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Defend the SSP! Oppose a split!

nwnm said:
the position of the Socialist Workers Platform is available in this bulletin -

http://www.swp.org.uk/resources/istbulletin8.pdf

... an open, democratic socialist party is the only real alternative.

I'd be more interested in taking note of the SWP's views if they actually practised this in England. See: http://www.respectpartyforum.org/

Given the SWP's practice in Respect, there are too many crocodile tears in this for me to stomach, not to mention a predilection for a dangerous cult of personality.
 
Fisher_Gate said:
Not really - one is a sub-category of the other. Defamation is lowering someone's reputation. It is divided into two sorts - in permanent form, eg a book, newspaper, film, etc it is called Libel; in temporary form it is called Slander, eg typically spoken at a gathering but not recorded. Slander is harder to prove and and damage from it is more likely to be temporary too, so courts are not inclined to treat it as a very serious issue. Libel can be repeated many times to very large audiences. Most defamation cases involve a libel rather than a slander so the terms are very much intertwined.
Possibly what Fedayn means is that this case is being heard in Scotland. Defamation falls into the class of the law of obligations called Delict in Scotland. There is no distinction between spoken or written defamation, and the terms "slander" and "libel" are not used in Scots law.
 
Fisher_Gate said:
You are wrong on the law of libel. Truth is a dangerous defence as it is hard to prove and if you cannot the damages are increased if you unsuccessfully use it:

Oh I see, the defense don't have to prove that every little thing that said was true - they just have to prove that on the balance of probablities what they said was substancially true. OK, so Sheridans fucked then...

Scotland's biggest selling paper has it on the front page again...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/t...n-swingers-club-with-msp-tommy-name_page.html

Other papers have similar. This is gonna be in the headlines till it's over...
 
John Grean said:
""Speaking as an SSP member i'm a tad confused as to why an article entitled 'Defend the SSP! Oppose a split!' seems to be spending most of it's time venting spleen at Galloway.""

I think the SSP should split and run a cleaning operation on the radical feminist freaks who have infiltrated it's ranks...not to mention the shit-thick pigs and spooks.

Anyone with half a brain could see it coming.


No shit. It seems that the lunatics have taken over the asylum at the moment.... It also seems like some people in the SSP exec were secretly taking notes in private meetings and giving those notes to the press to damage Sheridan, I think the News of the World have got most of their information from senior members who've stabbed Tommy in the back. They don't seem to realise that Tommy Sheridan's profile was what got the other five elected and without Tommy the party is fucked...
 
Innit, what is is with the far left, it just seems to have a culture of infighting and backstabbing, does it attract a certain kind of person who are prone to this, why don't the greens (who have some fairly radical people) have these issues?

One long slow car crash the far left isn't it? It's a lesson they never seem to learn.
 
treelover said:
Innit, what is is with the far left, it just seems to have a culture of infighting and backstabbing, does it attract a certain kind of person who are prone to this, why don't the greens (who have some fairly radical people) have these issues?

I dunno, perhaps its because most of the Greens goals are realistic and therefore the Greens are able to be a little pragmatic, compromise, put certain issues and differences aside and unite around a common set of goals and work to make some of the changes they want to see happen? Yeah, I reckon it's got something to do with achievable realistic goals giving people something to unite behind, whilest unrealisitc 'pie in the sky' goals reduce the 'party' to an obessive little discussion group who's members end up blaiming each other for the organisations inevitable failure then start fighting and backstabbing.
 
Is the question not more why Tommy Sheridan's cult of personality was allowed to continue for so long? Not an SSP member but it certainly looks from the outside that Tommy and everyone else knew he was the best known person in the SSP and people were elected on the strength of that so Tommy was allowed to get away with whatever he wanted for far too long. As I said, just an observation so interested to see what SSP people think.

BTW, there's a short piece in today's Guardian about the latest from the trial. It all sounds really sordid and unpleasant. :(
 
Sue said:
JohnGrean, care to elaborate?


I was in the SSP years ago when I was young and didn't know any better. At that time radical feminists were proposing we twin constituencies and make one candidate male and the other female. Branches had to send gender balance to the conference, a branch was excluded from having a delgate once because it didn't have any female members. When you asked why you couldn't all just vote for the best person for the job the answer was that because we were subconscienously sexists and would be biased against women without even knowing we were doing it.

I think Tommy is claiming that some of the people who did that shit secretly took 'notes' in private meetings about his personal life then gave those 'notes' to the press...


I said it before and I'll say it again, the far left is one long slow car crash...
 
Sue said:
Is the question not more why Tommy Sheridan's cult of personality was allowed to continue for so long? Not an SSP member but it certainly looks from the outside that Tommy and everyone else knew he was the best known person in the SSP and people were elected on the strength of that so Tommy was allowed to get away with whatever he wanted for far too long. As I said, just an observation so interested to see what SSP people think.

A good assessment. There is some evidence that TS was getting away with things like this back to the eighties and that Militant was covering it up. Its worth having a look at Kevin Williamsons 'scottish patient' blog and looking for some posts from someone going under the name 'Mary Whitewash' who sems to have been around at the time. They are a few weeks old but should be there somewhere.
 
tollbar said:
There is some evidence that TS was getting away with things like this back to the eighties and that Militant was covering it up.

A quite bizarre statement from you there, tollbar.

Some anonymous contributor, at a time when any number of people have an interest in "getting" Sheridan, posts some quite extraordinary allegations about him on a blog comment feature. You then describe those allegations as being "like" the things Sheridan is currently accused of, which they are not. And describe the anonymous allegations as "evidence", which again they are not. Please think before you type next time.
 
Nigel Irritable said:
A quite bizarre statement from you there, tollbar.

Some anonymous contributor, at a time when any number of people have an interest in "getting" Sheridan, posts some quite extraordinary allegations about him on a blog comment feature. You then describe those allegations as being "like" the things Sheridan is currently accused of, which they are not. And describe the anonymous allegations as "evidence", which again they are not. Please think before you type next time.

The poster makes detailed allegations about TS relationships with women in Militant in the mid 80s. It also makes allegations about a cover up by Militant of his activities. My point is that if you believe that Sheridans activities whilst a member of the SSP were covered up, it could well be that an established practice was being followed.

I suspect that I know the identity of the OP and if so it is someone who was a member of Militant at the time.
 
I know what the allegations are, thanks. I am, believe it or not able to read. The point remains that they are (a) anonymous allegations not evidence of any kind and (b) not about the same kind of thing as the NoTW allegations. They are in fact much more serious allegations - or would be if there was any evidence for them, which once more there is not.

Now seriously, tollbar, you should know better than to be spreading that kind of muck around.
 
Thanks to an article in today's Times, a stablemate of the News of the Screws, I finally know what it was that the News of the Screws claimed about Sheridan - and I also know that the NotS has credible witnesses to support its account.

My prurient interest, aroused by mild frustration at not knowing what everyone else was supposedly talking about, is now gone - and, as usual with such tittle-tattle, I'm left bored by it.

Of course, if Sheridan had not been mug enough to sue the News of the Screws, I would still not know.

How the fuck did Sheridan think it was a good idea to take this legal action? The man's not a fool, is he?
 
On reflection, I'm being too kind. The man's obviously a bloody fool.

I don't care if he's a bloody 'swinger' - I'll laugh at him, but I don't care - and I bet there are millions up there in Scotchland who don't care either. Yet he insists on drawing everyone's attention to the story and makes himself a laughing stock. Daft sod!
 
tollbar said:
The poster makes detailed allegations about TS relationships with women in Militant in the mid 80s. It also makes allegations about a cover up by Militant of his activities. My point is that if you believe that Sheridans activities whilst a member of the SSP were covered up, it could well be that an established practice was being followed.

I suspect that I know the identity of the OP and if so it is someone who was a member of Militant at the time.


So, what your'e accusing Sheridan of is having sex with some Militant girls in the 80's. Well I agree he must be an idiot because most feminists I've met are pig-ugly dogs! He deserves a round of applause for being able to spread some sexual pleasure to these ladies, rather than being condemned!

Additionally, who really cares if Sheridan likes to "swing" (not withstanding his good lady wife who he may have an agreement with). Unless, Carolyn Leckie and Rosie Kane are jealous!

Roll on 2007 and the collapse of the SSP.
 
John Grean said:
So, what your'e accusing Sheridan of is having sex with some Militant girls in the 80's. Well I agree he must be an idiot because most feminists I've met are pig-ugly dogs! He deserves a round of applause for being able to spread some sexual pleasure to these ladies, rather than being condemned!

Additionally, who really cares if Sheridan likes to "swing" (not withstanding his good lady wife who he may have an agreement with). Unless, Carolyn Leckie and Rosie Kane are jealous!

Roll on 2007 and the collapse of the SSP.

I seem to remember you getting booted off the ukln for sexist postings.

Nothings changed I see. Now back to the BNP playpen, theres a good boy.
 
I suspect most people on here don't really care what Tommy Sheridan's sexual predilictions are -- I know I certainly don't (and in fact I know now far more about them that I would ever want to). It may be sordid and nasty but it's between him and his wife. However if any of this is true, he was obviously an utter fool to pursue a libel action -- he must've known this would come out unless for some reason he thought it wouldn't and he could get away with it.

The thing that is more worrying is that in the brief report in yesterday's paper, mention was made of various people involved in the 'fun and games' being SSP members/workers. That puts a bit more of a potentially dodgy slant on things -- was there any coercion on TS's part? Even if not, it's still pretty dubious for someone in his position to get involved with something where it could look like he was taking advantage of the power imbalance thing.
 
Sue said:
I suspect most people on here don't really care what Tommy Sheridan's sexual predilictions are -- I know I certainly don't (and in fact I know now far more about them that I would ever want to). It may be sordid and nasty but it's between him and his wife. However if any of this is true, he was obviously an utter fool to pursue a libel action -- he must've known this would come out unless for some reason he thought it wouldn't and he could get away with it.

The thing that is more worrying is that in the brief report in yesterday's paper, mention was made of various people involved in the 'fun and games' being SSP members/workers. That puts a bit more of a potentially dodgy slant on things -- was there any coercion on TS's part? Even if not, it's still pretty dubious for someone in his position to get involved with something where it could look like he was taking advantage of the power imbalance thing.

Got a link to the story you're talking about?

I don't know why Tommy thought it was a good idea to sue, but we're now witnessing the split and collapse of a political party with 6 MSP's... When George Galloway sued newspapers, did you think it did him any harm? Perhaps Tommy thought he'd have Galloway's success, although as far as I understand it there was never a shread of evidence on George Galloway whilest the news of the world have people testifying against Tommy Sheridan (so they clearly do have some evidence).
 
tollbar said:
I seem to remember you getting booted off the ukln for sexist postings.

Nothings changed I see. Now back to the BNP playpen, theres a good boy.


Interesting you should mention that!

Maybe you should go back and check out a few of my predictions back in Feb 2006.

have they come true?

SSP crisis over feminism, rise in support of the BNP, Respect coalition (and SWP) in crisis!

Are you a computer hacker or a state agent?
 
John Grean said:
Interesting you should mention that!

Maybe you should go back and check out a few of my predictions back in Feb 2006.

have they come true?

SSP crisis over feminism, rise in support of the BNP, Respect coalition (and SWP) in crisis!

Are you a computer hacker or a state agent?

The SSP crisis is over feminism..? Really? I thought it was about Tommy Sheridan getting up to all sorts and then being stupid enough to claim he wasn't when he was found out.

As to your other predictions, fucking hell. How did you ever come up with them?
 
Sue said:
The SSP crisis is over feminism..? Really? I thought it was about Tommy Sheridan getting up to all sorts and then being stupid enough to claim he wasn't when he was found out.

As to your other predictions, fucking hell. How did you ever come up with them?

Today's Daily Record (Scotland's biggest selling paper, it out sells the Sun North of the Border)... http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/t...headline=tommy-snorted-cocaine-name_page.html

I think this story is just bullshit; see, I was in the SSP in the North East (that was before I knew better).

Anyway, I actually wrote to say that the rise of feminism in the SSP did have a lot to do with the internal split and I believe it was the feminist fraction that gave details to the press and kept secret notes from private meetings... Some of the feminists in the SSP are very, very radical.
 
Sue said:
JohnGrean, care to elaborate?


Yes. See the following from BBC website.


>Frances Curran has been involved in socialist and community campaigns for >more than 20 years.....

>Ms Curran joined other MSPs in backing calls for a ban on adult pornography >in Scotland.


If this isn't a feminist freak I don't know what is!!!
 
tollbar said:
I seem to remember you getting booted off the ukln for sexist postings. Nothings changed I see. Now back to the BNP playpen, theres a good boy.
I should have asked this earlier.

Tollbar, are you saying that John Grean is BNP?
 
Fullyplumped said:
I should have asked this earlier.

Tollbar, are you saying that John Grean is BNP?


Seemingly not and I somewhat overreacted, although some of his comments might lead you to that conclusion, but he is rather well known to the left in a certain English midlands town for his misogynistic views.
 
tollbar said:
Seemingly not and I somewhat overreacted, although some of his comments might lead you to that conclusion, but he is rather well known to the left in a certain English midlands town for his misogynistic views.
Thanks - your reaction was quite understandable.
 
John Grean said:
Yes. See the following from BBC website.


>Frances Curran has been involved in socialist and community campaigns for >more than 20 years.....

>Ms Curran joined other MSPs in backing calls for a ban on adult pornography >in Scotland.


If this isn't a feminist freak I don't know what is!!!

She's a total feminist freak, as are most of the female SSP MSP's. I think some of the MSP's only got to be first on the party list (that was what got them elected) because the SSP uses forced gender balance. Half the lists have to start with a man and the other half with a woman. Then it goes man woman man woman.

Incidently Tommy's sex case is on the front pages again, I saw someone with a copy of the scottish sun with it on the bus this morning. Here's the biggest selling papers coverage.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/t...while-his-wife-was-out-at-work-name_page.html
 
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