Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
why... why why why.
Defy ID lock on
- Thread starter moon23
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Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
exactly, but not quite only because the government has recently won the argument; its more that it really means very little to most people and will never mean much to most people. We are a modern social democracy, we do not hold traditional fears of the state like they do in other countries such as the US.
This is not becoming a mass campaign, and it can't be poked into being one either. If comrades have made the assessment that they can gain some prominence via campaigning on this, best of luck - i think its a bit of a time waste.
In Bloom i'm quite surprised you are in favour of it actually, your usually pretty brutal in your asessment of this kind of thing, more than me.
You do realize that NO2ID is now the largest civil liberties campaign in the country now in terms of membership and supporters?
How does your analysis of British attitudes towards ID cards square with when the British public reacted angrily against them after the war?
Imagine if all political activists shared the defeatist attitude as you propagate to the detriment of our shared liberties and freedoms. In terms of the numbers of active NO2ID groups across the country it’s already a mass campaign!
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
Oh no doubt, but i couldn't really give a shit about that.
I remember people being against the war, what's your evidence that a similar movement against ID cards happened?
Really? What is that based on mate?
october_lost
It's not hip any more...
Your not going to get a mass campaign against ID cards in the short or meduim term, thats just ridiculous, theres simply no basis for that. Its important people keep it ticking over but your asking for serious burnout if your expecting this to build up to something any time soon. The government as laid the foundation of this scheme with attacks against immigrants (part of the post education scheme and visa applicants process) which was a highly clever move, because immigration arguements are balanced in favour of draconian measures.
Now the only way this would be contentious, is if the public, knew that immigration controls were rubbish, blamed domestic terrorist attacks against the states overseas adventures and denied the validity of curtailing our rights to further our freedom. Right now conciousness is low, and so is direct action free from political party interference. I wouldn't vest too much time into this, but thats just an initial assessment.
Now the only way this would be contentious, is if the public, knew that immigration controls were rubbish, blamed domestic terrorist attacks against the states overseas adventures and denied the validity of curtailing our rights to further our freedom. Right now conciousness is low, and so is direct action free from political party interference. I wouldn't vest too much time into this, but thats just an initial assessment.
I agree a mass movement in terms of general public comming out on the streets or mass refusual won't happen untill the general public are made to have ID cards.
Bear in mind BALPA the airport Union are allready threating strike action and legal action against the cards as the first group of workers to be effected. I suppose it depends what we mean when we say mass movement.
I don't think you will see anything like the Iraq war protests, but unlike the war where the government had a professional army it could send in the ID cards scheme requires indivduals to comply with it. Even a much smaller number of people refusing would put an end to the scheme.
Fair enough if you don't care, but the size of a campaign in terms of members and supporters is surely and indicator of whether something is a mass movement, or whether it has the potential to become one.
The fact that they were scrapped in 1952 following widespread hatered of the things and people refusing to cooperate with the police in producing them.
The Iraq war saw one of the largest mass movements the country has ever seen, I don’t expect the movement against ID cards to grow to anything in quite that size. However whereas the government could simply choose to send in a professional army against the wishes of the people, it can’t force all the people to comply with ID cards. In terms of ability to stop the scheme you would only require a far smaller number of people to refuse ID cards.
My understanding of what a mass campaign is. The sheer size of active NO2ID groups across the country makes it massive. If you are talking about massive protests then no it isn’t a mass campaign, but protest is only one form of campaigning and something that is far less effective then it used to be.
Dic Penderyn
Newport Civic Pride!
Bang on. That's why No Borders South Wales have been protesting against ID cards.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What indications do you have as to the size of NO2ID then?
I look on their website and see the number of local groups they have, also there always seems lot's going on in the newsletter from them i'm signed upto. More so than a lot of other campaigns.
- It wasn't just the Anarchist Federation
- The AF does not have spokespeople, and the quote in that article claiming to be from such a spokesperson is in fact a composite of a few things somebody who happened to be involved said
- At no point did anybody involved in the action attempt to enter the building, consequently it is wrong to say that they were "refused entry"
NB - You don't need to say "Note" if you've already written NB. Pulling people up on typos makes you look like a nob, making stupid mistakes while you're doing it makes you look like a stupid nob.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well, it seems to me then to be a 'mass movement' that's not on many peoples radar.
My local (apparently moribund) group has this welcoming and not at all up their own arses blurb:
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
full of lulz
Well, it seems to me then to be a 'mass movement' that's not on many peoples radar.
My local (apparently moribund) group has this welcoming and not at all up their own arses blurb:
I think Bristol NO2ID were on the news not that long ago burning a mock ID card, hardly very moribund.
http://latestnews.virginmedia.com/news/video/2008/11/06/id_cards_the_burning_issue
I suppose though it depends how bothered you are about allowing the government complete control over your identity. I care a lot about ID cards and governments holding large registers of people. If you don't really care then you probably don't pay much attention to groups like NO2ID.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, that was their first activity in 2 and a half years and their 3rd ever in their 3 year history.
And please, stop your finger-wagging 'i'm more activist than you therefore you can't criticise anyhting i do ever' nonsense. I helped set up the first anti-ID card group in bristol, well before NO2ID, so i give a shit, thanks.
Any comment on the bristol NO2ID intro blurb btw, or do you think this sort of thing is acceptable?
I'd run a mile away from such pomposity and up-own-arseness.
Sorry I wasn't saying that you don't care about ID cards, but suggesting that many people probably don't care enough about it hence why in a public perception it may not seem like a mass campaign. What I’m trying to say is that there is a mass campaign against ID cards formed up of NO2ID, Defy ID, No Borders and many other independent groups and political parties that are opposed to ID cards. There are also a large number of councils that oppose ID cards and have motions against them. So in terms of general opposition I personally would define it as a mass campaign.
I don't think describing the make-up of the group as being profesionals and students is *that* pompous, it might just be factualy correct. However I think it might put some people off and for that reason it is probaly not a very good thing to say. Why don't you drop them an email and say you found it off putting and they could learn from their mistake. Not all activist are probaly as savy as you seem to be about how things come accross to others though, and I suspect this was put up in good faith.
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