Demo against Army 'homecoming' march in luton

[_float_]

...The most criminal act that the coalition forces have done is destroy a country...

Saddam destroyed the country. There would have been only continued mass-repression and sanctions or a civil war that would have probably dwarfed the one that has occurred. There was nothing 'criminal' or morally wrong about invading in this situation and installing a democracy by force. Almost every democracy in existence has been established by force - by violently facing down the people who don't want it. It is only in the minds of la-la-land idealists that this is "evil".

 

[Knotted]

Saddam destroyed the country. There would have been only continued mass-repression and sanctions or a civil war that would have probably dwarfed the one that has occurred. There was nothing 'criminal' or morally wrong about invading in this situation and installing a democracy by force. Almost every democracy in existence has been established by force - by violently facing down the people who don't want it. It is only in the minds of la-la-land idealists that this is "evil".

You do have a point. The war put an end to the brutal regime of Saddam and the brutal regime of sanctions and airstrikes. It also gave the Iraqis a fighting chance against the invaders. However, I wouldn't support the war.

But on a broader point, I don't fetishise anti-military sloganeering. The crippling of Iraq is primarily economic but forced through militarily.

 

[winjer]

They were returning from Afghanistan.

Wrong:

Just before Christmas, the 2nd Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment, nicknamed The Poachers, returned from their second tour of Iraq in 2 years. During those tours the Battalion, which recruits from Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire, Lincolnshire, Leicestershire, Northamptonshire and Rutland, sacrificed much to improve the conditions in that war torn country, including, in 2006, the lives of two of its fine young soldiers. From what looked like a hopeless situation in late 2006, a transformation has since occurred in Basra, Iraq's second city. bringing peace and the first signs of prosperity.

At the heart of this transformation were The Poachers, who by working alongside the Iraqi Security Forces, brought order and peace to a City which lies at the very heart of that Nation's future. It was a huge achievement which, during the long hot summer of 2008, went largely unreported in the national media. This was a pity as, given the strategic nature of the Battalion's success, the soldiers deserved to be recognised for doing a difficult job, thoroughly professionally, on behalf of their Country.

Sadly my proud time as Commanding Officer of The Poachers is about to end. But as a last task, I am writing to rally support to show our soldiers that both their sacrifice and peacemaking efforts have been recognised by the communities from which they come. The opportunity to do this will be in March, when the Battalion has been invited to return from their base in Germany, in order to conduct four homecoming parades as follows:
[...]
10th March: Luton (1230 -1330 hrs) - Route: Park Street West, Flowers Way. Castle Street. George Street, Gordon Street, St George's Square (Inspection).

http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/regiments/11906.aspx

 

[_float_]

Wrong:

Fair enough.

 

[treelover]

I don't agree with what any fundamentalists sect preach, but I will defend their right to say what they believe and I will also do my utmost, when necessary, to defend them from physical attack.

Does that apply to all factions of fundamentalist bigots, such as Phelps and Co

 

[audiotech]

Does that apply to all factions of fundamentalist bigots, such as Phelps and Co

Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) of Topeka, Kansas a 'Primitive Baptist Church'. 'Who adhere to the teachings of the Bible, preach against all form of sin (e.g., fornication, adultery [including divorce and remarriage], sodomy), and insist that the sovereignty of God and the doctrines of grace be taught and expounded publicly to all men.'

I suspect their more provocative pickets would be a breach of public order in this country?

Would I defend their right to say what they believe? Yes.

Would I defend their bigotry? No.

Would I defend them from physical attack? Yes, but would probably give one a slap if provoked.

 

[ska invita]

The media argument is running along the lines :"dont criticise soldiers, they're just following orders - if you have a problem go to parliament".

If you're a soldier you should know your job, which means that it is quite likely that a state will send you into an illegal war, and that following orders is no excuse. I reckon its part of the job to know that you might have to refuse to fight.

As a result confronting soldiers who have fought in a war of agression is absolutley just.

It's amazing how spineless the anti-war movement is today.
[snip]
But I think that it is good that the nationalist patriotic bullshit was challenged in such a confrontational way.

I have A LOT of sympathy for this comment, however having backbone and being antagonistic isnt necessarily the best way forward. If troops marched down my little street on a homecoming parade I would be 'spineless' and curse under my breath, even though I would like to make a public demonstration of how I feel.

But check this out: my next-door neigbour but one became a squady - I knew him growing up and I knew he only did it cos he felt he had fuck all other options. I wouldnt feel right waving a placard in his face saying go to hell, but there is a way of engaging with soldiers, who are most often just poor working class lads, and encouraging them not to fight.

We need to get a lot more sophisticated in how we resist war - marching from A to B, waving placards, shouting and stamping our feet just doesnt achieve anything. We all know that. But what would it take to encourage a soldier not fight, or better still not join up?

I reckon if we are ever going to get past the point where the state keeps stealing our own for their wars we have to get to them well before they sign up. That means getting our politics dug in at the grass roots, fighting against army recruitment tactics (schools, traingin academies etc.), and that does take backbone. It also requires that the anti-war movement not be led by party officials, whose spineless leadership has defused so much of our collective anger and creativity. Lets hope the STWC runs out of funds soon...

 

[Frankie Jack]

Oh fuck off Ska.. the reason you can say what you like in this country is because we've fought for the right to an opinion.. As much as politicians try and make sure all are heard here in the UK..The Basic facts are we in the UK can say and are accountable for our thoughts and ideas..

My freedom as a Scottish Brit is to not have my basic countries rule changed to something I'm not comfortable with..

 

[Frankie Jack]

And I am an ex squaddy female and wife off that did 17 years.. total..

 

[Awesome Wells]

Oh fuck off Ska.. the reason you can say what you like in this country is because we've fought for the right to an opinion..

Really, that is so much bullshit.

 

[durruti02]

Oh fuck off Ska.. the reason you can say what you like in this country is because we've fought for the right to an opinion.. As much as politicians try and make sure all are heard here in the UK..The Basic facts are we in the UK can say and are accountable for our thoughts and ideas..

My freedom as a Scottish Brit is to not have my basic countries rule changed to something I'm not comfortable with..

.. fought who FJ? it was surely us the w/c and progressives who fought and died for those rights ..

not as i suspect you are implying the idea of a nation fighting other nations

 

[durruti02]

I have A LOT of sympathy for this comment, however having backbone and being antagonistic isnt necessarily the best way forward. If troops marched down my little street on a homecoming parade I would be 'spineless' and curse under my breath, even though I would like to make a public demonstration of how I feel.

But check this out: my next-door neigbour but one became a squady - I knew him growing up and I knew he only did it cos he felt he had fuck all other options. I wouldnt feel right waving a placard in his face saying go to hell, but there is a way of engaging with soldiers, who are most often just poor working class lads, and encouraging them not to fight.

We need to get a lot more sophisticated in how we resist war - marching from A to B, waving placards, shouting and stamping our feet just doesnt achieve anything. We all know that. But what would it take to encourage a soldier not fight, or better still not join up?

I reckon if we are ever going to get past the point where the state keeps stealing our own for their wars we have to get to them well before they sign up. That means getting our politics dug in at the grass roots, fighting against army recruitment tactics (schools, traingin academies etc.), and that does take backbone. It also requires that the anti-war movement not be led by party officials, whose spineless leadership has defused so much of our collective anger and creativity. Lets hope the STWC runs out of funds soon...

good post imho

 

[treelover]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/7943522.stm


Derby march past today, including two Scimitar Light Tanks!

handy Sun guide here

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/article2316299.ece

 

[audiotech]

'...proud to be British.'

 

[_float_]

Really, that is so much bullshit.

You aren't very hot on the history of the UK are you?