have certain cultural stereotypes based mainly upon class. Not that I don't understand varying reasons for deviant social behaviour, or what society may deem as 'deviant' social behaviour, but if you deny that there is a 'chav' subculture in this country you're not only denying reality you're also going against the general social analysis of Britain's left as well."

like i say i do apologise for laughing at you but what you are saying is very nieve

 

[Das Uberdog]

Errr, so are you denying that there is a chavvish subculture which stereotypically is socially deviant?

Fuck Off. Seriously. Your entire argument has come down to claiming that I'm now a middle-class snob who presumes working class kids are gonna trash my stuff, despite very little experience with me or evidence from my posts at all.

Unless you were looking purposefully and semantically to pick apart my post looking for ways to distort it's meaning (which I suspect you were) then I think you'd respond the way most people I know respond when someone refers to a 'chav' stereotype. It's not me that doesn't seem to understand social terms, it's you - seeing no other possible explanation for a socialist even mentioning the existance of a chav subculture apart from their apparent possession of snobbish class stereotypes. It seems you also misinterpreted the commonly sociologically used term 'socially deviant behaviour' as an attack on chav or other 'socilly deviant cultures' when in fact it's nothing of the sort. If you want to understand something then you have to be able to talk about it - if you're able to avoid having to confront the reality of reactionism and yobbery amongst certain British subcultures then kudos to you, but in real terms that's more evidence of your own priveliged class position than mine.

 

[brasicritique]

I generally hear 'working class whites who join BNP : those who have been let down by the standard parties and have been conned into believing that the BNP are actually going to do something for them'

The pot calling the kettle it should read.. and have been conned into believing that the SWP are actually going to do something for them'

As much as i hate the BNP i would find it hard not to take a job in a death squad that wanted to kill the majority of you useless bottom burps!

 

[Spion]

Yes, I'm sure you would, Sebastian. You really should finish your homework and stop all this silly death squad business.

 

[durruti02]

Errr, so are you denying that there is a chavvish subculture which stereotypically is socially deviant?

Fuck Off. Seriously. Your entire argument has come down to claiming that I'm now a middle-class snob who presumes working class kids are gonna trash my stuff, despite very little experience with me or evidence from my posts at all.

Unless you were looking purposefully and semantically to pick apart my post looking for ways to distort it's meaning (which I suspect you were) then I think you'd respond the way most people I know respond when someone refers to a 'chav' stereotype. It's not me that doesn't seem to understand social terms, it's you - seeing no other possible explanation for a socialist even mentioning the existance of a chav subculture apart from their apparent possession of snobbish class stereotypes. It seems you also misinterpreted the commonly sociologically used term 'socially deviant behaviour' as an attack on chav or other 'socilly deviant cultures' when in fact it's nothing of the sort. If you want to understand something then you have to be able to talk about it - if you're able to avoid having to confront the reality of reactionism and yobbery amongst certain British subcultures then kudos to you, but in real terms that's more evidence of your own priveliged class position than mine.

i apologise for oversteppping the mark and you respond by going fck off .. nice

and will you take your sociology book out of your mouth/arse?? and listen to what i am saying .. it might help ... though i get the impression you are not good at doing that ..

i do not dispute there is a group of teenagers who have lazily been called chavs by the tabloids and feeble sociologists .. what i dispute is ANY implication that you can read political/social/ moral attitudes into that label or dress code

as i said a load of my sons mates fall into that so called sub culture and they are mainly just good kids following fashion as we all did ..